If Guild Wars 2 isn't good...

[Edge-]

GW2 will be interesting, just like SWTOR was, but it's still an MMORPG. I'm amazed at all of the people who walk into an MMORPG and expect it to be something else. I might try GW2 briefly, but I doubt I'll stay as I've grown majorly sick of the questing experience (especially after being spoiled by Bioware in SWTOR) and other grinds associated with MMORPGs.

I suggest you look into the dynamic events and personal story then. GW2 is one of the few MMO's to break away from the traditional leveling quest grind.

[Fencers]

I think there is a general misconeption about what deems an mmo a failure as well on the forums and in general. I don't want to go off topic, but I think a lot of people are misconstruing that when some people mean "an mmo failed" they think that we mean the business model failed and that the game is also a complete and utter failure. But in actuallity we mean something different.

Yea, agree. I just put into words badly. x_x

Wat I personally see as a failure for an mmo is an mmo that tries to adopt the WoW model of marketing and playstyle and expecting to be as successful if not more successful than WoW, in other words, MMO's designed to be "WoW killers".

But how many really do this, honestly? Or rather, how much of it is players wanting an MMO to tarnish the Blizz crown?

I can only really think of two MMOs that failed as you outline in the terms of; "wow killer". Warhammer and Age of Conan, in which their developers, publishers and marketing kinda positioned them as such.

Sure, Rift and TOR stick quite close to the WoW style of gameplay. But those two games didn't really come out with the whole "wow killer" tag so much as over eager fans wanted to feel that way.

About the worse Rift did was make an advert of "We're not in Azertoh anymore" (which they admitted was cheeky fun over & over) and one of their senior investors making a jab when Blizz quarterly reported a loss of subs. Which was kinda after the game had been released for a few months and gained a following through word of mouth mostly.

Aion never fit that wow killer build. That was almost totally over zealous fans. Likewise, Bioware/EA were mostly gracious to Blizzard's titan. Pun intended, natch!

So, yea. I am not sure many MMOs fail by that criteria other than to individual players. For sure, many are tired of those 16+ year systems of loot/trinity/raids/etc. Though failed? By those terms? Not so sure about the accuracy of that, tbh.

These mmos of course have their subscriberbase and by al means are successful as games go, its just I consider them failures because the developers did not meet their goal of obtaining the amount of success they were striving for.

Yea, but is that reasonable or fair?

Naturally, every developer would love to have Warcraft's success. No one creates a game to be unsuccessful. Perhaps I posted this in another thread, but the factors that led to Warcraft being what is clearly a cultural phenomenon are sorta a one-n-done thing. Doubtful many developers intend to garner 10 million subs with the first year even. Doubtful even more so many are developed with the intention to grab a quarter of that number, frankly.

The MMO market is far more fragmented. Most likely we will never see another MMO with the inertia of Warcraft that got us to where we are at now. I am doubly unsure of using Warcraft's numbers as a yardstick of success is even reasonable. What even comes close.. Runescape? Possibly.

Just almost nothing will reach those numbers. I think SWTOR, Rift and Aion tried to make good games that sold well and they could make a profit on. Which they did in their terms. "Killing WoW" or, in another light, failing to meet the cultural impact and marketing muscle of Warcraft kinda wasn't ever possible.

[Deleted]

It cant be bad for me. Only thing would be extreme class imbalances so you only see one in battlegrounds... and if my computer wont run it properly =)
If things are too extreme for some wierd reasons (they somehow decide to rush the game (?) and it has too many bugs), I actually enjoy playing Rift.

[Melpo]

Um, where exactly did Rift fail?

Regular, new content. People actually go out in the world. Beautiful game world. Lots of features that WoW does not have. Huge amount of end-game content.

I am constantly flabbergasted at why people say it has failed? IMO, it's better than WoW in almost every way. Only thing I think it does not have is Arena.

Also, people need to get it into their heads that in a PvP battleground, classes don't have to be 1v1 balanced. Do you bring 20 tanks to a raid? Do you bring 20mages? No. You bring a combination of healers/dps. PvP is a team sport. I swear some people are just born illogical.

