Optimizing for Heroic Spine of Deathwing (10)

[Savedwow]

I can safely say that Hunters are one of the better classes, if utilized properly, on Tendons. Specifically Marksmanship, but BM and Survival are both viable (though I doubt near the same numbers as Marksmanship)

I'm consistently doing 1.2-1.4m damage now, with Spikes in the range of 1.6-1.9m damage per tendon per phase.

[timoseewho]

I can safely say that Hunters are one of the better classes, if utilized properly, on Tendons. Specifically Marksmanship, but BM and Survival are both viable (though I doubt near the same numbers as Marksmanship)

I'm consistently doing 1.2-1.4m damage now, with Spikes in the range of 1.6-1.9m damage per tendon per phase.

Are you dumping with AiS or AS? With RF I'm guessing AiS for sure?

[Donkeywing]

I can safely say that Hunters are one of the better classes, if utilized properly, on Tendons. Specifically Marksmanship, but BM and Survival are both viable (though I doubt near the same numbers as Marksmanship)

I'm consistently doing 1.2-1.4m damage now, with Spikes in the range of 1.6-1.9m damage per tendon per phase.

I think you are underestimating BM severly, unless I'm missing something big. Just for examples sake (I don't know if you had bad luck here or such, just putting that out there) I'm picking try 7&8 because those were times where you had 2 tendon burn phases, and since my guild just started progressing on this boss we didn't get any further yet:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&s=5518&e=5818
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&s=4911&e=5208

Now if you compare those logs to 2 of mine:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&s=8634&e=8938
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&s=7171&e=7482

And take into account I only have 394ilvl: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ywing/advanced
(ofc using VP trinket)

You can conclude that BM definitely has the potential to outdps MM (also mind this was the first night so made some screw ups), and at the very least you can say I'm coming quite close considering my ilvl compared to yours. Unless ofc I'm missing something really big here.

[Savedwow]

Oh, I'm not saying BM isn't capable of doing the damage. Actually, we've toyed with the fact of going BM. But overall damage is also quite important, and Marksmanship is just heads and shoulders better if you take every facet and add it all up.

Overall, I felt my damage could have been better last night, and still, I did what would be considered "great" dps when it comes to other Hunters. I think I could do close to MM numbers on the Tendons if I went BM (and probably 100-300k avg less if Survival) but when add up the other little things, I highly prefer MM to BM.

Nice damage, by the way. You're probably very close to doing the maximum your gear would allow. I would like to add though that the difference in gear isn't going to increase DPS in the 200-400k range per tendon phase. You have a set period of time to do the damage, 23 seconds, and the biggest difference in DPS will be either Crits or no Crits. If I used your gear and had the same luck as with my gear, I'd expect maybe 50-100k gain switching to my gear, and that's on the high side. One of our other Hunter's that has been in on attempts with very similar gear to you is pulling numbers quite close to Wyvern and myself.

You did mention you don't know if I had bad luck or good luck, so here's overall tendon damage for the night. When only Legendaries + Rogues are beating me, I'd say we're in a pretty good place

[TJ]

Reroll, not a joke, currently playing my paladin :<

But if you insist on playing a hunter, i think haste maximising and spamming aimed shots like a boss is the way to go, think i seen someone from the guild "exploding labrats" doing it, not sure if it worked but it sounds best imo.

[Savedwow]

That's definitely the way to go. If I get crit runs, I'm doing obscene damage. if I don't get crits, I'm doing middle of the pack.. it averages out pretty good.

[Deleted]

Oh, I'm not saying BM isn't capable of doing the damage. Actually, we've toyed with the fact of going BM. But overall damage is also quite important, and Marksmanship is just heads and shoulders better if you take every facet and add it all up.

Overall, I felt my damage could have been better last night, and still, I did what would be considered "great" dps when it comes to other Hunters. I think I could do close to MM numbers on the Tendons if I went BM (and probably 100-300k avg less if Survival) but when add up the other little things, I highly prefer MM to BM.

Nice damage, by the way. You're probably very close to doing the maximum your gear would allow. I would like to add though that the difference in gear isn't going to increase DPS in the 200-400k range per tendon phase. You have a set period of time to do the damage, 23 seconds, and the biggest difference in DPS will be either Crits or no Crits. If I used your gear and had the same luck as with my gear, I'd expect maybe 50-100k gain switching to my gear, and that's on the high side. One of our other Hunter's that has been in on attempts with very similar gear to you is pulling numbers quite close to Wyvern and myself.

