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  1. #201
    Stood in the Fire Eggwolls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimzum2523 View Post
    I think Wotlk dungeons really were just right, Sure they were super easy once you out geared them by so much (just like cata heroics are now) but when they were brand new I remember plenty of wipes and that was even before LFD so we were wiping with pre built groups
    Yes, I agree. However, no one remembers those early Wrath days clearly. /:

  2. #202
    Dreadlord
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    Heroic mode dungeons will not be as difficult as they were in Cataclysm, instead they will be similar to the Wrath of the Lich King level difficulty. R.I.P

  3. #203
    I just pray that they make the heroic raids worth while.

  4. #204
    Bloodsail Admiral hiragana's Avatar
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    cc sucks. its NOT hard its just tedious when you dont have a decent group comp. Im all for bringing back wrath heroics and then getting my challenging content from challenge mode. I just hope they make the medals HARD to get, that way even casuals can show they are better than heroic raiders because its down to skill not just gear/how long you have to play every night.

  5. #205
    I keep seeing excuses like the challenges are meant to bridge the gap, but they're only extending the issue and making it worse. Now most casuals will just shift their complaints to challenge mode being too hard. They need to stop cow towing to the casual player base. It's a sect of players that will ultimately never be happy until this game is reduced to Hello Kitty Island Adventure. They turned gearing from a 4-6 month affair down to about a day or so. They've gone too far in the other direction and it's going to only hurt the game more as time goes on. Every tier gets released and casual players get bored faster slamming heroics and now LFR to get geared in the first week or 2, then returning to their daily grind. The gear doesn't have the epic feel of BC and prior gear because you didn't have to work that hard for it. I understand that they wanted more people to raid, but they went to far in changing gear from a reward based on time and hard work to an overnight affair. Because gear is acquired so easily it becomes trivialized and doesn't mean nearly as much. It's hard to take pride in gear that is practically thrown at you. I guess that's what casuals wanted though, free gear.

  6. #206
    Herald of the Titans The Illusive Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    Yes, I agree. However, no one remembers those early Wrath days clearly. /:
    Seems so. The HCs where difficult at the beginning of Wrath too. I seems everyone is just remembering the nerfed HC. Sad

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    Yes, I agree. However, no one remembers those early Wrath days clearly. /:
    Its not about the boss difficulty, it is about the trash. TBC trash mods hit so hard that you have to crowd control or it will be a wipe.
    I still remember we can aoeing everything in Utgarde Keep then Ingvar one-shot the tank with smash.
    Oh well, but back in early wrath, tank was the top dps.
    Last edited by good diu bro; 2012-01-17 at 09:56 AM.
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  8. #208
    Scarab Lord snuzzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggwolls View Post
    Yes, I agree. However, no one remembers those early Wrath days clearly. /:
    Certain fights were hard for certain classes and comps because they lacked the tools necessary to combat the mechanics. That's not the same as Cata's "overall challenging" philosophy. It just meant I cried when I had to heal a fight with a lot of AOE damage on my paladin (like the first boss in heroic Gun'Drak).

    Anyway, I jut want the difficulty to stick. As it I right now, dungeons are only challenging anymore if you're a freshly dinged healer and you get a freshly dinged tank who thinks he's in WOTLK zerg mode.our gear simply scales too quickly for any real lingering challenge, and then on top of that he dungeons are nerfed. If you don't raid (I know, most people do now that it's so accessable) you have no challenging PVE content, ad that's not very fun.
    Last edited by snuzzle; 2012-01-17 at 02:02 PM.
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  9. #209
    Isnt it kinda silly to put Main hands in hunters transmog list, when their real main weapons are ranged???

  10. #210
    The Lightbringer Ciddy's Avatar
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    I'm all for harder heroics and emphasis on CC. The only problem I have with the whole CC thing is the fact that I play a fury warrior. It REALLY sucked for me at the beginning of Cataclysm when I had to wait in queue for 45 minutes then be told "sorry bro we need someone with CC to do this" and kicked.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I was thinking this too, you could skip all the trash and get right to the bosses
    Link the trash to the bosses. Problem solved!