In what battle do you bring only archers, only infantry? In a team game, classes don't have to be balanced. This is a point that Blizzard has missed. There are countless ways to respec and you can have up to 5 different talent trees.

Always seems to be something to do. Have you played Rift lately?

I used to always go back to WoW after a break from MMO's. Now, I go back to Rift.

[Lothaeryn]

Agreed, I wanted to put in aremark that WoW's sucess really was a fluke, but it never made it in there.

The other thing I think may be contributing to my bias is that most MMO's that came out didn't see to bring much to the tale, or had very little difference in the features they released the game with, and I felt that they didn't really feel like they were trying hard enough to really make a system or feature that was truly noteworthy that few or no other MMO implemented before, the word innovation comes to mind but I feel like I'm tossing that word around too often as well

[Fencers]

I am constantly flabbergasted at why people say it has failed? IMO, it's better than WoW in almost every way. Only thing I think it does not have is Arena.

Again, merely personal expectation. A lot of folks came into Rift (and TOR) wanting a greater departure from the Warcraft style of MMOs.

Granted, both Rift and TOR offer some fresh features of their own and often handle game elements differently from Warcraft- Rift souls system, Mass Star Wars Effect storytelling, etc.

Though mostly Rift and TOR are structurally the same as Warcraft. Not that this is bad, per se. Just the game in their mind's eye is not the one on their hard drive.

I greatly enjoy Rift and TOR personally. [SF raid team in both games! Holla! <3 My guild!]

[Layuth]

DAOC2.

I am there!

[Deleted]

Um, where exactly did Rift fail?

Regular, new content. People actually go out in the world. Beautiful game world. Lots of features that WoW does not have. Huge amount of end-game content.

I am constantly flabbergasted at why people say it has failed? IMO, it's better than WoW in almost every way. Only thing I think it does not have is Arena.

Also, people need to get it into their heads that in a PvP battleground, classes don't have to be 1v1 balanced. Do you bring 20 tanks to a raid? Do you bring 20mages? No. You bring a combination of healers/dps. PvP is a team sport. I swear some people are just born illogical.

In what battle do you bring only archers, only infantry? In a team game, classes don't have to be balanced. This is a point that Blizzard has missed. There are countless ways to respec and you can have up to 5 different talent trees.

Always seems to be something to do. Have you played Rift lately?

I used to always go back to WoW after a break from MMO's. Now, I go back to Rift.

Well there are usually several numbers of the class that are OP, even in raids. You cant take more tanks or healers than needed, and when it comes to healing if someone is too strong you probably take less healers... but of the strong one.
People tend to play the OP classes, for many reasons likely, and it's not fun in pvp to have battlegrounds flooded with OP classes that you know are strong because of class imbalances in game.. not because of players actual skills and that's what GW2 are going away from. Since they are balancing gear to pvp in, it would be sad if they failed on the classes... especially since they don't have too many of them.
Personally, I usually play the underdog anyway because a kill with them means more to me than a kill with a class that you know perform much better than... say underdogs, just because it's how game is designed. But overall I think that the more balance, the more interesting games in pvp. Just because one team got more players of class x, means they can graveyard camp the team who doesn't.
In Rift they are working on the rank imbalances now, I hope that will make the games more interesting =)

[Melpo]

Well there are usually several numbers of the class that are OP, even in raids. You cant take more tanks or healers than needed, and when it comes to healing if someone is too strong you probably take less healers... but of the strong one.
People tend to play the OP classes, for many reasons likely, and it's not fun in pvp to have battlegrounds flooded with OP classes that you know are strong because of class imbalances in game.. not because of players actual skills and that's what GW2 are going away from. Since they are balancing gear to pvp in, it would be sad if they failed on the classes... especially since they don't have too many of them.
Personally, I usually play the underdog anyway because a kill with them means more to me than a kill with a class that you know perform much better than... say underdogs, just because it's how game is designed. But overall I think that the more balance, the more interesting games in pvp. Just because one team got more players of class x, means they can graveyard camp the team who doesn't.
In Rift they are working on the rank imbalances now, I hope that will make the games more interesting =)

I hear you, and agree mostly, but my personal opinion is still that Trion seem to work harder, deliver the goods better. I have confidence in their abilities to fix most problems.

