1. #1

    A little discussion about Madness Sorcs.

    So are there any other Sorcerers out there that are running Madness Spec, If so what stats are you aiming for? I am currently gearing and modding torward Crit and Surge myself, most because of the parasitism talent (1% of your health everytime a dot crits) I currenlty am rocking 29% crit and 82% surge, I also run the same spec and stats through HMs. As I stated in the title, this is just a discussion about it, mostly because I havent seen any other real guides to it

    P.S. Does anyone have a site, or a list of the List of the Loot off of HMs and Ops? Trying to find a loot list for these is driving me up a wall

    Armory^

  2. #2
    Which "Madness" spec are you talking? Creeping Terror or Lightning?

    Though not entirely relevant to the stats priority, regardless it should be: Force Power > Power > Crit > Alacrity = Surge for pretty much any DPS sorc/sage build.

  3. #3
    I didnt think of that, I guess Im talking either really, Im Creeping terror spec because I love my DoTs but thats just me

    Armory^

  4. #4

  5. #5
    No loot lists that I know of ... and yes, from what I can tell, madness is *the* dps spec ...

    As far as *stats* are concerned, I was under the impression that Healers were Power/Alacrity (haste) and DPS was Crit/Surge (crit modifier). As a healer, my problem is usually landing "more" heals on different targets (ops healing wise) then landing "bigger" heals. My big heal is down to 2.2 seconds, 1.3 under haste effect.

    I have honestly been wondering what a healing crit build would feel like, but I have the notion, it would only lend to overheals and even hasted, I don't generally run out of force.

    On the flip side, I would imagine DPS would be fishing for "bigger" numbers, hence the crit / surge. If a DPS went with a power/haste build, I would imagine it would only serve to run you out of force faster. The surge is an interesting dynamic as it it's not about just choosing haste over crit ... it's haste over crit/surge and that combo I think makes the idea of sprinkling some haste into your setup pretty much a non-starter.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sidebar View Post
    No loot lists that I know of ... and yes, from what I can tell, madness is *the* dps spec ...

    As far as *stats* are concerned, I was under the impression that Healers were Power/Alacrity (haste) and DPS was Crit/Surge (crit modifier). As a healer, my problem is usually landing "more" heals on different targets (ops healing wise) then landing "bigger" heals. My big heal is down to 2.2 seconds, 1.3 under haste effect.

    I have honestly been wondering what a healing crit build would feel like, but I have the notion, it would only lend to overheals and even hasted, I don't generally run out of force.

    On the flip side, I would imagine DPS would be fishing for "bigger" numbers, hence the crit / surge. If a DPS went with a power/haste build, I would imagine it would only serve to run you out of force faster. The surge is an interesting dynamic as it it's not about just choosing haste over crit ... it's haste over crit/surge and that combo I think makes the idea of sprinkling some haste into your setup pretty much a non-starter.
    Crit for healing works thanks to Innervation, as it will raise the chance of Innervation procc'ing free Consumptions so you're replenishing force without costing HP to yourself. Alacrity as a healer is more of a PvP stat where getting DI and Innervate off quickly before interrupts is an issue. Otherwise in a PvE environment it's throughput. As such Power/Force Power is your next stat after getting an appropriate level of crit, according to the guide about 20%...I'd shoot for closer to 30% personally (easy with HM-FP gear and commendation gear). Surge is in there as well for helping throughput.

    Power/Crit/Surge would truly serve best for DPS, though Alacrity is not bad, but I doubt it'll make a difference this early. Surge is nice for Madness as you're getting a lot of +crit talents and such along the way.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    Crit for healing works thanks to Innervation, as it will raise the chance of Innervation procc'ing free Consumptions so you're replenishing force without costing HP to yourself.
    The sequence is: Resurge + Inner + Consumption. The resurge gives you a 25% chance to proc the free consumption ... regardless of your crit. Rarely will you *not* cast a resurge before you cast an innervate (might even be different targets for each) so rarely will you not get a free consumption.

    Missing a free consumption here or there is only an issue if you are actually *having* force issues. I rarely run out of force in a HM or an Op.

    Alacrity as a healer is more of a PvP stat where getting DI and Innervate off quickly before interrupts is an issue. Otherwise in a PvE environment it's throughput.
    You almost say that like throughput is a bad thing?

    As such Power/Force Power is your next stat after getting an appropriate level of crit, according to the guide about 20%...I'd shoot for closer to 30% personally (easy with HM-FP gear and commendation gear). Surge is in there as well for helping throughput.
    1) Appropriate levels of crit. The guides assumption is 20% an you tack on a abitrary 10% to that and your basis is to proc the free consumption so you get free force ... but if your not having force issues, and you proc consumption the majority of the time, that means this statement is void? and maybe having 10% crit is fine?

    2) Surge. If your experiencing overhealing, surge will only make that worse, not better.

    I am not saying that crit is *bad*, just saying the basis for the argument is flawed.

    So putting aside the argument, we can look at what the dev's thought were the correct ratio's. If we look at the Columi piece we see the following (willpower ignored).

    5 Piece:
    Alacrity: 144
    Power: 141
    Crit: 106
    Surge: 96

    Off Pieces:
    Alacrity: 144
    Crit: 135
    Power: 75

    The Dev's might have their heads up their butts, but it definitively looks like *they* think alacrity is more important then crit and both are more important then surge.

    So, I would challenge the abitrary 20%-30% crit numbers and if we give credence to what the Dev's think by looking at their raid gear you would say: Alacrity > Crit >> Surge ... where you want alacrity on top, but closely followed by crit ... as far as healing is concerned.