You did mention you don't know if I had bad luck or good luck, so here's overall tendon damage for the night. When only Legendaries + Rogues are beating me, I'd say we're in a pretty good place

I cant find any logs anywhere that puts MM ahead. All three seem about the same.
What is clear though is that no spec in the game can come close to SV on Amalgamation damage, if you are keeping traps up on the bloods.

[eschatological]

Wait a minute, you're doing 1.6 per lift, or per tendon (IE, two lifts)? The log posted up above shows 1.96m damage, and I see only two casts of nuclear blast in the try, so I'm assuming two lifts, or one tendon. I also don't know what the differences might be on 25 vs. 10. Now that I think of it, 1.6 (your example of burst) in less than 20 seconds would be above 80k DPS.

If that's how y'all have been defining damage on the tendons, I've been underselling myself this whole time.

---------- Post added 2012-01-25 at 10:33 PM ----------

Also, looking at Manas' kill log up there, I'm seeing 4.2m over 3 tendons or 6 lifts, which works out to 700k per lift.

This whole time I thought you guys were doing 1.2-1.4 per lift. Jesus.

[Jaydenkor]

Jumping into the convo here.. How viable is it to compare tendon dmg only in LFR mode, to heroic mode
Assumptions being that.. you kill it in 1 lift obviously, and you kill it faster then 23 seconds (lets say 15 seconds)
.. so if I assume 45 seconds of Tendon dps time and I do X dmg.. and math that out for 3 lifts in heroic?

or perhaps que LFR, and ONLY dps the first tendon for the 15-20 seconds it lives.. and figure thats about the dmg Id pull per lift (obviously I wouldnt have RF every time)...

or would it be completely different?

Im basically trying to figure a good way to see which spec I excel at on tendons -- I usually play surv, and in LFR as surv I did something like 3.3 mil to tendons (3 lifts obviously)
The next day we finished up our clear and did normal spine, where I had gone BM.. and had significant trouble with pet LoS for Killcommand and Bestial wrath (had to petpassive, burn CD, petsend .. wasting about 3.5 seconds) .. and barely pulled 1.8 mil in 3 lifts.

I did play MM for T12, and would agree that MM should do pretty good burst on tendons with multiple RFs and readiness... I havent tested it yet.. just looking for opinions and advice.

[Deleted]

We are currently progressing on spine10H. I was benched for the first trys, but due to mediocre tendon dmg from our rogue, i'll be taken along the next time we do the encounter.
I am sure, that marks is the way to go, but our group is missing sunder armor (no rogue/warri/druid), 30% bleed & 4% physical. I have to provide 5% crit, we have all other buffs/debuffs though.
Considering this, do you still think, marks is the best specc (and reforge crit/haste) or should i stay surv with crit/mastery? Thanks in advance...

[timoseewho]

Jumping into the convo here.. How viable is it to compare tendon dmg only in LFR mode, to heroic mode
Assumptions being that.. you kill it in 1 lift obviously, and you kill it faster then 23 seconds (lets say 15 seconds)
.. so if I assume 45 seconds of Tendon dps time and I do X dmg.. and math that out for 3 lifts in heroic?

or perhaps que LFR, and ONLY dps the first tendon for the 15-20 seconds it lives.. and figure thats about the dmg Id pull per lift (obviously I wouldnt have RF every time)...

or would it be completely different?

Im basically trying to figure a good way to see which spec I excel at on tendons -- I usually play surv, and in LFR as surv I did something like 3.3 mil to tendons (3 lifts obviously)
The next day we finished up our clear and did normal spine, where I had gone BM.. and had significant trouble with pet LoS for Killcommand and Bestial wrath (had to petpassive, burn CD, petsend .. wasting about 3.5 seconds) .. and barely pulled 1.8 mil in 3 lifts.

I did play MM for T12, and would agree that MM should do pretty good burst on tendons with multiple RFs and readiness... I havent tested it yet.. just looking for opinions and advice.

My advice is just to practice on target dummies and just add /stopwatch play into your CD macro and time yourself for 19 secs. For sure you won't have all the buffs, but aim for 800k+ and try to simulate the spine environment. What I do is build up my WoU stacks with autoshots, then drop ET on the dummies (enough to hit 2 of them), wait 5 secs and hope for a LnL proc by then, then hit it for 19. I personally prefer ET over BA for LnL procs, but that might change in 4.3.2.

