Holy - How much spirit should I aim for?

[Deleted]

TSIA.

I currently have 4.2k spirit with both trinkets stacked. How much spirit should I be looking at before I stat reforging to haste or shall I keep going?

In normal modes, 2man healing I lose most of my mana on almost all DS fights but in LFR I'm 50%+ most of the time.

[lionhearteve]

i think u r doing something wrong .

i roll with 3600 spirit unbuffed (i have no spirit trinkets) and i never oom in ds while 2 man healing.

do u judge on 1 min cd?
do u use divine plea/arcane torrent on cd?
do u use WoG/LoD to save mana?

i do thes things and i can easily and safly spam HR x3>>LoD without having any mana trouble .

and in 6/8 i finish with 30-40% of mana only spine and madness i end up 5-10% left.

1 more thing , if u dont have the 4p set bonous. get it now , since it is really good , 25% less mana cost for heavy aoe dmg and 5% increase in HR is just OP for saving mana.

[Deleted]

and in 6/8 i finish with 30-40% of mana only spine and madness i end up 5-10% left.

6/8 normal or 6/8 heroic? If you're 6/8 normal the no offense but you're not doing a lot of healing at all, you can't simply because there's not enough damage to heal. As you yourself said when you get to spine/madness your mana drops lower. If you did 6/8 heroic then you'd be selling your grandma for every bit of spirit you can get.

At least on some fights, obviously it varies. But on Zon'ozz, Gunship, Spine etc. I don't think there's such a thing as "enough" spirit. More is always helpful.

[Tutorial]

I'm rolling with 3.2k unbuffed spirit and around 4.3k when fully buffed (Have 2 spirit trinkets since nothing else of worth has dropped yet) and never oom unless we're talking about Yor'sahj HC, where it can get quite annoying with the blue debuff.

I know Zaroua of Premonition has build a full spirit set and is walking around with 4.2k spirit unbuffed. It's ridiculously high and fully buffed he'll probably reach over 5k. However he does have haste cap (slightly above even) and while others may think his build is weird, he does have 6/8 HC progress and I will actually follow his build.

Fun fact, he also tried a full mastery build and it seemed amazing for tank healing but other than that it was really not worth giving up haste.

[Deleted]

i think u r doing something wrong .

i roll with 3600 spirit unbuffed (i have no spirit trinkets) and i never oom in ds while 2 man healing.

do u judge on 1 min cd?
do u use divine plea/arcane torrent on cd?
do u use WoG/LoD to save mana?

i do thes things and i can easily and safly spam HR x3>>LoD without having any mana trouble .

and in 6/8 i finish with 30-40% of mana only spine and madness i end up 5-10% left.

1 more thing , if u dont have the 4p set bonous. get it now , since it is really good , 25% less mana cost for heavy aoe dmg and 5% increase in HR is just OP for saving mana.

If I'm 3man healing, I have no problems at all with mana but in 2man scenarios, mana gets dicey for spine and madness.
On most fights, I'm generally pulling 15k hps efficiently and on madness I usually end on 25k hps.

No offense though but from what I'm aware of, spam HR x3 >> LoD is the least mana efficient way for raid healing so I'm just going to ignore your advice.

6/8 normal or 6/8 heroic? If you're 6/8 normal the no offense but you're not doing a lot of healing at all, you can't simply because there's not enough damage to heal. As you yourself said when you get to spine/madness your mana drops lower. If you did 6/8 heroic then you'd be selling your grandma for every bit of spirit you can get.

At least on some fights, obviously it varies. But on Zon'ozz, Gunship, Spine etc. I don't think there's such a thing as "enough" spirit. More is always helpful.

Makes sense...I'm not usually maxed on mana so thanks for the clarification. Was just curious if haste would be superior past a certain threshold.

[Howard Moon]

3.3k Spirit unbuffed here. I'm only 1/8HC though :P

[Deleted]

6/8 normal or 6/8 heroic? If you're 6/8 normal the no offense but you're not doing a lot of healing at all, you can't simply because there's not enough damage to heal. As you yourself said when you get to spine/madness your mana drops lower. If you did 6/8 heroic then you'd be selling your grandma for every bit of spirit you can get.

At least on some fights, obviously it varies. But on Zon'ozz, Gunship, Spine etc. I don't think there's such a thing as "enough" spirit. More is always helpful.

Im quite new with healing during proggress and im rolling with around 4.3k spirit incombat with tsunami and LFR spine trinket, and on fights such as zonozz and lightning phase hagara i absolutely love my spirit and while i might finish the fight high on mana i still need it during the fight.

[Deleted]

No offense though but from what I'm aware of, spam HR x3 >> LoD is the least mana efficient way for raid healing so I'm just going to ignore your advice.