  8. #8
    I'm not really arguing, nor did I say throughput is bad. That's all good info.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakile View Post
    So are there any other Sorcerers out there that are running Madness Spec, If so what stats are you aiming for? I am currently gearing and modding torward Crit and Surge myself, most because of the parasitism talent (1% of your health everytime a dot crits) I currenlty am rocking 29% crit and 82% surge, I also run the same spec and stats through HMs. As I stated in the title, this is just a discussion about it, mostly because I havent seen any other real guides to it

    P.S. Does anyone have a site, or a list of the List of the Loot off of HMs and Ops? Trying to find a loot list for these is driving me up a wall
    http://www.tor-loot.com/

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by sidebar View Post
    No loot lists that I know of ... and yes, from what I can tell, madness is *the* dps spec ...

    As far as *stats* are concerned, I was under the impression that Healers were Power/Alacrity (haste) and DPS was Crit/Surge (crit modifier). As a healer, my problem is usually landing "more" heals on different targets (ops healing wise) then landing "bigger" heals. My big heal is down to 2.2 seconds, 1.3 under haste effect.

    I have honestly been wondering what a healing crit build would feel like, but I have the notion, it would only lend to overheals and even hasted, I don't generally run out of force.

    On the flip side, I would imagine DPS would be fishing for "bigger" numbers, hence the crit / surge. If a DPS went with a power/haste build, I would imagine it would only serve to run you out of force faster. The surge is an interesting dynamic as it it's not about just choosing haste over crit ... it's haste over crit/surge and that combo I think makes the idea of sprinkling some haste into your setup pretty much a non-starter.
    I think a crit on the channeled spell procs the free consumption, I mean i have gone for crit for that reason

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by undercovergnome View Post
    I think a crit on the channeled spell procs the free consumption, I mean i have gone for crit for that reason
    If you use Resurgence before casting Innervate, you get +25% crit chance on Innervate from the Force Bending buff. Not that crit is a bad thing (I'm sitting at ~30% self buffed), but stacking it really isn't necessary JUST for free consumption procs: correct play will give you plenty in the course of a fight.

  12. #12
    I'm using http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZfcM0dZcrcRsMkrc.1 and im gearing towards crit and Surge as much as possible, the aim is to reach around 30% ish crit self-buffed. Oppressing Force can be replaced by whatever suits you better

    Affliction with crit gear so Lightning barrage is always up every 10s (ICD), as you can get a second FL for half of the time if you dont get damaged (bug). Also Wrath as like 95% uptime due to the FL spam, and you can use it on CD, CL and if those 2 are on cooldown you can use it on LS (more on PvP).

    My rotation is basically:
    FL (to proc Wrath) > Affliction > DF > CD(with Wrath) > FL (until it procs Wrath) > CL (with Wrath and CD is on Cooldown)
    Refresh Affliction and DF on cooldown, and never wait to long to use a wrath proc (dont cancel already channeling FL ofc)

    Stats: Willpower > Power > Crit/Surge > Alac (if you PvP Accuracy above 100% reduces targets Defenses)
    alac in my view is a better stat for full lightning cause you have alot more casts with FL, CL and LS(filler), if alac worked like haste and made dots tick faster it would be a better stat choice for madness but it doesnt

    the only problem i get so far is aggro on multi-packs (multi-dot'ing) and you might steal aggro from tank if you crit many times in a row with FL

    when Force gets low, just spam FL for about 10/15 secs, but keep Afliction always ticking to take advantage of the bug
    Last edited by Lusitan; 2012-01-11 at 11:06 AM.


  13. #13
    How can you gear for a certain stat? endgame pve and pvp gear doesnt really leave much room except you take an item twice and change the mods. and most slots come withhout mods.

  14. #14
    on Raid set gear u can change mod and enhancement slots to accommodate you stats choice, for off-set pieces you have more maneuver to pick a item with stats u desire most, even if its a PvP item

    Force-mystic set as great stats, altought it designed for Healers, you can always steal their mods, if you get lucky with token drops


  15. #15
    Yes i know, but where do you get the mods and enhancements from?
    right only other equally high level pvp/pve gear, so thats an extremely costly solution.
    and there are not too many off-set pieces either.

    There is just not much choice/room in my opinion, there are no enchantments and the only good mods/enhancements available are the only ones alread in the high end gear.

    I would really like to know - specificially - what mod you put in what item to reach your goals

  16. #16
    Mods can be crafted by Cybertechs, and Enhancment are made by Artificers, you should be looking for rank 22+ of both of them.

    Off-pieces: Belt, 2 implants, ear and wrist = 5 slots
    Set pieces: head, chest, gloves, legs and boots = 5 pieces

    +

    2 relics

    im getting the battle enhancement in the heroic daily in Illum quest reward - 5 days u will get 5 enhancments
    the mod i will scan the AH, i can recall the name now, but i think its the mettle or meddle
    Last edited by Lusitan; 2012-01-11 at 11:38 AM.


  17. #17
    sadly, the daily quest and craftable mods/enhancements are much lower level than the ones, that are already in the champion/columni and rataka/battlemaster gear, if you replace the mods in those items with the ones you mentioned you will lose a lot of stats, thats never worth it. thats why I asked for specific examples.
    and there are a lot of off-set slots, but you dont really have much different drops/gear to choose from for those slots, thats what I meant.

    Thats why I just dont see much room for choice

  18. #18
    full set of Rattaka will give you 37%ish crit raid buffed, sometimes you dont need to change anything, it will depend on your gear, but like i said before my aim is to be around 30% crit self-buffed
    Last edited by Lusitan; 2012-01-11 at 12:04 PM.


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