is this how mages are pulling redic numbers on Ultraxion?

[conjorer]

After several hours of testing at a dummy and in Firelands, I have come up with a way to nearly double the strenth of ignite. I will refer to this as Ignite Stacking. Similar to Ignite Munching, but with the opposite effect.

What is ignite stacking?

Ignite stacks when a target is crit twice (or more via Dragonwrath) before ignite ticks (2 seconds) the ignite's strenth will stack and be nearly twice as strong. Two hits at the same time do not (from my observation) cause ignite to stack.

The idea here is hold onto a Hot Streak Proc until a Fireball Crits, then cast the Pyroblast. Please note that you MUST be close to the boss for this to work. If it is a boss like Ragnaros the delay time is greater than 2 seconds and only by luck can this be obtained.

What if I don't believe this "Guromin" guy?

Try it for yourself! Go to a target dummy and cast fireball until it crits a few times and take note of the size of the Ignite from that crit. Do the same with Pyroblast. Afterwards attempt to obtain a stacking ignite by casting a normal rotation, holding Hot Streak until a fireball crits and unleashing it. If it crits, and the timing was good the ignite will be noticeably larger than anything obtainable otherwise. For me, I got about a 12k ignite from a normal Fireball crit and about a 14k ignite from a Pyroblast crit. With ignite stacking I was able to get anywhere from a 17-27k ignite.

Why does the value vary so much?

I don't know... My best guess is that the closer the two crits are together the more powerful the ignite is (but they can't hit at exactly the same time).

I can't get them to hit close enough together because of GCD lockout. Help!

Instead of chaining Fireballs, cast one and wait to see if it crits. The second you know it crit, cast Pyrobast. The second you see it hit, but not crit continue with another Fireball. If you keep chaining Fireballs. Don't ever waste a Hot Streak Proc! If the duration is under 3 seconds use it, don't lose it.

If you have questions feel free to post them. If you just want to leave a comment to say it helped please do so because it helps with my data collection. If it did not work, I'm eager to hear what caused problems or where I wasn't clear

-Guromin

P.S. 107th post. It took my guild 107 attempts to kill Heroic Rhyolith (one of my least favorite bosses).

http://www.paragon.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3154

is holding on to hot streaks to make this happen constantly, due to the nature of RNG, worth it or not? or does it depend on the fight?

[RaoBurning]

http://www.paragon.fi/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3154

is holding on to hot streaks to make this happen constantly, due to the nature of RNG, worth it or not? or does it depend on the fight?

I'm not a fire expert, but this sounds like more of a bug than anything else. Also, what is "redic"?

[Deleted]

You realise "rolling ignite" (what the quote you put in the OP) is an intended mechanic, right...?

How else do you expect Ignite to work? Other than individual debuffs for every spell crit, of course.

[Heilige]

You realise "rolling ignite" (what the quote you put in the OP) is an intended mechanic, right...?

How else do you expect Ignite to work? Other than individual debuffs for every spell crit, of course.

Blizzard destroyed true rolling ignites ages ago...

[JohnnyQuest]

For me, I got about a 12k ignite from a normal Fireball crit and about a 14k ignite from a Pyroblast crit. With ignite stacking I was able to get anywhere from a 17-27k ignite.

12k + 14k = 26k. Magic?

This isn't some kind of revelation... this is how Ignite works.

If we assume that this Fireball and this Pyroblast will always crit, then the Ignite bank is always going to be 26k, regardless of whether they are applied to the target individually or at the same time.

Saving Hot Streaks that can get overwritten is a DPS loss.
Hard casting Pyroblast is a DPS loss.

Eedit: Ok, so I missing something phenominally breakthrough here, or that Paragon thread has the world's worst mages in. How do so many people not know how Ignite works?

[Kurzior]

It is ... and it isn't.

Fire mages get a lot of damage out of ignite, but only when its ticking (obviously). Not using a instant cast when you could is a dps loss, because you've effectively cheated yourself out of a chance to proc ignite. Secondly, pyro applies its own dot, so holding onto procs will actually lower your uptime on the pyroblast dot, losing dps.

However (and its a big one), doing this selectively during the fight can be beneficial. By chaining 2 large crits together, you CAN get a larger ignite by refreshing the pool before the tick. You can then use combustion with a very large ignite rather than just an average one. Its very similar to the ignite stacking trick from alysrazor that allowed fire mages to do so well on that fight. The reason its so effective is that fire mages with the 4-piece tier 13 bonus get about 2x the combustion usage that non-set mages get during the fight, meaning this strategy, done correctly, really adds up over the course of the fight.

[Heilige]

12k + 14k = 26k. Magic?

This isn't some kind of revelation... this is how Ignite works.

If we assume that this Fireball and this Pyroblast will always crit, then the Ignite bank is always going to be 26k, regardless of whether they are applied to the target individually or at the same time.

Saving Hot Streaks that can get overwritten is a DPS loss.
Hard casting Pyroblast is a DPS loss.

Eedit: Ok, so I missing something phenominally breakthrough here, or that Paragon thread has the world's worst mages in. How do so many people not know how Ignite works?

You're assuming they land consecutively before the first tick can go off. If the first tick goes off it overwrites.

