RET - Lets talk haste VS crit

**daneker** · 2012-01-13, 11:29 PM

So i have a few questions for the more exp Ret paladins out there, Ive currently been seeing alot of post here and there on the web in refrence to maybe haste should be a more of a priority when using Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps , vs crit. So im more of a casual player just now getting 1/8H mode this week after killin DW the sword hasnt drop yet for me 10man

But when i get this sword i want to know what is more benificial since its our BIS until further up in Heroic mode. So my question is what is yalls opinion on Crit VS haste are they equal or when im using Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps should i forge more haste(maybe more Procs) then crit or keep them around equal right now oviously mastery i reforge most stuff into after hit and exp cap so leaves me sitting around 3.57%haste and 9.04% crit So WHAT SHOULD I DO WHICH IS MORE USEFUL OR IS COME DOWN TO PREFRENCE PLS HELP ME OOOOOO NOOOOO

thanks yall

**Tehterokkar** · 2012-01-13, 11:34 PM

I thought Retribution haste reforging was killed with the fix to Gurthalak?

**anthony** · 2012-01-13, 11:36 PM

Gem intellect in all slots.

**Kisko** · 2012-01-13, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by anthony

Gem intellect in all slots.

This. .

...THIS ^ is considered spam.

~Fiddlesnarf

**daneker** · 2012-01-14, 12:19 AM

Kisko why are you trolling me too ive been reading you post and lookin up to you gear for awhile on the fourms i was hoping you have a idea or suggestion. But thanks man

**davep** · 2012-01-14, 01:05 AM

Crit > Haste because our 2nd BiS weapon which is easily attainable scales with crit more then it does haste.

**palladish** · 2012-01-14, 01:07 AM

Answer your own question, if you've got the talent that makes CS shorter cd with haste then there you go

**Butosai** · 2012-01-14, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by palladish

Answer your own question, if you've got the talent that makes CS shorter cd with haste then there you go

uhhhhhh

**Kisko** · 2012-01-14, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by daneker

Kisko why are you trolling me too ive been reading you post and lookin up to you gear for awhile on the fourms i was hoping you have a idea or suggestion. But thanks man

Well, it was stated long ago that Mastery > Crit > Haste and nothing changed since then, so I don't think this question needs another thread to discuss.

It is true regardless of weapon you are using.
On the side note, you should be looking forward to heroic axe from Yorsahj, not to a normal Gurthalak - it is inferior weapon now.

**Jonuts** · 2012-01-14, 01:42 AM

Rule of thumb: Mastery>haste/crit (your choice). Really, once you're hit/exp capped, as long as you're prioritizing mastery, you're not really doing it wrong.

"I'm willing to check spreadsheets" answer: Then you don't need to be asking.

"I'm a terribly advanced user" answer: Mastery:Haste:crit at a 1.2:1:1 ratio. Maybe. Based of light testing by exemplar. More testing recommended, but no one cbf to really test this out, so it's a postulated theory with a limited amount of (outdated) evidence to back it up, but the evidence is solid enough that if you're trying to squeeze out every last drop of DPS, it's worth investigating.

**anaxie** · 2012-01-14, 04:33 AM

contrary to what anything says in the supposed haste=crit never happened, good rets never have and never will stack haste this expansion since Hand of light was implemented. Anything saying otherwise is from an inexperienced source or total BS.

**Jonuts** · 2012-01-14, 04:54 AM

contrary to what anything says in the supposed haste=crit never happened, good rets never have and never will stack haste this expansion since Hand of light was implemented. Anything saying otherwise is from an inexperienced source or total BS.

Exemplar from EJ isn't really an "inexperienced" source. His spreadsheet and Simcraft disagree. They both looked at eachothers work and couldn't find fault, and agreed to disagree. Any theoretical difference between the two falls within the margin of error you get for playing such an RNG heavy class. So really, just take your pick. At the least, I'd recommend picking up enough haste to bring you down to a 3s CS under heroism.

Top end rets preferred crit to haste mainly for stacking "on crit" trinkets. At this time (and really, for a while), the theorycrafting community is split haste/crit, so there isn't a "wrong" answer.

