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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by videotape View Post
    but unless you would be willing throw away your own rights for that shiny piece of shit iPad, you should really think twice about what kind of horror your money directly support. Or just shrug it off, play with your gadget in ignorance, get fat, and die stupid. That works too.
    I like my iPhone, no I am not willing to throw away MY right to obtain one, I wouldn't mind throwing away someone else's right for one though.

    This doesn't happen to strickly phones, if you are such a white knight about this topic, there are A LOT of things (mainly technology based, like TV, computer components and such) have the same issue, you better look at each computer components you are using and where they source their factories. Clothing is another thing, a lot of brand will have factories in China and have the same issue, some are reported for and ignored (people prefer their clothings to stay cheap), some are just never reported.

    You can be a white knight in this case, but if you are ignorant in other cases (clothings, other technology gadgets), you are just as ignorant as the one you call ignorants.

    This world will NEVER be an ideal world, until the country is developed things like child labour will always happen, Europe and US had their fair share of slavery and child labour back in the days, we just came out of it once we are developed, same for those countries, they just need to get out of that era first, until then, it is the norm for them, thinking you can just change it all by protesting against it or stop buying iPhone is just silly. In fact, those children can now at least have a meal, if the Apple now stop using them, unless the factory find itself another client, the child is making NOTHING and is going to starve.

    So until then, I will play with my gadget in ignorance, get fat and die stupid, but I am happy.

  2. #42
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    Like America really cares? We got our iPhone 4s, sounds like a personal problem.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by energumeno View Post
    Those children do not want to work, the want to be happy, a fucked up society pretty much MAKES them work. Some people could say this is the libertarian dream, a country where the government does not create school neither provides basic health care for the poor. Where it is nearly impossible to get a better life unless you are born into a rich family.
    China do not have free education and health care like US and many European countries do, if you want to go to school, you need money, if that child needed to go to work in the first place, very likely if he isn't working he wouldn't be able to go to school either, just starve. Now look at China on the world map, and population, it is NOT feasable to suddenly demand free education and such, it just isn't possible. China is developING, once it is fully developed it will start looking at these problems, but they need to get there first.

    Implying laws for minimum wage is risk in China, many companies outsource to China due to it is cheap. If suddenly they put the price up, companies will start comparing, China, India, and other possibilities to get the best deal, chances are China will actually lose money if they imply a minimum wage law.

    And be fair, the companies are not there to think for China's future, they are there to think for their company's future, which I totally agree, as they have their shareholders to answer to, it is their job, and their very own future depends on it. It is human nature to look after yourself first, and it is also nature for a company to look at its own profit figures (afterall they are not charity, they are there to make money), if you think companies should care about those ethics more than profits you are lying to yourself.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Diggasson View Post
    Are you serious?
    If only the Joker's catchphrase was this instead.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil View Post
    And a new low has been achieved by humanity today: supporting child labour. What's next, supporting pedophilia?
    Already happened, http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSto...9#.TwudYPkVc9u

    Greece now see pedophilia as a disability and they get a higher disability pay than someone who did an organ transplant.

    So pretty much they are paid to be a pedophile.

  6. #46
    Warchief Knight Gil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    China do not have free education and health care like US and many European countries do, if you want to go to school, you need money, if that child needed to go to work in the first place, very likely if he isn't working he wouldn't be able to go to school either, just starve. Now look at China on the world map, and population, it is NOT feasable to suddenly demand free education and such, it just isn't possible. China is developING, once it is fully developed it will start looking at these problems, but they need to get there first.

    Implying laws for minimum wage is risk in China, many companies outsource to China due to it is cheap. If suddenly they put the price up, companies will start comparing, China, India, and other possibilities to get the best deal, chances are China will actually lose money if they imply a minimum wage law.

    And be fair, the companies are not there to think for China's future, they are there to think for their company's future, which I totally agree, as they have their shareholders to answer to, it is their job, and their very own future depends on it. It is human nature to look after yourself first, and it is also nature for a company to look at its own profit figures (afterall they are not charity, they are there to make money), if you think companies should care about those ethics more than profits you are lying to yourself.
    Yes, they should care about those ethics more than profits. Underage labour has absolutely no place no matter where it happens. That's why there are laws protecting minors from that kind of abuse, einstein. Laws are to be followed.


    Already happened, http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireSto...9#.TwudYPkVc9u

    Greece now see pedophilia as a disability and they get a higher disability pay than someone who did an organ transplant.

    So pretty much they are paid to be a pedophile.
    That's not supporting pedophilia.
    Last edited by Knight Gil; 2012-01-14 at 10:57 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil View Post
    Yes, they should care about those ethics more than profits.
    At this current economy climate, if they do that, there will be A LOT more companies folding and unemplyment rate would sky rocket.

    See my other link above, it might have burst your last bit of faith in humanity.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Xevan View Post
    http://www.apple.com/supplierrespons...y/reports.html

    In 2011, we conducted 229 audits throughout our supply chain —an 80 percent increase over 2010 —including more than 100 first-time audits. We continue to expand our program to reach deeper into our supply base, and this year we added more detailed and specialized audits that focus on safety and the environment.

    Apple-designed training programs have educated more than one million supply chain employees about local laws, their rights as workers, occupational health and safety, and Apple’s Supplier Code of Conduct.

    Our audits have always checked for compliance with environmental standards. In 2011, in addition to our standard audits, we launched a specialized auditing program to address environmental concerns about certain suppliers in China. Third-party environmental engineering experts worked with our team to conduct detailed audits at 14 facilities. We uncovered some violations and worked with our suppliers to correct the issues. We will expand our environmental auditing program in the coming year.