HR x infinity is less mana efficient ; )
There's a time and a place for all of em though, I'm sure you've come across moments on madness when HRx3->LoD is needed and you don't have time for a holy shock, at least I have when 2 healing it even though we outgear the fight.

Makes sense...I'm not usually maxed on mana so thanks for the clarification. Was just curious if haste would be superior past a certain threshold.

Well it is, it's just that this threshold varies wildly per fight and raid. How mana intense is the fight? How geared are you? How many healers are there? Etc. So yeah, if you ever feel you have too much mana for a progression fight then feel free to reforge into more haste. I just take the philosophy of better safe than sorry, you never know when shit will go bad and you'll need that extra mana so I like having as much spirit as possible.

But that's a personal preference, if you feel that you have enough for your purposes I can't argue with you on it. The amount of "ideal" spirit varies per person, I was just saying that my comfort level is very high for the fights I'm doing atm. I believe you can't really go wrong with more spirit, after all if you find yourself high on mana all you gotta do is press HR more and it'll be turned into huge healing.

[Deleted]

HR x infinity is less mana efficient ; )
There's a time and a place for all of em though, I'm sure you've come across moments on madness when HRx3->LoD is needed and you don't have time for a holy shock, at least I have when 2 healing it even though we outgear the fight.



Well it is, it's just that this threshold varies wildly per fight and raid. How mana intense is the fight? How geared are you? How many healers are there? Etc. So yeah, if you ever feel you have too much mana for a progression fight then feel free to reforge into more haste. I just take the philosophy of better safe than sorry, you never know when shit will go bad and you'll need that extra mana so I like having as much spirit as possible.

But that's a personal preference, if you feel that you have enough for your purposes I can't argue with you on it. The amount of "ideal" spirit varies per person, I was just saying that my comfort level is very high for the fights I'm doing atm. I believe you can't really go wrong with more spirit, after all if you find yourself high on mana all you gotta do is press HR more and it'll be turned into huge healing.

lol I guess there is a place for it.

I only started playing holy a couple of weeks ago after quitting ele shaman so I'm not too in-depth with holy min-maxing.
I think I'll probably try and max the spirit for now.

Thanks for the responses.

[Kurzior]

Little things add up. If you're running 4.2k spirit and still ooming, you're either not healing efficiently, not using regen mechanics or your raid is taking far more damage than they should.

Efficient healing comes with practice, but try to keep it in mind while you play.

Regen mechanics - use divine plea early and often. Especially on later fights, get everything you can out of it. You'll need it. In addition to that, make sure you keep Judgement up at all times. I usually shoot for every 45-50 seconds so I don't get screwed by needing to heal rather than refresh when it falls off. Melee for mana whenever possible. It may be small gains, but I can usually generate about 40k mana that way on a 5 minute fight. That's definetly enough to be worth it.

Raid damage - part of this is on your group to avoid damage and use personal cd's, but as a paladin, you have a lot of weapons to help them. Aura Mastery is HUGE and has at least 1 good spot for use on every single DS fight. Divine Protection, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Protection are all very strong when used well and result in a lot of mana saved by reducing damage. Also, don't be afraid to use your throughput cd's. There are a lot of people with the attitude of 'save it until its absolutely necessary', but that usually turns into not using them at all. As long as you're good about staggering them rather than popping all of them at once, you won't be left dry during a high damage phase, and you'll save some mana over the course of the fight.

As far as an actual number for spirit, I'd recommend around 3.5k for Normal DS. I run 3.6k and feel fine 2 healing all the fights with our resto druid, Madness and Spine being the only 2 that really strain my mana at this point.

[Deleted]

Little things add up. If you're running 4.2k spirit and still ooming, you're either not healing efficiently, not using regen mechanics or your raid is taking far more damage than they should.

Efficient healing comes with practice, but try to keep it in mind while you play.

Regen mechanics - use divine plea early and often. Especially on later fights, get everything you can out of it. You'll need it. In addition to that, make sure you keep Judgement up at all times. I usually shoot for every 45-50 seconds so I don't get screwed by needing to heal rather than refresh when it falls off. Melee for mana whenever possible. It may be small gains, but I can usually generate about 40k mana that way on a 5 minute fight. That's definetly enough to be worth it.

Raid damage - part of this is on your group to avoid damage and use personal cd's, but as a paladin, you have a lot of weapons to help them. Aura Mastery is HUGE and has at least 1 good spot for use on every single DS fight. Divine Protection, Hand of Sacrifice, Hand of Protection are all very strong when used well and result in a lot of mana saved by reducing damage. Also, don't be afraid to use your throughput cd's. There are a lot of people with the attitude of 'save it until its absolutely necessary', but that usually turns into not using them at all. As long as you're good about staggering them rather than popping all of them at once, you won't be left dry during a high damage phase, and you'll save some mana over the course of the fight.

