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  1. #1
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Design philosophy inconsistancies with the Elementalist

    One thing that has been bugging me is some choices with the Elementalist. I have been thinking about it and what really seems to stick out to me is how an option in the biography when you create your character seems to be at odds with the playstyle I have seen many elementalists have used in demos, especially in pvp.

    When you first make your Elementalist, it asks you what element you are most in tune with. It even shows up as a crystal that floats in front of your forehead. However, I don't see the meaning in this. From what I have noticed in elementalist playstyle during a game session, elementalists switch attunements quite frequently. I have seen some switch between all 4 elements in one engagement and come out on top because of it. This rubs me the wrong way because the question when you make your character seems to suggest you would want to specialize in some way in your chosen element, maybe making you more powerful in that one specific attunement.

    Yes, you can get traits to customize your playstyle, but if you limit yourself to one attunement you will be crippling your versatility unlike an elementalist that freely switches between attunements. That clash is really the main reason I won't be rolling an elementalist. I like the idea, but they should make a different question at the beginning, or make it so that in combat you can switch weapons (which an elementalist can't do currently) instead of switching attunements, or give that as an option to do one instead of the other. I think it would be cool to be a specialist in an element and be able to switch weapons to make use of your element in ways that a attunement switching elementalist couldn't.

    As it stands right now, choosing an element when making a character seems to set up false expectations. I may be looking too much into it, but it feels disingenuous. If they keep things like they are, maybe change the question asking what weapon you like most and have that weapon always have some elemental flare to it while it's equipped? Since right now if you choose a weapon type, you are most likely going to stick with it since you can't switch weapons in combat. "I use my staff to channel my elements far and wide to spread their power and influence" "I choose a scepter for my weapon. It brings power with versatility, allowing me to be more tactical with placing power" "I choose daggers, they are perfect for getting in close precise strikes with my element and bringing greater mobility" or some such.

    Am I just ranting and raving as usual, or has anyone else noticed this? I am sure some people will love switching elements, but I wonder if I more dedicated elementalist playstyle should be available as well. Thoughts/opinions?

  2. #2
    High Overlord Primal Zed's Avatar
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    Roleplay shouldn't get in the way of a player's ability to play the game. This is just an example of that.

    Similarly, norn players pick which animal spirit they like best when they create a character, but each norn player still has access to the same animal-specific skills, to include the 'ultimate' transformation skills.

    If you want to let your roleplay influence your in-combat gameplay, that's your choice. Forcing it onto people will only annoy other players who don't care as much about roleplay.
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  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    That elemental attunement questions is the equivalent to the 'What do you wear in battle' question for the warrior or the 'In my line of work, I value..." question for thieves. It's a role playing choice, and/or a cosmetic starting choice. It has no bearing on gameplay, for any class.

    And of course you can dedicate to one element if you choose, no one is forcing you to swap constantly.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  4. #4
    I think the questions asked during character creation only affect you personal story and nothing else, they lay the foundation for your characters personality.

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Guess it is just me then. At least I know elementalist isn't for me now. =p

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Vewen's Avatar
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    It's mainly just a flavor question, that maybe has some effect on the way you look but that's it(didn't really see anything on the convention vids though). It doesn't affect gameplay. I know I'll pick water because I like it the most. I hope it has some consequences for your personal story line though, so that your story line maybe has you explore the element you picked during character creation.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Primal Zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    Guess it is just me then. At least I know elementalist isn't for me now. =p
    I'm a little confused by this. You don't want to play elementalists because they retain versatility rather than becoming shackled to a single mode based on a decision made at character creation? I'm really not seeing how that's a bad thing, nor can I imagine what profession meets this desire.

    If you want to focus on a single attunement as an elementalist, you can.
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  8. #8
    The game isn't even out yet and we already have thinly veiled "X class is OP!" posts? Just wait till the game is out before you start demanding nerfs, ok?

