Adrenaline Rush + Heroism/Bloodlust?

[Avengerx]

I was under the impression that popping Adrenaline Rush under Heroism/Bloodlust is a bad idea due energy capping and such. Now I've been rereading the EJ rogue section yesterday and it said somewhere that popping AR while some big damage cooldown,potion,trinket or Hero!!! is up is a good idea. Did this line just got left there from some old version or the added haste on swing timers outweights the energy capping things?

[Speaker]

Well, the best time to pop trinkets+potions are during lust and the best time to pop AR is during trinkets+potions. Comboing all of these together will yield the best results in terms of dps, despite energy capping.

But, the best way to use AR is to just pop it anytime it is off cooldown and you got 20 seconds of uninterrupted dps time. Popping it every cooldown will let you use it more times during an encounter, unless you know there are moments where you will need the extra damage so you save it. The only time this really happens in DS is during Spine when burning the corruption to remove the plates.

[Soisoisoi]

You're going to be Energy capping with either Hero OR AR, using them both is just overkill so you might as well just save it?

[Mascotte]

I'd say time your AR so that everything you do during Lust will reduce the cooldown of your AR again so you can use AR, Lust, AR.
Using them at the same time feels like a waste.

[qtbootie]

The thing is the haste stacks in a way that makes it worth it to use during heroism.

[Avengerx]

I'd say time your AR so that everything you do during Lust will reduce the cooldown of your AR again so you can use AR, Lust, AR.
Using them at the same time feels like a waste.

Yeah, this is what I usually do , or try to do at least, but I don't know if the combined haste of lust and AR wouldn't outweight this.

[Deleted]

Pop AR during BL only if this will allow you to use it one more time in the fight.

[Synexlol]

AR is a cooldown that you don't want to use with Bloodlust, as long as you won't lose an application by postponing it. Ideally you want to use your pot about 8 seconds before BL ends then pop AR just as BL ends.

[KidCanuck]

If I recall correctly, during BL / Hero you use AR for the increased swing speed, since you'll likely have all of your trinkets / pots etc lined up anyways. Energy capping is only really bad when you're not GCD capping anyway. And as people have said in this thread, you probably get enough finishers off during BL / Hero to have AR's cooldown quite low.

[Firatha]

If I recall correctly, during BL / Hero you use AR for the increased swing speed, since you'll likely have all of your trinkets / pots etc lined up anyways. Energy capping is only really bad when you're not GCD capping anyway. And as people have said in this thread, you probably get enough finishers off during BL / Hero to have AR's cooldown quite low.

This is totally correct even with the capping using it for the haste during hero is still the best however I never thought about how all the extra eviscerates during hero would help with the cooldown of AR.

[Synexlol]

If I recall correctly, during BL / Hero you use AR for the increased swing speed, since you'll likely have all of your trinkets / pots etc lined up anyways. Energy capping is only really bad when you're not GCD capping anyway. And as people have said in this thread, you probably get enough finishers off during BL / Hero to have AR's cooldown quite low.

The problem is that most of AR's value comes from the energy regen, not the swing speed, and using it during Bloodlust will make it's increased energy regeneration almost useless. It's still better to use AR after Bloodlust from what I can see, as long as you won't lost an application of AR by postponing it. Stacking AR's attack speed with Bloodlust will not outweigh what you lose by 'wasting' the energy regeneration component. Also, you should use your pot during AR at Deep Insight (or in the last 10 seconds of BL if you plan to chain AR after), using your pot during Bloodlust isn't always the best option.

[Zik3l]

We all hate energy capping, but Heroism/Lust is usually used in one of 2 ways;

At the start for a burn encounter (Think double lusting H Ultrax). At which point getting your CD's on Cooldown will help fit another AR into the encounter, or at the end for a burn (think H Zon'ozz).

As such in both circumstances you will need to use AR during it to either get another AR Later in the fight (because waiting 40 seconds for the Hero to come down so you can AR is an utter waste - and Hero at the start usually is 5-10 seconds after), or to burn the hell out of the boss because there won't be much time for an AR After the hero anyway.