    We have a zero-tolerance policy for underage labor, and we believe our system is the toughest in the electronics industry. In 2011, we broadened our age verification program and saw dramatic improvements in hiring practices by our suppliers. Cases of underage labor were down significantly, and our audits found no underage workers at our final assembly suppliers.

    We offer continuing education opportunities at our suppliers’ facilities free of charge. More than 60,000 workers have enrolled in classes to study business and entrepreneurship, improve their computer skills, or learn English. And the curriculum continues to expand. We’ve also partnered with some local universities to offer courses that employees can apply toward an associate degree.
    Was completely ignored, funny. I'm not in support of child labor in any way but there is also a truth that I don't live in this situation. I've gone through many hardships, mostly when I was a child, that were a result of being very poor. Because of that experience I could only imagine how much worse it would have been in a setting like some countries are, neither can most of you. You can't sit here rather you feel one way or the other and say with any credibility about how this and that is wrong. I'll remind you that when it comes down to it and it's either survive or perish, most will choose to act out of self preservation and do what they can.

  9. #49
    The number of people who seem to think they're doing the right thing by supporting child labor is humorous. You can buy your iPhones all you want; I would too, but don't pretend you're doing anyone any favors.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    At this current economy climate, if they do that, there will be A LOT more companies folding and unemplyment rate would sky rocket.
    I would, without a shadow of a doubt, rather vote for a government that cares about ethics more than profits.

  11. #51
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    At this current economy climate, if they do that, there will be A LOT more companies folding and unemplyment rate would sky rocket.
    Funny. That didn't happen when slavery ended. That didn't happen when child labour in the western world ended. That didn't happen after people started having protection from labour exploitation after the industrial revolution. And people have been using your argument over all that time. Besides, are you seriously implying that prohibiting those companies from exploiting children that work almost for free and giving those jobs to decently paid adults...there would be less jobs instead of more?

    Dear sir, would you kindly stop saying such retarded bullshit?

    <Infracted>
    Last edited by Dacien; 2012-01-15 at 12:50 AM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    but don't pretend you're doing anyone any favors.
    I am doing the company a favour by buying their product, so they can continue to create better products in the future.

    I never plan to buy my iPhone in order to support humanity.

  13. #53
    We (the American citizens) were taught for the past 40 to 50 years that factory jobs are terrible ways to make a living only fit for the uneducated who will have no hope of social mobility. So now instead of something like a 2.5% or so unemployment rate thanks to a thriving manufacturing industry, we shipped all those jobs overseas and have somewhere around a hundred thousand unemployed/under-empoyed people with college degrees who could not even get a full-time job a WalMart or McDonalds because the degree makes them over-qualified.
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    I never plan to buy my iPhone in order to support humanity.
    Then you are not the target of my post. Should have been obvious.

    Not that an exchange of money for goods is a favor, anyways.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil View Post
    Funny. That didn't happen when slavery ended. That didn't happen when child labour in the western world ended. That didn't happen after people started having protection from labour exploitation after the industrial revolution.
    I am sorry, I will go back and check, I didn't know when those happened we were also at a global economy recession at the time which you should thanks God when you are actually employed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight Gil View Post
    Besides, are you seriously implying that prohibiting those companies from exploiting children that work almost for free and giving those jobs to decently paid adults...there would be less jobs instead of more?
    If companies are folding, yes there will be less jobs.

    Jobs don't appear out of no where, if a company is closing down, expect a fair number of people start going on benefits.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pogoball View Post
    We (the American citizens) were taught for the past 40 to 50 years that factory jobs are terrible ways to make a living only fit for the uneducated who will have no hope of social mobility. So now instead of something like a 2.5% or so unemployment rate thanks to a thriving manufacturing industry, we shipped all those jobs overseas and have somewhere around a hundred thousand unemployed/under-empoyed people with college degrees who could not even get a full-time job a WalMart or McDonalds because the degree makes them over-qualified.
    Oh, but child labour will solve unemployment and allow the creation of new companies and products.

    DERP

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pogoball View Post
    We (the American citizens) were taught for the past 40 to 50 years that factory jobs are terrible ways to make a living only fit for the uneducated who will have no hope of social mobility. So now instead of something like a 2.5% or so unemployment rate thanks to a thriving manufacturing industry, we shipped all those jobs overseas and have somewhere around a hundred thousand unemployed/under-empoyed people with college degrees who could not even get a full-time job a WalMart or McDonalds because the degree makes them over-qualified.
    I am sure if they agree with the same wages that they would have paid outsource (and assuming the law allows them), they happily keep the jobs in the US.

    It is all about the money.

  18. #58
    Disgusting.

    FairTrade, that's what a huge company as Apple should aim at, just like Ben & Jerry's.
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  19. #59
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    I am sorry, I will go back and check, I didn't know when those happened we were also at a global economy recession at the time which you should thanks God when you are actually employed.
    as far as I know, no global economy recession was caused by child labour

    If companies are folding, yes there will be less jobs.
    absence of child labour is not the reason they are folding. Actually, it's the exact opposite. Because everyone buys from china, law-abiding companies don't sell as much. How the hell is that right, either ethically or economically?

  20. #60


    This is relevant to the child labor topic.

    Its like one of those NBC The More You Know things.
    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells
    You don't get to troll, lie, and treat government like a game for your own purposes and then expect to be treated like a statesmen. Fuck that.

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