Holy paladin tips needed

[Nkawd]

Hi all! I just started playing my paladin as holy and pretty much have no clue of what to do. I use to heal during BC, but back then we didn't have as many heals as we do now. What i am looking for is general guidelines. My gear level is 360, with no set bonuses. Some questions:
1) Should i use Holy Shock on CD?
2) What would be my "go to" spell?
3) Who to beacon?

Links to other helpful websites would be appreciated as well!

Thank you.

[Deleted]

You beacon the tank.
You do holy shock as often as possible.
You judge once per minute (or a little early if need be) to keep the buff up.
Divine Plea to regen mana during low dmg phases (it reduces your healing done by 50% for the duration)
Make use of your CDs, you have many of them

Early on you'll want to spec into as much mana conservation as possible. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sMIMzrkuufdhbZc works
Note the points into HoPo generators (when you're hit and when you directly heal the tank with DL or FoL), this spec will maximize WoG usage so you can conserve mana.

Glyph for Holy Shock, Seal of Insight and Word of Glory. Divine Favor is also an option.

Stats: Int > spirit (you'll need it for mana if you're just starting out) > haste > crit=mastery
Int is supreme, spirit for mana and haste is your best throughout secondary stat

Your go-to spell I guess would be HL or DL, I'll outline your spells and their usages here:
- Holy Light - basic heal, mana efficient. Lots of usage at low gear levels. The only spell that transfers 100% to beacon of light so cast in someone other than the tank and it will duplicate the heal to the tank.
- Divine Light - an upgraded version of holy light (except it beacon xfers 50%). More mana intense, use for high damage phases. With later gear levels it almost completely replaces holy light.
- Flash of Light - very little use in PvE, only an emergency fast heal to save a life. Very mana inefficient.
- Word of Glory - no mana cost, instant cast. Awesome spell and use as often as it's up.
- Light of Dawn - an AoE version of WoG, obviously use the same as WoG but for healing 6 targets.
- Holy Radiance - huge mana cost, won't see much use at low gear levels. Becomes the primary AoE heal as you gear up and can afford it's cost. Does not transfer healing to beacon of light

[Nkawd]

Thanks for the reply. Very useful. I only have one question and its about the talent build you provided. Wouldn't it better to put two points in to Last Word instead of Blazing Light?

[Deleted]

that is correct. blazing light is only used together with denounce if you need to dps somewhere. there is not fight liek this atm thou, maybe spine hc.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the reply. Very useful. I only have one question and its about the talent build you provided. Wouldn't it better to put two points in to Last Word instead of Blazing Light?

Uhh yeah, that's where the points are suppose to go. It was late and I wasn't really looking.

[anthony]

Early on you'll want to spec into as much mana conservation as possible. http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sMIMzrkuufdhbZc works
Note the points into HoPo generators (when you're hit and when you directly heal the tank with DL or FoL), this spec will maximize WoG usage so you can conserve mana.

Protector of the Innocent 3/3 is ~5% of my overall healing per encounter. Can you show us that Blessed Life 2/2 can make up for the ~1.5-2% in extra healing done with PotI 2/3?

[Balyn]

Protector of the Innocent 3/3 is ~5% of my overall healing per encounter. Can you show us that Blessed Life 2/2 can make up for the ~1.5-2% in extra healing done with PotI 2/3?

It heals YOU for 5% over a fight.

And I'm not sure what #1 are talking about.. DL replaces HL on higher gear? That's just bullcrap.
HL is what you spam all the time while HS is on CD. Keep HS at cd as much as you can for Daybreak + infusion procs.
WoG For tanks, LoD for AoE heals(together with HR)

This is my spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#scIbzrkuufkhbZc:mVcaMfczM

Switching Glyph of LoD for Divinity in 25m and Divine Prot for Divinity on Morchok etc.
I always have Glyph of LoD in 10m tho.

[Deleted]

Protector of the Innocent 3/3 is ~5% of my overall healing per encounter. Can you show us that Blessed Life 2/2 can make up for the ~1.5-2% in extra healing done with PotI 2/3?