As far as an actual number for spirit, I'd recommend around 3.5k for Normal DS. I run 3.6k and feel fine 2 healing all the fights with our resto druid, Madness and Spine being the only 2 that really strain my mana at this point.

The bolded statement is extremely important, i my self are still learning this as i came from a dps and there its ussualy better to wait until that one moment where you can unleash hell but as a healer is very different and thruput cooldowns can often be used as mana saving cooldowns instead.

[lionhearteve]

If I'm 3man healing, I have no problems at all with mana but in 2man scenarios, mana gets dicey for spine and madness.
On most fights, I'm generally pulling 15k hps efficiently and on madness I usually end on 25k hps.

No offense though but from what I'm aware of, spam HR x3 >> LoD is the least mana efficient way for raid healing so I'm just going to ignore your advice.

1- if u have 4.2 spirit and 2 man healing ds normal , and u have mana trouble ...... then you need help learning the class mana regen mechanics.

2-if you cant pull HRx3>>LoD in heavy raid dmg periods without having mana problems then YOU shouldnt 2 man heal , go with 3.
(i can some times in madness normal go HR spam mode and i still get my mana back up.)

3-ignore / take any advice u want. u asked for advice , while imo u dont need advice . u need help.

4- dont take it the wrong way, i just wana help you by giving you my point of view depending on my experience. coz i myself had ALOT of trouble controlling my mana , ALOT when we 1st started to go ds coz i used to be a tank and rolled holy for 4.3.

but with the help of the guys here in MMO -who i LOVE :-P- and a little experience with trial and error . i learned how to control the fight. not let it control me.

[Skulldancer]

3.3k Spirit unbuffed here. I'm only 1/8HC though :P

Since when do people put progression with doing it right stat wise? I think the Premonition Pallies just prove that you can do it how ever as long as you know what you're doing and apparently they do. Unless the have 2 sets of gear... one to play with people on Armory and one that is gemmed and reforged "properly"

[Theholypally]

3392 spirit w/o HoU stacked up. We two heal everything except spine/madness, i usually end with 10% mana or less for 6/8 and around 5-10% on spine and madness.

Personally i think ending with any more then that, even for normal modes, means you arent healing enough or you are three healing. I never beleived there was a set number of spirit to go for, ive always been reforging crit and mastery into spirit on items that dont have spirit on them. You can never go wrong with more spirit, especially once you get your hands on Heart of Unliving. Some might argue that you can reforge out of spirit once you get heart of unliving, thats their choice...although i wouldnt recommend doing that to anyone i talk to.

[Deleted]

1- if u have 4.2 spirit and 2 man healing ds normal , and u have mana trouble ...... then you need help learning the class mana regen mechanics.

2-if you cant pull HRx3>>LoD in heavy raid dmg periods without having mana problems then YOU shouldnt 2 man heal , go with 3.
(i can some times in madness normal go HR spam mode and i still get my mana back up.)

3-ignore / take any advice u want. u asked for advice , while imo u dont need advice . u need help.

4- dont take it the wrong way, i just wana help you by giving you my point of view depending on my experience. coz i myself had ALOT of trouble controlling my mana , ALOT when we 1st started to go ds coz i used to be a tank and rolled holy for 4.3.

but with the help of the guys here in MMO -who i LOVE :-P- and a little experience with trial and error . i learned how to control the fight. not let it control me.

I'm not having trouble with mana in general, it's simply an issue of madness normal with 2 healers. I can do HR >> LoD in heavy AoE and I can pretty much keep my mana going on all boss fights with 2 healers until the end of madness.

2 healing every other fight is easy except for madness final phase.

I was simply curious, should I go for haste after a certain threshold of spirit.

[lionhearteve]

I was simply curious, should I go for haste after a certain threshold of spirit.

srry i might have understood u wrong. anyway for this simple question , imo the simple answer is

no. spirit>haste all the time . but thats my point of view.

[Skulldancer]

2 healing every other fight is easy except for madness final phase.

You have to have a beast heal with you if u can 2 heal the blisterings when they come out

[Dorfie]

You have to have a beast heal with you if u can 2 heal the blisterings when they come out

Or Holy Radiance keybound. Seriously.

[Skulldancer]

Or Holy Radiance keybound. Seriously.

well when we 3 heal it all 3 heals are usually doing 20k. I just never herd of it being 2 healed thats all

[Deleted]

well when we 3 heal it all 3 heals are usually doing 20k. I just never herd of it being 2 healed thats all

We 2 healed madness since the first week it was released, doing 30k each. It's just a matter of maximizing the use of cooldowns, including all the ones that many guilds forget to use such as spriest hymns and feral tranquility (you can use 2 of each on madness). I'd say it's quite doable with any 2 healers that have 390 or higher iLevel.