    By the way, the choice of elements in the beginning is just to determine what attunement you start with, since you don't get all 4 from the beginning. Hopefully the choice you make also has an effect on the personal story too.
    [quote author=ðεrfεℓ † καðαrηε link=topic=158876.msg2123362#msg2123362 date=1265649724]
    And who are you?
    Â* A two-feet-tall midget dual wielding 5ft long two-handed swords?
    Â* Or a blue-skinned half-squid-half-goat uncorrupted demon of light from outer space who is a wild shaman?
    Â* Or are you a killed, then raised, then liberated, then killed, then raised, then liberated again human whose eyes used to glow not, then glow yellow, and now glow blue (I'm not even talking of your spine portruding through your skin, your armor and your cloak)(and the ability to speak without lower jaw)?
    Â* Or are you an elf who can turn into a cat, bear, seal, cheetah, eagle and tree, but still has to use ground mounts which you magically conjure from thin air? [/quote]

  9. #9
    If I recall it correctly, you'll start with the element you choose and get the other once as you level and it'll be like leveling a weapon , but I might be wrong. I've heard it somewhere but can't put my finger on where... :S

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-16 at 07:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mistersister View Post
    The game isn't even out yet and we already have thinly veiled "X class is OP!" posts? Just wait till the game is out before you start demanding nerfs, ok?

    By the way, the choice of elements in the beginning is just to determine what attunement you start with, since you don't get all 4 from the beginning. Hopefully the choice you make also has an effect on the personal story too.
    Damn, beat me to it... :P

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Vewen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Zed View Post
    I'm a little confused by this. You don't want to play elementalists because they retain versatility rather than becoming shackled to a single mode based on a decision made at character creation? I'm really not seeing how that's a bad thing, nor can I imagine what profession meets this desire.

    If you want to focus on a single attunement as an elementalist, you can.
    Anet said that you would cripple yourself then. Each attunement has its own use. Fire for AOE damage, earth for protection, water for healing/slowing people and lightning for decent single target dps. I think if you would only go fire, you'd be crippling yourself. Hopping to earth for some protection might b the difference between dead or alive.
    During the gamescom vids, the Anet player was constantly switching between attunements for their buffs/spell effects.

    I don't like elementalist at this moment because I'd like my caster a bit more durable, like the necromancer. But it could be that they are durable, because of their spells and their effect. It's why I didn't update my sig to necromancer, I intend to test all 3 casters during open beta if I can.
    Last edited by Vewen; 2012-01-16 at 07:12 PM.

  11. #11
    High Overlord Primal Zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vewen View Post
    Anet said that you would cripple yourself then. Each attunement has its own use. Fire for AOE damage, earth for protection, water for healing/slowing people and lightning for decent single target dps. I think if you would only go fire, you'd be crippling yourself. Hopping to earth for some protection might b the difference between dead or alive.
    If the roleplayer wants to handicap himself for his roleplay, that's his choice. It's not unheard of. I didn't mean to imply that it's a viable option when I said he can do that if he wants.
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  12. #12
    I think your over thinking this a bit OP it just asking what is your favorite element, I think ppl doubt picking one will set the player on this false assumption anymore than playing GW1's ele or WOW's mage would. Their are many factors the teach ele's how to play such as slowly drip feeding skills along with different buffs I'm sure ppl will understand they need to switch to to actually play the game well.
    Last edited by SPeedy26; 2012-01-16 at 07:42 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Zed View Post
    I'm a little confused by this. You don't want to play elementalists because they retain versatility rather than becoming shackled to a single mode based on a decision made at character creation? I'm really not seeing how that's a bad thing, nor can I imagine what profession meets this desire.

    If you want to focus on a single attunement as an elementalist, you can.
    I think that he wanted that answer to the question to influence how powerful the magic is. Such as if you pick that you are attuned with water at the begining then he would want you to be more powerful with water magic and have the other attunements being a base power. Hes not saying that having versatility is a bad thing.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    It just feels weird getting asked what is your element and then the game says that you are equally good in all four elements. I am sure the story is influenced some way by the choice, but something like that feels like a choice of flavor and playstyle when you ask an elementalist what is their symbol. I am glad that elementalists can be very versitile, good for them. However, I was hoping to be viable and competitive while still choosing to specialize, but that doesn't seem to be an option. You want to go just earth? You get no speed boosts or extra healing. All fire? You won't be durable. If you choose to specialize with the current setup you are gimping yourself.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-16 at 08:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mistersister View Post
    The game isn't even out yet and we already have thinly veiled "X class is OP!" posts? Just wait till the game is out before you start demanding nerfs, ok?
    Where did I mention anywhere about being OP? I am talking about viable alternative playstyles.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius View Post
    That elemental attunement questions is the equivalent to the 'What do you wear in battle' question for the warrior or the 'In my line of work, I value..." question for thieves. It's a role playing choice, and/or a cosmetic starting choice. It has no bearing on gameplay, for any class.

