Blizzard discouraging Tank PvP!

[Deleted]

A tank should be about survivibility, not damage output.
While it may have been just a portion that caused the problem, vengeance due to its intent to resolve threat issues did not belong in pvp.
Let the other problems be resolved in their own ways, but keep vengeance which was designed as a pve mechanic there where it belongs.

A good way to solve this problem then is to make every other class have alot less HP in PvP or something then? Because right now, tanks are a useless DPSer.

[Deleted]

I played Lineage II for about 4 years non-stop before starting playing WoW, most of that time as a Paladin (which only has tank role).

It was so fun being a tank in a PvP environment because you were able to taunt people (even all the targets around you at the same time) and taking all the damage while your DD's killed the enemies.

WoW's tanks should work like that, they would be a lot more fun to play and wouldnt be a FOTM when they are broken like now (specially blood dks).

[Deleted]

And how is it exactly surprising that they don't want tanks to PvP? Not like tank can't spec Arms/Frost/Ret for PvP. DPS classes don't PvP in their PvE specs either.

They should do the same for healers then, only fair right?

[Foxwar]

Eat this terribad blood dk. Play like a real peeveepeer now.

[Volitar]

Tanks should be tanks ie take no dmg and be hard to kill
Tanks should not be able to push out tons of dps and be almost unkillable

Vengeance is a threat mechanic, stop bitching.

[Deleted]

There is no such thing as balanced PvP.

And sadly, there never will be. Pvp will always be inbalanced as long as WoW exists.

[Deleted]

Eat this terribad blood dk. Play like a real peeveepeer now.

By rolling Frost mage or Rogue then I assume?

---------- Post added 2012-01-10 at 11:24 AM ----------

Tanks should be tanks ie take no dmg and be hard to kill
Tanks should not be able to push out tons of dps and be almost unkillable

Vengeance is a threat mechanic, stop bitching.

Really then, what stops you from NOT targeting the tank in a PvP situation then?

A tank should tank damage and control fights, just like in PvP.

[Foxwar]

By rolling Frost mage or Rogue then I assume?

Or by using real pvp spec.

[Deleted]

Tanks should be tanks ie take no dmg and be hard to kill
Tanks should not be able to push out tons of dps and be almost unkillable

Vengeance is a threat mechanic, stop bitching.

Try reading the thread before posting. )

[Deleted]

Or by using real pvp spec.

"healers should stop using Healing thats a PvE thing, they need to go do a real PvP specc."

[hpgupta]

IMO, the 3 things that could make tanks fun (and still balanced) to play in pvp:

1) Make them difficult to kill on your own. Some feral druids (in bear form) and blood DKs come close to how I think it should be, but still needs tweaking. A potential fix could be to change how armor or mitigation stats react vs players.

2) Make them unable to kill anyone on their own. I think prot pallies are very close to how tank damage should be.

3) Change taunts - No, don't force the taunted player to only be able to focus the tank for the entire DR duration. But, force a taunt to make the enemy change it's targeted player (which can be changed back but does waste a second). And, once the taunt is used, the next special ability will always be directed at the tank (ignoring range issues). For example, Tank taunts mage, mage loses target, switches target back, casts pyroblast on his original target, but the damage goes to the tank instead. With some careful tweaking of the taunt cooldown in pvp, this could add a new dimension to tank pvp. Tanks would go from their useless form in arena right now to actually being able to offset bursts or CC chains by taunting at the right time.

What do you guys think about these changes? Would they make tanks fun to play? Or would they upset the game balance too much?

[Deleted]

Vengeance was a stupid thing to have in PvP. Druids are the worst Vengeance abusers (along side DK's obv) because they rip through litterally anything with or without resi, and a quick bearform switch thats even more damage for them when they go back to cat form... thats just not right. Blood DK's have the healing capabilities that are just as bad as the Vengeance issue in PvP so this change isn't a total fix

[PizzaSHARK]

You've 0 clue how tanks work in other games, do you?

Tanks are actually useful in PvP (not in a DD role) in several different games (such as Aion, Lineage II, TERA, etc.), if the design isnt actually flawed.

WAR's implementation of tanks was spot-on. It's just a shame EA's influence ensured that game could never be successful.

I'd have no problem with them removing Vengeance if they made it possible for us to actually protect our teammates. That's not the case, though - we can't protect them very well with Vengeance and our current toolset, so how are they expecting us to do it if they remove Vengeance without improving our toolset?

It's not like we can Taunt players.

---------- Post added 2012-01-10 at 06:40 AM ----------

A tank should be about survivibility, not damage output.
While it may have been just a portion that caused the problem, vengeance due to its intent to resolve threat issues did not belong in pvp.
Let the other problems be resolved in their own ways, but keep vengeance which was designed as a pve mechanic there where it belongs.

The issue is that tanks aren't really that much harder to kill than healers; in fact, I'm pretty sure a geared healer will outlast a geared tank. Hell, I'm pretty sure my Enhancement Shaman with 1800 Resilience survives better than my new Warrior with 2800 Resilience (the Warrior is Protection), especially if there are pillars and such I can use to break LOS and pump out a heal.

The only tank that's truly difficult to kill is Blood. Paladins and Warriors are pretty goddamned easy to drop, and so are Bears.