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 08:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by snuzzle View Post
    Mechanar, Steamvaults, Magister's Terrace... stuff you can't just faceroll. CC, interrupts, coordination are all needed! Think similar to the difficulty between normal/raid finder/ heroic raids.
    You had me until you listed the easiest dungeons of all time. Seriously, unless you really sucked those dungeons were beyond easy. The only remotely hard heroic in all of TBC was heroic Shattered Halls and even that was cake if you had a paladin tank. If you were lucky enough to have a paladin tank the entire expansion was AOE pulls. The problem wasn't that trash was hard it was that any tank besides a paladin couldn't hold AOE aggro.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 08:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Soahar View Post
    Maybe it's because they realized that most players aren't in solid 10/25 guilds, and yet a disproportionate amount of every patch is content for these people. So blizz decided to devote development time to cover a larger group of their players
    With an aging target population, the people that could once devote time to guilds are now devoting time to their actual lives. The result is that Blizzard had to invent systems that would allow people to play less often and still progress. The start of that was LFR. You can have your character through LFR and done with their weekly Valor cap in around 4 hours now. The rest of the week you don't need to do anything, so you can focus on your actual life.
    I used to be hardcore, then I discovered how fun it is to get laid on an almost daily basis. I'll take sex over WoW any day, so now I'm casual.

  12. #212
    As a Paladin tank through all of BC (except for holy the first 3-4 months), heroics were NOT that hard. I was in a guild full of clueless people that only played together because they were an extended RL group of friends/family. Tbh, the only heroic that I had to CC on was MGT and in that case, a warlock, rogue OR mage was sufficient. By the time my average item level was 131 (just slightly past tier 4), we were selling trial of the naaru runs for 100g a person and finishing them with 25 minutes on the timer. I didn't like SL or AC because they both had copious amounts of trash that wasn't particularly hard, just high health and tedious to pull. A lot of heroics, however, were similar to Cata release at first when I healed them. They weren't 3 hours wipe fests, though. A good tank and 1 or 2 well placed cc's were perfectly fine for running heroics. My tank friend and I could make it through all except SL, SH and AC in less than an hour. I am fine with the model they are going for with two strict conditions: 1) Easier, faster trash is fine as long as bosses can still wipe groups. Cata had decent bosses. Most pugs and groups could down bosses in a few attempts. It was just the painful trash pulls in some heroics that would total people. The most wipes I ever had in a random group was 12 on Karsh Steelbender the 5th day of the xpac. Everything else went down in 5 or less the first time. Imo, the trash pulls should be about 4-8 between bosses (4 if they're tougher 4-5 pulls, 8 if they're small pulls). The pack should have 1 target that's particularly potent and needs to be cc'd or focused. But in general the rest can just be held by the tank and aoe'd or single targeted down. 2) Challenge modes need to be sufficiently challenging. I want to have a release of nerdrage when I beat the gold medal 15-20% (3-4 stack) debuff and move up a rung on the totem pole. There really should be extra incentive for completing them, too. Like valor point rewards for completing it on challenge mode and justice points for regular.

  13. #213
    Scarab Lord snuzzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daez View Post
    You had me until you listed the easiest dungeons of all time. Seriously, unless you really sucked those dungeons were beyond easy. The only remotely hard heroic in all of TBC was heroic Shattered Halls and even that was cake if you had a paladin tank. If you were lucky enough to have a paladin tank the entire expansion was AOE pulls. The problem wasn't that trash was hard it was that any tank besides a paladin couldn't hold AOE aggro.
    Yeah, Mech was so easy. That's why almost everyone always skipped Sepethrea. Heck I can still hear my healer crying at the gauntlet before the last boss, only to be disappointed (both of us) that we had to go back in another day because my sword still didn't drop. There were a lot of complex pathing mobs and those STILL get people on NORMAL if you're going through a RDF PUG. Because dungeons aren't made like that anymore, people feel tricked and cheated if they pull one of those groups at the wrong time because it chains 3-4 other groups. Same thing in SV, that first room was absolutely killer unless you know the paths through it (which of course we do; new players don't).

    You think Shattered Halls was the hardest, I agree that it was hard too; but it's tough to take you seriously when you say that Mag Terrace was easy? Really? Well I guess it's true everyone had a different experience in TBC.
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  14. #214
    The 5% debuff every gold medal sounds amazing... itll make it very challenging. Imagine doing cata heroics at 333 itemlevel with a 50% debuff, theyd be insane.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by snuzzle View Post

    You think Shattered Halls was the hardest, I agree that it was hard too; but it's tough to take you seriously when you say that Mag Terrace was easy? Really? Well I guess it's true everyone had a different experience in TBC.
    If you did the timed Shattered Halls run which was chain pulling and what not to save the prisoners it was far from easy..

    MagTerrace was right up there with Heroic Arcatraz when it first came out.. the PVP boss was a bitch.

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