[eschatological]

ET'll be better as long as your tank is trying to DPS tendons, and has bloods up front with him. If not, BA'll be fine. Also, I haven't been figuring in pet damage on the logs up there, with it it seems hunters can do 1m a lift.

[Arhippa]

What is clear though is that no spec in the game can come close to SV on Amalgamation damage, if you are keeping traps up on the bloods.

I wouldn't say that it's clear. MM hunters, ferals and sub rogues are pretty good contenders if not better in some cases.

[Blada]

I've been doing up to 1.2 mil on the first lift, and up to a mil on the second lift, averaging about two mil on the first tendon, we haven't gotten the second tendon down yet, but we've gotten it to about 100k in two lifts. My damage is way behind the other dps in the group by then on the tendons, but I keep up on the first one usually. We're expecting a kill next week Once our priest gets his 4set and will actually do more than 800k per lift

[Deleted]

I wouldn't say that it's clear. MM hunters, ferals and sub rogues are pretty good contenders if not better in some cases.

I cant see any logs that suggest that to be honest. I'm doing about 30% more Amal damage than MMs I have seen (over 13 million amal damage), and I'm also the dps on blood duty, and breaking grips. The best rogues out there seem to be doing about 13 million while sitting on the amal 100% of the time, which SV can match while doing two other jobs.

This is obviously player specific.

If played correctly, MM does seem slightly ahead on Tendon DPS though.

[Arhippa]

I cant see any logs that suggest that to be honest. I'm doing about 30% more Amal damage than MMs I have seen (over 13 million amal damage), and I'm also the dps on blood duty, and breaking grips.

I suppose I should've mentioned I'm looking at this from 25man PoV. The numbers differ when comparing 10 and 25mans as well as faster vs. slower kills, so it's not really black and white. Just for the fun of it though, I'll list what we had on our kill. Me as MM with 15,2M damage done, 2 ferals both ~14,9M and a rogue with 14,5M was the top4. Feel free to make any conclusions, I'm too lazy to even try.

I'm assisting on grips when necessary, as in when enough of the grip breakers get stunned themselves.

[Deleted]

I suppose I should've mentioned I'm looking at this from 25man PoV. The numbers differ when comparing 10 and 25mans as well as faster vs. slower kills, so it's not really black and white. Just for the fun of it though, I'll list what we had on our kill. Me as MM with 15,2M damage done, 2 ferals both ~14,9M and a rogue with 14,5M was the top4. Feel free to make any conclusions, I'm too lazy to even try.

I'm assisting on grips when necessary, as in when enough of the grip breakers get stunned themselves.

I thought this thread was about 10m. Maybe 25m is different, I'm not able to comment. The numbers will be very different between the two because in 25m you have every debuff up on every mob 100% of the time.

Certainly from a 10m POV, assuming you have all important buffs, MM is slightly ahead on Tendon DPS, but miles behind on everything else if SV is keeping traps up on bloods. I'm able to do about 4.6-4.8m over 5 Tendons without a Ferocity pet, which is a large DPS loss.

[Arhippa]

I thought this thread was about 10m.

It certainly was, and it still might be - hard to tell at this point. I just made the assumption that 25man was also included in the "SV is clearly ahead", since the post I quoted had you quoting a picture of 25man spine.

[Paulosio]

My guild has just reached this boss on heroic and our guild leaders are trying to get all our dps to buy the valor trinkets for the on use effect. I normally play Surv and occasionally BM and was wondering if anyone knows if Kiroptyric Sigil is actually worth it? It comes out something like 700 dps less on female dwarf for my survival spec but ofc burst on tendons is the important part.

Oh and dunno if it's really relevant but here's my armory (had shocking luck with drops so far) :| http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aryliss/simple

I use a fairly standard Crit > mastery > haste reforging scheme but would something maybe be better specifically for spine tendons ?

[Talvirr]

@Paulosio
Tendon damage is the only reason to run this trinket, on a stand still fight such as ultraxion it will come out behind others as femaledwarf has shown. But having 2k agility for every burn compared to 400 agi+crit/haste proc it is a clear winner.
Once your guild can manage the first 2 plates in 2 lifts you get more time to practice the fun part of the encounter.