**Kisko** · 2012-01-14, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Jonuts

Exemplar from EJ isn't really an "inexperienced" source. His spreadsheet and Simcraft disagree. They both looked at eachothers work and couldn't find fault, and agreed to disagree. Any theoretical difference between the two falls within the margin of error you get for playing such an RNG heavy class. So really, just take your pick. At the least, I'd recommend picking up enough haste to bring you down to a 3s CS under heroism.

Top end rets preferred crit to haste mainly for stacking "on crit" trinkets. At this time (and really, for a while), the theorycrafting community is split haste/crit, so there isn't a "wrong" answer.

Yes, he is. And it's not the margin of error and good rets know it.

Thing is, SimCraft 100k iterations approach is, by definition, far more accurate than bunch of excel formulas, where, as we all remember, Exemplar already been caught by doing quite a dumb mistakes (SoT damage, anyone?).

So, this time, no one had the time to really dig into his crap to find this haste-overvalue bug, but it's there and if you start checking reforging of top-ranked Rets you will see that people aware of that.

**anaxie** · 2012-01-14, 05:51 PM

Kisko if I could Hi-five that post I would.

also "reccomend enough haste for 3 second CS under heroism" You do understand that means 1% haste right? sadly we can't dip below 4% ever. What a shame.

---------- Post added 2012-01-14 at 05:55 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Tehterokkar

I thought Retribution haste reforging was killed with the fix to Gurthalak?

Can't kill something that never existed.

---------- Post added 2012-01-14 at 05:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by davep

Crit > Haste because our 2nd BiS weapon which is easily attainable scales with crit more then it does haste.

That isn't why.... Gurth doesn't even scale with haste it does scale with crit though.

**Butosai** · 2012-01-14, 11:22 PM

Exemplar, experienced, lol? the only thing hes experienced at is math. His theories and spreadsheets and whatnot are all dogshit as is 90% of the posters on EJ.

**Huntingbear_grimbatol** · 2012-01-14, 11:38 PM

our current haste requirement to make crusader strike 3sec CD is somewhere closer to 4k, with 2piece T13 it's not nearly as good as it used to be any haste before that is going to minimal dps increase. Crit, despite being rng, is better in the long run, which we have to look at when determining what's better. Besides, if you're using Apperatus of Kaz'Goroth (which gains stacks from crits) then crit is also going to be your better stat. Apperatus HC might still be BiS for retris in some fights, hope the flamewars above won't fall down on be (bet they will anyways) but I hope your answers are found somewhere here anyways :3

**anthell** · 2012-01-14, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Butosai

Exemplar, experienced, lol? the only thing hes experienced at is math. His theories and spreadsheets and whatnot are all dogshit as is 90% of the posters on EJ.

i cant help but LOL-ed when i saw this =)

FULL RESPECT TO U SIR!!

i gave up on EJ when i got an infraction for no punctuation/capitalization. Im glad i have my own means to find out numbers instead of relying on others lolz

**Huntingbear_grimbatol** · 2012-01-14, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Butosai

Exemplar, experienced, lol? the only thing hes experienced at is math. His theories and spreadsheets and whatnot are all dogshit as is 90% of the posters on EJ.

I agree, I'd much rather trust/follow someone experienced at something than following someone that doesn't have the experience to back up his numbers.

**The Ogdru Jahad** · 2012-01-15, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by palladish

Answer your own question, if you've got the talent that makes CS shorter cd with haste then there you go

lol this is so wrong. Do not listen to this guy trying to +1 his post count.

That talent is completely broken since (and correct me if I'm wrong this patch), isn't even useful considering it isn't possible to attain enough haste to lower the GCD of CS to a point that'll fit properly in your priority list rotaiton.

**Borigrad** · 2012-01-15, 01:25 AM

I don't even need to have kept playing to answer this one.

Crit>Haste, but extra haste is always helpful. Simply because of the way Consecration and Zeal (i think that's the Seals name now?) work. So it always helps with the procc rate if you have a lot of crit.

I'd go into it a lot more but i am only visiting. Wanted to see how the old group was doing.

Edit: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post12764372

That's the post i made about haste and crit the last time i was visiting.

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