[Maelstrom51]

Don't ever save AR more than a few seconds. Sure its best if you don't overlap with hero, but the uptime you lose on AR is simply not worth it. When this does happen its an excellent time to pop a potion, though.

[Tekloth]

Considering that combat caps with either Hero or AR alone, combining them wouldn't make that much of a difference energy-wise. It's more about that 20% increased melee speed which stacks with Heroism that you use it for during Hero. Besides, you'll get a massive chunk of AR's cooldown off during this period as well, so there's no point in not using it during Hero really.

[Tomia]

I have the same question.
What will max out damage, Using both AR and Lust together?
Using AR and Lust at diferent times?

AR and Lust does stack and gives massive melee damage. WE all know melee it the top on recount for combat rogue and it will result to a BIG burst.
Using AR and Lust at diferent times will give us High stable damage on long fights.
Heres another question. Example its a 5 min fight. Will that burst result to do more damage than a high stable damage?

People are forgeting we are talking about PvE and it last for about 3-5 min, madness 10min. I've read the other reply and there only basis is burst. Yeh we all can do big burst by using everthing all at once. What I want to know is What will do more damage on WHOLE boss encounter.

Anyone knows the answer?

[Tekloth]

For simplicity's sake, let's say that your average dps without AR or Hero is 30k, then let's assume that using either one alone would increase your dps by 10k each. In reality the numbers are way off from these but I'm just trying to keep it simple. I'll also ignore any proc mechanics, which will influence the total numbers.

Heroism lasts 45 seconds, that's 45 seconds during which you dish out 40k dps.
AR lasts 20 seconds, that's 20 seconds during which you dish out 40k dps.

Those 2 chained would result in 65 seconds of 40k dps.
If combined they'd result in 20 seconds if 50k dps and 25 seconds of 40k dps (of course the melee haste stacking would increase the number during AR, I'm just keeping it as simple as possible).

Let's assume a 6 minute fight;

Using no cooldowns:
30k dps, 10.800.000 damage done.

Using Hero+AR:
50k dps for 20 seconds, 40k dps for 25 seconds, 30k dps for 5min 15sec, 11.450.000 damage done.

Chaining Hero and AR:
40k dps for 65 seconds, 30k dps for 4min 55 sec, 11.450.000 damage done.

The numbers end up the same, when ignoring all proc mechanics, potions and attack speed mechanics (AR stacking with Hero). I'd say that it'd be more beneficial to use AR during Hero because you can line up pots and possibly trinkets if you're aware of the ICD left on it to proc during the AR+Hero period, which, with your increased melee haste, will most likely end up in a lot more white damage done than you'd get with chaining AR with Hero.

[Tomia]

AH ok thanks, your numbers are accurate right?
Ok, I'll start using it off cd with lust or not. Since you said the numbers are the same.

[Deleted]

Use it whenever its rdy regardless if there is hero up soon or later
dont let somebody tell u different
always stack haste effects

[Tekloth]

AH ok thanks, your numbers are accurate right?
Ok, I'll start using it off cd with lust or not. Since you said the numbers are the same.

Yup, the numbers as calculated are accurate. But they do not, in any way, represent any real numbers you'd get in a fight, but are just bare assumptions. For example the stacking melee haste from AR + Hero will increase the DPS more than by just adding up the DPS increase of both, which I have done on my calculations.

I'll even go as far as break down the damage portions for you;

Hero + AR, 20 seconds - 1.000.000 damage done
Hero, 25 seconds - 1.000.000 damage done
Avg DPS, 5min 15 sec - 9.450.000 damage done
Equals - 11.450.000 damage done

Chaining Hero and AR, 65 seconds - 2.600.00 damage done
Avg DPS, 4min 55sec - 8.850.00 damage done
Equals - 11.450.000 damage done

[Tomia]

Ok thanks, those numbers is enough to close the tread since thats the answer everyone is looking for LoL