What people are fucking missing here is that this is an incredibly short-sighted change. They want to nerf Blood DKs, and this will do that - but it's also going to nerf all the other tanks who weren't in need of nerfs in the first place. But whatever, I guess all these morons that don't know how to dispel Vengeance or think the game should be balanced around 2v2 will just continue their mindless blather, and Blizzard will listen.

/sigh

[Deleted]

WAR's implementation of tanks was spot-on. It's just a shame EA's influence ensured that game could never be successful.

I'd have no problem with them removing Vengeance if they made it possible for us to actually protect our teammates. That's not the case, though - we can't protect them very well with Vengeance and our current toolset, so how are they expecting us to do it if they remove Vengeance without improving our toolset?

It's not like we can Taunt players.

---------- Post added 2012-01-10 at 06:40 AM ----------



The issue is that tanks aren't really that much harder to kill than healers; in fact, I'm pretty sure a geared healer will outlast a geared tank. Hell, I'm pretty sure my Enhancement Shaman with 1800 Resilience survives better than my new Warrior with 2800 Resilience (the Warrior is Protection), especially if there are pillars and such I can use to break LOS and pump out a heal.

The only tank that's truly difficult to kill is Blood. Paladins and Warriors are pretty goddamned easy to drop, and so are Bears.

What people are fucking missing here is that this is an incredibly short-sighted change. They want to nerf Blood DKs, and this will do that - but it's also going to nerf all the other tanks who weren't in need of nerfs in the first place. But whatever, I guess all these morons that don't know how to dispel Vengeance or think the game should be balanced around 2v2 will just continue their mindless blather, and Blizzard will listen.

/sigh

Sadly I cant post on US forums... EU forums are garbage and the feedback wont ever reach a dev.

[Anthraxxxis]

Now that bliz is making stuff not proc off players. How about some of those Trinkets.

[Kazdum]

WAR's implementation of tanks was spot-on. It's just a shame EA's influence ensured that game could never be successful.

I'd have no problem with them removing Vengeance if they made it possible for us to actually protect our teammates. That's not the case, though - we can't protect them very well with Vengeance and our current toolset, so how are they expecting us to do it if they remove Vengeance without improving our toolset?

It's not like we can Taunt players.

---------- Post added 2012-01-10 at 06:40 AM ----------



The issue is that tanks aren't really that much harder to kill than healers; in fact, I'm pretty sure a geared healer will outlast a geared tank. Hell, I'm pretty sure my Enhancement Shaman with 1800 Resilience survives better than my new Warrior with 2800 Resilience (the Warrior is Protection), especially if there are pillars and such I can use to break LOS and pump out a heal.

The only tank that's truly difficult to kill is Blood. Paladins and Warriors are pretty goddamned easy to drop, and so are Bears.

What people are fucking missing here is that this is an incredibly short-sighted change. They want to nerf Blood DKs, and this will do that - but it's also going to nerf all the other tanks who weren't in need of nerfs in the first place. But whatever, I guess all these morons that don't know how to dispel Vengeance or think the game should be balanced around 2v2 will just continue their mindless blather, and Blizzard will listen.

/sigh

So what you are saying is that because tanks arent good at what they are supposed to do at PvP they should just do the "blizzard official pvp band aid" and slap a +x% dmg?
Sorry, no.
If tanks are really that bad at holding flag or soaking damage or protecting teammates, wich i really dont think all of them are, prot warriors still have alot of retarded stuns and silences, then thats a different issue, letting them stack thousands of attack power wont solve it.
In fact, if history teach us anything in regard to pvp in this game is that more damage is never the answer, the game could really use a 20% damage nerf acrross the board.

[Rvlzr]

You've 0 clue how tanks work in other games, do you?

Tanks are actually useful in PvP (not in a DD role) in several different games (such as Aion, Lineage II, TERA, etc.), if the design isnt actually flawed.

In those games, characters collide so a "tank" can prevent enemies from getting past. In WoW you can just run right through tanks and kill the clothies in the back or whatever, so of course their role will be limited. This is how the game engine works, not something they can reasonably change at this point.

[vep]

One think I've been always curious about, is why Blizzard is so eager to prevent tanks from PvPing. Our most iconic ability "taunt" is not working in PvP (other games have this since years) and they moved away from what actually the tank job is - we're now dealing nearly equal damage as DDs, which they're trying to "fix" by tweaking Vengeance in the upcoming patch.

I call it poor design since 7 years - whats the reason to negate a whole role out of an aspect of the game?

I'm sorry, are blood DKs not popular to carry the flag in WSG? Are prot warriors not in the same spot?
Are feral druids, who switch from tank to dps in basically one button not good at tanking people on a flag in Arathi Basin?

There are plenty of uses for tanks in the game, they are just not as obvious as those for a DPS... Besides, why would you want to taunt in pvp? Except if it's the Leage of Legends style of taunt....

[Deleted]

Taunt being other than just a debuff would seriously make anyone rage. Dont get me wrong, i really want Taunt to be used in PvP.

The question is what kind of debuff should Taunt give if used in PvP. Maybe there could be other effects in PvP but even using Taunt making targets spin to your direction would make anyone angry. It used to be like that in another online game.

[Deleted]

They had to nerf Blood dks cus they are just retarded atm.