[JohnnyQuest]

However (and its a big one), doing this selectively during the fight can be beneficial. By chaining 2 large crits together, you CAN get a larger ignite by refreshing the pool before the tick. You can then use combustion with a very large ignite rather than just an average one. Its very similar to the ignite stacking trick from alysrazor that allowed fire mages to do so well on that fight. The reason its so effective is that fire mages with the 4-piece tier 13 bonus get about 2x the combustion usage that non-set mages get during the fight, meaning this strategy, done correctly, really adds up over the course of the fight.

Sure, fishing for Ignites for a big Combustion is certainly something to consider. But that's not the tone I got from the quoted thread. It seems me this is a suggestion for bigger Ignites for the full length of a fight. As if a bigger Ignite is the big goal to aim for. Taking Combustion and the DPS loss from holding onto procs out of the equation, getting a "bigger" Ignite isn't more or less DPS ove the fight than having them applied separately. The same amount of Ignite damage gets done to the target regardless.

[thehordemage]

people didn't know this? this was evident long ago and then alysrazor proved it even more

[Aantu]

In case anyone was in doubt, holding a Pyroblast proc while waiting for another fireball crit is not a good idea.

[Viggers]

i think he is saying to do this only when combustion is off cooldown, since getting a good combustion can really make or break your dps

[ezmage]

I really thought that Ignite mechanics was common knowledge among the Mage community.
Highest ignite I have ever gotten without special mechanics was in the 100k-110k range in icc on Saurfang.
This was achieved with how the dot mechanics worked back then since it didn't extend for another tick when it reapplied the dot and just stacked on top of each other.
Since 4.0 where ignite worked like all other dots where it extended to a third tick when it reapplied making it so you have to have 3 crits before the first tick instead of 2.

Disclaimer: Was a long time since I stopped playing and it is possible that I have forgotten something.

[Aantu]

You can't stop ignite from ticking by refreshing it.

[Yrrildur]

The OP is indeed stating how Ignite works. The suggestion he makes to actually get these big ignites will result in a dps loss. As was stated before, one should always cast Pyroblast if you get a proc. Because the direct Pyroblast dmg is greater then the Ignite. Having a big ignite is important for Combustion obviously. So if you want to have a big Ignite simply wait for a Hot Streak and /pray that the next instant Pyro will crit as well.

[Hockeyhacker]

... Also, what is "redic"?

Ridiculous short handed.

As for the question asked by the OP I am not sure, but my guess is certain strategies are dependent on certain gear to be stable enough to play as so it probably comes down to if the chance at the RNG is high enough to gamble or not which in turn comes down to your gear and procs and buffs.

[Aantu]

Maybe I used the wrong words, but how do you explain the Alysrazor encounter for a fire mage back when Firelands was still current content? I know your previous guildmate logoz had his guide up on both here and Battle.net, maybe he chose some different words but It basically came down to the same thing. As your casttime was under 1 sec, you had 100% crit and you were <5 yards away from boss you were able to stack your ignite.

EDIT: You probably know it a lot better then me, just want it explained.

The Alysrazor trick was to manipulate rolling ignites. Rolling ignites happen because of the way the game calculates ignites. If you crit with a spell, the game will check your character to make sure you have the right talent for ignite. This process takes about .5 seconds. If you are able to sandwich an ignite tick in between a crit and a refresh (aka if you get a crit .5 to .2 seconds before ignite ticks) the ignite will tick without losing any damage, because it will roll back to the value when the crit occurred.

On Alyrsrazor you could do this by standing still and chaining pyroblasts. Since the gcd is 1 second, this would guarantee each pyroblast to hit at the same time, just right before ignite ticked, as long as you didn't move. Distance had nothing to do with it.

[mrgreenthump]

Define ridiculous.. I mean I pulled 52k last week, but thats only because I got such crazy gear(401 ilevel then) and get DI and Tricks, that its what am supposed to pull on nuke heavy fights.. But mostly its all abt rng and timing of your crits and procs, there is nothing to it really its just how crazy fire scales from the new gear and after people get the insignia the dps just shoots off to the sky^^

[Tomia]

I dont know why you pull such low numbers ~,..,~
Im 393 Equiped iL, NO legendary, but I did 53k dps as a Firemage on ultraxion. I also do 65-70k burst with pots+combustion. I dont know what rolling ignites are and I dont know what you guys are talking about. All I did was use pyro everytime it proced. Am I buging/glitching the game? NO I AM NOT, I dont know any cheats nor what ever you guys are talking about. 50k is easy to do. My rogue which is far undergeared does 48k dps. The numbers isnt huge at all. Thats the basic numbers on Catalism.

[Heilige]

I dont know why you pull such low numbers ~,..,~
Im 393 Equiped iL, NO legendary, but I did 53k dps as a Firemage on ultraxion. I also do 65-70k burst with pots+combustion. I dont know what rolling ignites are and I dont know what you guys are talking about. All I did was use pyro everytime it proced. Am I buging/glitching the game? NO I AM NOT, I dont know any cheats nor what ever you guys are talking about. 50k is easy to do. My rogue which is far undergeared does 48k dps. The numbers isnt huge at all. Thats the basic numbers on Catalism.

Don't make such claims without evidence to support it. Not to mention 53k DPS but only 65-70k burst? MMHMM, yeah, sure. Your burst would be at or above 6 figures.

[Deleted]

I dont know why you pull such low numbers ~,..,~
Im 393 Equiped iL, NO legendary, but I did 53k dps as a Firemage on ultraxion.

Either logs or I'm calling BS.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...agon_Soul/dps/ Is top rankings no? So this "53k" dps would have you listed up their with people with legendary, DI , tricks etc etc. Suuuuuure.