That spec already has 2/3 PotI, so from your 5% it'd only be missing about 1.7%. I think extra HoPo generation is worth the 1.7% healing, especially since that 1.7% is always on you and you have little control over it. Of course I could be wrong, it's kind of hard to calculate how much % of healing you end up with via extra HoPo procs from a single talent. Even if you take 1 point out of it though I'd prefer to put that point in Judgement range for easy of use rather than fill up PotI. PotI is a nice little gimmick and it's cool to see how much it'll add up to over a fight but healing isn't always about the overall numbers. When shit hits the fan PotI isn't not gonna save your life, that extra WoG on the other hand can be the difference between life and death.

And I'm not sure what #1 are talking about.. DL replaces HL on higher gear? That's just bullcrap.

Umm.. no. It's not. That's just the way pally healing works, try and use your head a little before talking big. HL was THE spell of choice for general healing at low gear levels. You don't spam HL all the time at low gear levels, you can't afford to. It's simply what you use to heal damage. Damage happens? Use HL.

At high gear levels it becomes the same except with DL. Damage happens? Use DL. You still use Holy Light but you don't use it like you used to, the scenarios in which you used to use HL are now scenarios in which you'd react with DL. HL is relegated to a position of "I'll cast this when there's hardly any damage out just so I feel like I'm doing something".

So yes, the situations in which you'd cast HL at low gear become situations at which you cast DL at higher gear.

[Jinivus]

So yes, the situations in which you'd cast HL at low gear become situations at which you cast DL at higher gear.

You're taking how you heal and preaching it as 'THE way we're suppose to heal'.
At the risk of doing it myself, I personally use HL every GCD I'm not using something 'more important'. It's one of the most efficient heals in the game coupled with the 100% Beacon transfer.
The way divine light interacts with tower of radiance and only 50% beacon transfer makes the spells useful in entirely different situations(as well as SOMETIMES the same situation)
That is how I heal, you heal differently, that's fine by me.

Also, on blessed life vs protector of the innocent; blessed life has an 8 second cooldown with 1 OR 2 points in it, so that outlines my opinion on those. I'd probably only put 1 point in it even if it was 33/66/100. POTI may or may not save your life but what it does do is allows you to heal yourself last for more effectiveness.

An actual question;
Do we really not judge whenever possible anymore? I get that the return is less but it's still a return if there's not much healing to be done for a GCD

[Deleted]

You're taking how you heal and preaching it as 'THE way we're suppose to heal'.
At the risk of doing it myself, I personally use HL every GCD I'm not using something 'more important'. It's one of the most efficient heals in the game coupled with the 100% Beacon transfer.
The way divine light interacts with tower of radiance and only 50% beacon transfer makes the spells useful in entirely different situations(as well as SOMETIMES the same situation)
That is how I heal, you heal differently, that's fine by me.

You completely missed the point again. This is why I fucking hate posting on these pally forums, people always preach their "feelings" while completely failing at reading comprehension. Try again:

By your own words: "You use HL every spare GCD". And what do you do when someone takes heavy damage? You bloody well cast Divine Light. HL is relegated to the role of "I will cast this when there's nothing else to do". I said that, you said that. We completely agree on that, so why are you telling me I'm wrong?

Now stop for a second and try to remember about life at low gear levels (ie: the poster who just hit 85). Normal mode 5 mans in blues and greens etc, you sure as hell don't chain cast HL. You CAN'T, if you do then you're a terrible healer that will OOM and wipe. You use HL as an actual heal to handle "real" damage, not just as a filler during "low damage" situations. As you get more gear you can mix more and more DLs into your healing. That doesn't mean you stop using HL, it just means that what you judge to be "high" and "low" damage changes and you start affording more DLs. Therefore DL starts to phase out HL and push it more and more into a different niche. That's not how I FEEL, that is how the game works and that's how pally healing works. I've healed in green back when 5 man heroics were actually hard (before they got nerfed this xpac) and I heal now in heroic DS. The transition to using less HLs and more DLs is a gradual one undergone by EVERY PALADIN.

To put it another way, at low gear levels HL is your bread and butter heal. At mid-high gear levels DL is your bread and butter heal and HL is, as you said, "something you cast when there's nothing more important to do". Perhaps the point is made a bit moot by the fact that it's so very easy to get to mid gear nowadays since 378s are so easy to come by, but for anyone who is still at low gear (<350, bluesm etc.) that point is still very valid.