That said - I am anxiously waiting to see Tera or GW2 and a host of other MMO's in 2012. Rift still remains my "filler" rather than WoW. In my opinion, the only game/expansion that has failed to keep my interest is WoW at the moment.

[Blufossa]

If it isn't "good" the world still won't end.

I, for one, will probably enjoy it regardless of what the Bandwagon will say about it (most of them have condemned WoW since Wrath, which is hilarious).

[Uwibami]

I know how you feel OP. We always want new and exciting stuff, so every time we try a new MMO, and it turns out to be a massive grindfest and the exact same quests as all other MMO's, we get disappointed.

I'm excited for GW2 aswell, and yes there will be similarities aswell. I do however have a feeling, that GW2 will still manage to feel somewhat different. There's no specific healer, or tank class. There's just you, and your own skills. I do think that might spice things up a bit, as I know there will definitely be quests of "Go to X and kill Z amount of Y"

But only time will tell. And since GW2 is a one time fee, I can't see a reason to not try it out atleast. ;D

[Chronius]

Aion?
/10char

Never got aboard that one =)



BTW, Tera online. How is that combat wise? From reading about it, it seems somewhat action oriented like they want to do in GW2

[Deleted]

I hope gw2 will live up to it's expactations. The leveling looks great and not boring. The only thing I am worried about atm is endgame content, if it will appael to both hardcore and normal players. So far I haven't seen any super hard bosses and some people will like that but others want some extra challenges.

[Fencers]

I hope gw2 will live up to it's expactations. The leveling looks great and not boring. The only thing I am worried about atm is endgame content, if it will appael to both hardcore and normal players. So far I haven't seen any super hard bosses and some people will like that but others want some extra challenges.

Supposedly, we are told the exploration mode dungeons are challenging and some special DEs have tough bosses. It's somewhat up in the air the degree to which that will satiate hardcore players of other MMOs long term. And how quickly Anet will push new dungeons out.

The impulses of hardcore PVE players in other games is somewhat different than GW2's design premise. More importantly than challenge is exclusivity.

[pharaum]

if GW2 isent good then i will put myself into a coma until titan is out, if thats not good then i will lose all will to live and end this pitiful existence where there are no good mmos

[ProfessorTjc]

I took a raid on the Rift and Swtor fail train.

[zcks]

if GW2 isent good then i will put myself into a coma until titan is out, if thats not good then i will lose all will to live and end this pitiful existence where there are no good mmos

Titan may have good PvE but given the fact that Tiggole was put in charge of it you must realize the class balance is most likely going to be absolutely horrible.


For those who don't know Tiggole has a long history of making sure certain classes were the way they were, like rogues in vanilla, TBC etc... when they could CC multiple people to death at once while being one of the only viable melee dps.

[worprz]

I am confident that GW2 is going to be great! I haven't been this excited for an mmo ever. I can't wait to just explore the world and just have fun while playing like when I first started wow/ other mmo's. And even if GW2 isn't good I will be fine, life goes on

[insmek]

Well... Titan will be a MMO-shoot'em'up, it's not like any of the general MMO-RPG, but a fresh story/gameplay/design would be refreshing...

You have inside info on that one, or are you just assuming like everyone else has been?

[zcks]

I'm excited for GW2 aswell, and yes there will be similarities aswell. I do however have a feeling, that GW2 will still manage to feel somewhat different. There's no specific healer, or tank class. There's just you, and your own skills. I do think that might spice things up a bit, as I know there will definitely be quests of "Go to X and kill Z amount of Y"

This ^ excites me as well.

Though as far as the quests go from what I have read about them they seem to be allot better then most in WoW. This is because they seem to be taking the idea of Phasing & quests effecting your personal story to the extreme which should make the story very personal.


I am also very hopeful about there class balance since they have a much better record then the people at WoW who they split off from.