    And of course you can dedicate to one element if you choose, no one is forcing you to swap constantly.
    Actually rangers gameplay is changed on their question because each pet performs differently...

    @OP: Well you can trait yourself to be "more attuned" to a certain element if this is really that big of a deal to you, but the way i see it is "what element do you most relate to" and you wear a gemstone accordingly.
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    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    it makes absolutely no sense to not swap attunements, since elementalists can't swap weapons

    I see where you are coming from though, see it as an cosmetic item you inherited from your master etc. You won't have to wear it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    One thing that has been bugging me is some choices with the Elementalist. I have been thinking about it and what really seems to stick out to me is how an option in the biography when you create your character seems to be at odds with the playstyle I have seen many elementalists have used in demos, especially in pvp.

    When you first make your Elementalist, it asks you what element you are most in tune with. It even shows up as a crystal that floats in front of your forehead. However, I don't see the meaning in this. From what I have noticed in elementalist playstyle during a game session, elementalists switch attunements quite frequently. I have seen some switch between all 4 elements in one engagement and come out on top because of it. This rubs me the wrong way because the question when you make your character seems to suggest you would want to specialize in some way in your chosen element, maybe making you more powerful in that one specific attunement.
    The bolded parts are what made me think you were QQing about Elementalists being OP because of their versatility. I'm so used to seeing people in WoW forums couching their "Nerf" threads in creative ways that this sorta raised some red flags. Sorry if it was just a coincidence that you brought PvP into it.
    [quote author=ðεrfεℓ † καðαrηε link=topic=158876.msg2123362#msg2123362 date=1265649724]
    And who are you?
    Â* A two-feet-tall midget dual wielding 5ft long two-handed swords?
    Â* Or a blue-skinned half-squid-half-goat uncorrupted demon of light from outer space who is a wild shaman?
    Â* Or are you a killed, then raised, then liberated, then killed, then raised, then liberated again human whose eyes used to glow not, then glow yellow, and now glow blue (I'm not even talking of your spine portruding through your skin, your armor and your cloak)(and the ability to speak without lower jaw)?
    Â* Or are you an elf who can turn into a cat, bear, seal, cheetah, eagle and tree, but still has to use ground mounts which you magically conjure from thin air? [/quote]

  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    And as I stated, it's great for the people that want to be switching attunements and be master of all elements, but I am old school. I think an elementalist in the fantasy stereotype, should choose one element. I am not personally liking attunement swapping. It doesn't mesh with my idea of what an elementalist will be. Once again, that is fine. I will let others play it. I will just play another class.

    I usually do more ranged oriented classes. Like in wow, my main was a hunter, played an ele shaman and an arcane mage. Played a lock in wotlk a little, but I don't like demons. Now, you may think I would like to try a ranger, but the ranger really isn't that similar to a hunter and I never liked trapping, which rangers will definately want to do. I will probably just stick with Guardian or go rifle/longbow Warrior. I dunno, will have to get my hands on the game to see.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-16 at 08:49 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mistersister View Post
    The bolded parts are what made me think you were QQing about Elementalists being OP because of their versatility. I'm so used to seeing people in WoW forums couching their "Nerf" threads in creative ways that this sorta raised some red flags. Sorry if it was just a coincidence that you brought PvP into it.
    I say pvp because the person playing one seemed to really know what they were doing instead of the schlub from the convention floor with a camera that has never played GW2 before and wants to video himself playing it for his youtube channel. Some of the pve videos show very low skill understanding and usage. Some of the pvp vids however had ANet employees behind the wheel that have been playing for a long time, so they know the ins and out like we just can't.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    And as I stated, it's great for the people that want to be switching attunements and be master of all elements, but I am old school. I think an elementalist in the fantasy stereotype, should choose one element. I am not personally liking attunement swapping. It doesn't mesh with my idea of what an elementalist will be. Once again, that is fine. I will let others play it. I will just play another class.
    Then they'd just be a Pyromancer, Hydromancer, Aeromancer or Geomancer. Not an Elementalist.
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  20. #20
    High Overlord Primal Zed's Avatar
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    The term 'elementalist' to me is actually defiined by the magic user's ability to use multiple magical elements, not just one. So a magic user who uses only fire wouldn't be an elementalist, he would be a fire mage, or pyromancer if you want a fancier title.

    edit: Damn, Blznsmri (how the hell do you pronounce that?) beat me to it.
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