An actual question;
Do we really not judge whenever possible anymore? I get that the return is less but it's still a return if there's not much healing to be done for a GCD

And to answer your question, no you don't judge on CD or anywhere close to it because there is no return from doing so. In fact it's detrimental to do so now, judging only refreshes the duration of your spirit/haste buff so just like DoTs it's ideal to not refresh it too early because if you do you essentially wasted part of the buff. I still tend to err on the side of caution and judge every 40-50 sec instead of every 60 but there's no reason to judge more frequently than that, it's a waste of mana for 0 gain. Aside from DPS you literally gain nothing by judging more frequently.

[Twiddly]

Some fights you can get away with mostly holy lights..but in any hard mode you simply cannot get away with it. My mana regen is good enough (About 1/4 410 heroic gear at the moment) that my mana goes up when I spam holy light, but if I try to just do that people die obviously.

There is a time and place for HL and DL. There is no "Spam HL the entire fight!" or "Spam DL the entire fight!" (Except heroic spine it seems)

[Balyn]

MUCH TEXT

Ofcourse you use DL more in HC progression than Normal/5man dungs. But then again, how the f can you compare 5man dungs to HC DS?
Makes no sense at all. as you're saying, you should use DL as it was HL. Just use it every GCD like a normal heal which is wrong. Look at ANY video and you'll see, in that case you're the only one.

Start spamming HL when there is pressure up? Only complete morons would do that. If there is much damage, Ofc you use DL, I mean, that's just standard to know. That's like spamming a buff instead a DPS rotation as a DPS, or even tank. I actually think that you're getting mad cause people say something against you and your opinions.

That's how YOU play, which does NOT mean it's the right way. But as I said; Ofc you use DL over HL if there is much DMG in the raid.
Just stop bitch about it.

Text

As said to the other guy; Ofc you use DL more in HC progress than Normal. That's why it's called Heroic, and why it's harder.
I mean, can actually people be that stupid to not understand that them self? I presume both of you got good exp and such but tbh, it comes to personal preferences as well.

To play a holy paladin good or not, that's another thing. A good player know's when to start using heavier(spelling?) heals faster than a lesser good player would. But that's the same thing with everything. Even IRL. Get a new job > takes time to learn. But then again; To be a good player requires you to be yourself and make it work YOUR way.

When I need help with something, I go here or if it's more complicated > Diamondtear/Ilonie on IRC to ask. Mostly I ask their opinions about surten fights and shit, but still it helps me to be a better gamer cause I get more knowledge what to do.

You ask HL vs DL? I say HL all the way.
It's the same thing as discussing "When should I pop my CDs?". You use them when the right time has come.

Feel free to hate me RavenGage, but you're giving bullcrap tips.

[Isolyphic]

Stats and Reforging

Your Status Priority
Intellect > Spirit > Haste > Crit => Mastery > Other
Gem Intellect and bonus sockets Int/Spirit for Blue, Int/Haste for Yellow.
If Gear does not have Spirit, reforge Mastery or Crit to Spirit.
If Gear does not have Haste, reforge Mastery or Crit to Haste.
If Gear has Spirit and Haste, do not reforge.

Your Abilities of your concern

Beacon of Light - Beacon your tank, they get passive heals from all your heals except Judgement cast, Innocent and Holy Radiance.
Judgement - Mana Regen and Haste buff, cast every 55-60 Seconds
Holy Shock - Primary Button, Should remain permanently on Cooldown
Holy Light - Heal Filler
Light of Dawn - Your Holy Power Dump, ignore Word of Glory entirely. This is very powerful when used with Beacon of Light.
Holy Radiance - Your Healing AE. When using Holy Radiance multiple times, do not recast onto the same target, this removes the previous Holy Radiance.
Divine Light - Use at 60% health or less for faster regen.
Flash of Light - Your 'Oh Shit' button, less as little as possible since it's very inefficent for mana.

Cooldowns
Avenging Wrath - Increases your healing by 20%
Divine Favor - Increases Haste and Crit by 20%, best used for heavy group healing.
Guardian of Ancient Kings - Duplicates your heal and splashes your heal.
Hand of Sacrifice - Transfers some damage to you. Helps keep the tank alive.
Divine Protection - 30sec CD 40% Magical Damage reduction when glyphed (RECOMMENDED and used with Hand of Sacrifice), also a speed boost with Speed of Light Talent.

Pre-Battle
Beacon Tank then
(Holy Shock, Holy Light, Holy Light) x3, Light of Dawn - Repeat until the target has about 50k Illumination Shield. You won't have any mana loss as a typical DS geared Paladin will have enough spirit to regen lost mana entirely.

