1. #1

    Ring of Torn Flesh & EPIC Gem

    I am about to socket my VP ring (the ring of torn flesh) with a epic gem and as per EJ's recommendations i.e. going to drop in a Bold Queen's into the socket and ignore the bonus since it would result in me losing 15 strength vs a 25 mastery gain.

    But before I did this I decided to do some research on how other rets have gemmed the ring and they have gemmed the VP ring with a Skillful Lava Coral. This confuses me, since the EJ FAQ recommends only gemming hybrid when it does not result in the loss of strength via its bonus. Since we're in T13 gear does the value of mastery out perform strength now or is that only applicable for toons who will be heroically geared.

    Will heroic geared toons reach the inflection point where mastery is more important than strength or have I missed something? Is it now better to drop hybrid gems into a single socket item for the bonus because mastery is that good?

    If that is the case then what about the bracer's of destructive strength vs rockhide bracers, one gives at 60 strength value and potential 56 mastery rating vs 138 straight mastery rating.

    Perhaps gemming all red sockets with coral's might be in order.

    I am confused?

    Any help to alleviate this would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    Field Marshal Linkozz's Avatar
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    The last time i ignored socket bonuses and gemmed only red gems was back in T11.
    I think at some point in heroic t12 it was worth getting socket bonuses like +10mastery/hit. looks better

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarojerry View Post
    I am about to socket my VP ring (the ring of torn flesh) with a epic gem and as per EJ's recommendations i.e. going to drop in a Bold Queen's into the socket and ignore the bonus since it would result in me losing 15 strength vs a 25 mastery gain.

    But before I did this I decided to do some research on how other rets have gemmed the ring and they have gemmed the VP ring with a Skillful Lava Coral. This confuses me, since the EJ FAQ recommends only gemming hybrid when it does not result in the loss of strength via its bonus. Since we're in T13 gear does the value of mastery out perform strength now or is that only applicable for toons who will be heroically geared.

    Will heroic geared toons reach the inflection point where mastery is more important than strength or have I missed something? Is it now better to drop hybrid gems into a single socket item for the bonus because mastery is that good?

    If that is the case then what about the bracer's of destructive strength vs rockhide bracers, one gives at 60 strength value and potential 56 mastery rating vs 138 straight mastery rating.

    Perhaps gemming all red sockets with coral's might be in order.

    I am confused?

    Any help to alleviate this would be appreciated.
    As a general rule to all classes it all comes down to stat weights

    the general rule of EJ basically translates 20 main stat(strength int agility) to be worth 50 secondary stat rating (crit,mastery,hit) but its all stat weights

    those can be found from various forums or just simming your gear from simcraft (something i never figured out how to do lol)

    i'll give you some stat weights from askmrrobot

    Strength 2.33
    Hit 1.77
    Expertise 1.30
    Mastery 1.13
    Attack Power 1.00
    Crit 0.98
    Haste 0.79

    basically what that means is each point of strength would net you 2.33 dps and each point of mastery would net you 1.13 dps

    multiply the total strength by the weight (2.33) and add that with the total mastery times the wieght (1.13)

    if it adds up more than just purely strength then its worth it

    simple as that

  4. #4
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    Yes, mid t12 started going for socket bonuses of +10 str or +20/30 mastery (for 2/3 sockets). If you're dropping a str/hit gem into something, though, make sure it doesn't screw over your hit rating.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarojerry View Post
    I am about to socket my VP ring (the ring of torn flesh) with a epic gem and as per EJ's recommendations i.e. going to drop in a Bold Queen's into the socket and ignore the bonus since it would result in me losing 15 strength vs a 25 mastery gain.

    But before I did this I decided to do some research on how other rets have gemmed the ring and they have gemmed the VP ring with a Skillful Lava Coral. This confuses me, since the EJ FAQ recommends only gemming hybrid when it does not result in the loss of strength via its bonus. Since we're in T13 gear does the value of mastery out perform strength now or is that only applicable for toons who will be heroically geared.

    Will heroic geared toons reach the inflection point where mastery is more important than strength or have I missed something? Is it now better to drop hybrid gems into a single socket item for the bonus because mastery is that good?

    If that is the case then what about the bracer's of destructive strength vs rockhide bracers, one gives at 60 strength value and potential 56 mastery rating vs 138 straight mastery rating.

    Perhaps gemming all red sockets with coral's might be in order.

    I am confused?

    Any help to alleviate this would be appreciated.
    Socketing Str & Mastery for a Str bonus has always been viable.

    Strength Value - 2.91
    Mastery Value - 1.85
    Crit Strike Value - 1.79


    Ring of Torn Flesh w/ Bold Garnet

    Strength Value - 301*2.91 = 875.9100000000001
    Mastery Value - 179*1.85 = 331.15
    Crit Strike Value - 157*1.79 = 281.03

    Total Stat Value - 1488.09

    Ring of Torn Flesh w/ Skullful Lava

    Strength Value - 286*2.91 = 832.26
    Mastery Value - 204*1.85 = 377.4
    Crit Strike Value - 157*1.79=281.03

    Total Stat Value - 1490.69

    So is it going to make a difference? No. Are the stat values going to be the same for everyone? No. Simulationcraft will help you get stat values based on your gear and you can gem the best way for your gear.
    Last edited by Requital; 2012-01-13 at 08:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  6. #6
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Socketing Str & Mastery for a Str bonus has always been viable.
    Not true, there have been points (and still are) where pure Str is better in 10 Str sockets.

    However, Requital is right that in Heroic T13 the weights do favor even Epic Orange gems to match 10 Str bonuses.

    Current SimCraft build for Ret T13 Heroic BIS (10000 iterations):
    HIT 6.03
    EXP 4.17
    STR 3.34
    MST 2.41
    CRI 2.03
    HST 1.55
    AP 1.42

    Bold Queen's Garnet would be 50 STR (167 DPS).
    Skillful Lava Coral would be 35 STR (116.9 DPS) and 25 MST (60.25) for a total of 177.15 DPS.
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  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    Not true, there have been points (and still are) where pure Str is better in 10 Str sockets.
    There hasn't been a point in Cata where 10 Strength socket bonus was not worth socketing in a Orange for. The only time there has ever been question was socketing Hit/Str if you were over the Hit cap because then it's lost stats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    There hasn't been a point in Cata where 10 Strength socket bonus was not worth socketing in a Orange for. The only time there has ever been question was socketing Hit/Str if you were over the Hit cap because then it's lost stats.
    I'm pretty sure EJ mentioned that around 376-378 item level is where socketing one hybrid gem for a 10 strength bonus was a gain.

  9. #9
    I do remember that too, pure Stre was undeniable, it wasn't a gain before and the hybridness started to surface mid-firelands.

  10. #10
    Yes, the whole tier 11 we were using rubies (the exception was when we had to match meta conditions, when our current meta gems weren't available).

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Orange and Purple gems have been the best option since they fixed Mastery you guys are on crack.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Orange and Purple gems have been the best option since they fixed Mastery you guys are on crack.
    You just don't remember that. Chaotic Shadowspirit Diamond was the only option for melee, also it has requirements: "more Blue gems than Yellow gems". So we gemmed rubies everywhere with 1 Etched Demonseye.

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