Holy Paladin's primary role for efficent healing should be Tank and Melee Healing thanks to Holy Radiance and Light of Dawn, leave ranged healing to the other healing classes.
Why not Word of Glory? My Light of Dawn heals for more on the tank via Beacon than Word of Glory does.

[halmotors]

An actual question;
Do we really not judge whenever possible anymore? I get that the return is less but it's still a return if there's not much healing to be done for a GCD

I use Power Auras to tell me when my spirit buff has 10 seconds left on it so I can rejudge. Pops a blue icon next to my character when it has 10 seconds left, a red one if it's expired. No real point in doing it more often than that.

[Nillo]

An actual question;
Do we really not judge whenever possible anymore? I get that the return is less but it's still a return if there's not much healing to be done for a GCD

The only thing you gain from judging is a really really minor heal (Enlightened Judgements) which makes it a waste of mana to use it more than once every 60 seconds (You'll usually want to refresh it after 30-50 s sec though to make sure you won't have to judge at an inconvenient time)

[Twiddly]

Are people in here confusing holy light with divine light?

part of Iso's post:

"Beacon Tank then
(Holy Shock, Holy Light, Holy Light) x3, Light of Dawn - Repeat until the target has about 50k Illumination Shield. You won't have any mana loss as a typical DS geared Paladin will have enough spirit to regen lost mana entirely."

holy light does not give holy power, unless you mean holy shock threeX, then light of dawn, over and over again til everyone has a 50k shield..if your raid is patient enough to wait for you to do something completely un-needed like that, which I do not even think is POSSIBLE to keep the shield up with a method such as that..well then you have one patient guild :P

[Tricksterjim]

Beacon tank
Holy Radiance, Holy Radiance , Holy Shock, Light of Dawn. Repeat over and over again. Even if raid/party is taking minimal dmg, you can still do that and out heal everyone else. Judgement at start, and every minute there after. Smack boss for mana if bored.

I wish I was kidding, but that really is the Holy Pally strategy at the moment. Enjoy.

[Deleted]

Completely missed the point a 3rd time in a row. Gonna try once again for a final time:

Ofcourse you use DL more in HC progression than Normal/5man dungs. But then again, how the f can you compare 5man dungs to HC DS?
Makes no sense at all. as you're saying, you should use DL as it was HL.

I never said you use spam DL when there's no damage at all did? Read again. What I said is the exact opposite, I said PEOPLE USED TO USE HL THE WAY THEY NOW USE DL. Get it? And they don't anymore BECAUSE THEY GOT BETTER GEAR. If you're at a point where DL is your main spell for tought damage and HL is your "spam" spell then you're ALREADY AT THE MID-HIGH GEAR LEVEL that I'm talking about and DL has already replaced your HL and pushed it into a different role.

Start spamming HL when there is pressure up? Only complete morons would do that. If there is much damage, Ofc you use DL, I mean, that's just standard to know.

No, 100x no. That is not standard to know, that's standard TO YOU. My whole fucking point is that it's not like that at really low gear levels, HL is your heal for healing damage. When's the last time you healed in greens? At low gear levels for people just starting out (like the OP) who are starting out from scratch (like the OP) in what I assume is regular 5 mans and a few heroic 5s then HL is the primary heal and DL is that thing you rarely look at and use in extreme cases only.

It's not how I fucking heal, it's the way the game works. As you get more gear, you use DL more at the cost of HLs and HL is relegated to a less important role of "spam". As you get to even higher gear levels then HL is relegated even further to the point where on some fights in some cases it's better to just pre-cast DLs than it is to waste time on any HLs at all.

[Twiddly]

Beacon tank
Holy Radiance, Holy Radiance , Holy Shock, Light of Dawn. Repeat over and over again. Even if raid/party is taking minimal dmg, you can still do that and out heal everyone else. Judgement at start, and every minute there after. Smack boss for mana if bored.

I wish I was kidding, but that really is the Holy Pally strategy at the moment. Enjoy.

Good luck with that on certain hard modes, and going oom with the boss at 70%

[Nillo]

Good luck with that on certain hard modes, and going oom with the boss at 70%

I'm pretty sure it works on all bosses up to Ultraxion (Hagara is mostly single target healing though)