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  1. #181
    Bloodsail Admiral Melanieshaman's Avatar
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    I see this thread is dying, which is fine. But, i wanted to publicly thanks the MMO-C community for (mostly) staying on topic, and being polite. Trans issues are not something that is usually allowed to be discussed here (after the last thread sometime last year that was upwards of 30 pages), but I just want to repeat, thank you for keeping the convo focused, and not attacked people or saying "that's icky".

    Love this community, and threads like this keep me coming back.

  2. #182
    Pandaren Monk nalle's Avatar
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    Let me get this straight.

    After reading though this thread I must say that people just spout their usual ignorance.


    1. This has been one of the criteria of a law that has been here since 1972.
    2. The medical commission wants it gone, most of the government and the big (big) majority of the country as well.
    3. A small part of the Swedish population (no bigger part then any other country I would imagine) and the Christian party wants it to stay for the usual religious beliefs (nothing against religion, just that this subject requires the mention of it as it plays a big part)...


    So in conclusion...SWEDEN IS BAD OMG!!!

    Sorry but that's the general feeling I got in here.

    The whole government, the whole country even, is bad because a small group of people and one religious party wants it to stay.

    Absolutely hate generalization of this magnitude. That's like me saying all of [insert random country here] is bad because a minority of the population and part of their government want some ridiculous law to be enforced.

    I don't like this law, everyone I've talked to today doesn't like this law and think it's ridiculous. I'm not a patriotic person at all (would make this argument even if it wasn't my own country), but most people in this thread needs to think before they talk/type and/or word their posts in a different manner.
    Last edited by nalle; 2012-01-19 at 10:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawnxxx View Post
    Thank god you posted that pic done by Da Vinci The vitruvian man because to be honest I had NOOOO Idea what a Human body looked liked therefor had NO idea what you were refering too. With that said the sylvari are made of lettuce. If I twist up some cabage leaves too look like a human, it doesnt make it monohuman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    That picture has four arms and four legs. It's not a human, so it's clearly a spider.

  3. #183
    Bloodsail Admiral Melanieshaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nalle View Post
    Let me get this straight.

    After reading though this thread I must say that people just spout their usual ignorance.


    1. This has been one of the criteria of a law that has been here since 1972.
    2. The medical commission wants it gone, most of the government and the big (big) majority of the country as well.
    3. A small part of the Swedish population (no bigger part then any other country I would imagine) and the Christian party wants it to stay for the usual religious beliefs (nothing against religion, just that this subject requires the mention of it as it plays a big part)...


    So in conclusion...SWEDEN IS BAD OMG!!!

    Sorry but that's the general feeling I got in here.

    The whole government, the whole country even, is bad because a small group of people and one religious party wants it to stay.

    Absolutely hate generalization of this magnitude. That's like me saying all of [insert random country here] is bad because a minority of the population and part of their government want some ridiculous law to be enforced.

    I don't like this law, everyone I've talked to today doesn't like this law and think it's ridiculous. I'm not a patriotic person at all (would make this argument even if it wasn't my own country), but most people in this thread needs to think before they talk/type and/or word their posts in a different manner.
    No, you're right. Sweeping generalizations are wrong. Trust me, as a trans person, some people think we are all the same. I don't claim to know anything about what's going on in your homeland, i just think there are certain things are wrong. Saying Trans people MUST be sterilized is wrong. If that's not what it's saying then i apologize.

  4. #184
    Pandaren Monk nalle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanieshaman View Post
    No, you're right. Sweeping generalizations are wrong. Trust me, as a trans person, some people think we are all the same. I don't claim to know anything about what's going on in your homeland, i just think there are certain things are wrong. Saying Trans people MUST be sterilized is wrong. If that's not what it's saying then i apologize.
    I think the law is just ridiculous, same with basically everyone I know.

    Everyone should be able to live the life they want/need/are comfortable and happy with.

    My post was more to the people bashing Sweden as a country based on this.

    So I agree to the topic, it's a crappy law to say the least, but people should not bash and generalize a whole nation because of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawnxxx View Post
    Thank god you posted that pic done by Da Vinci The vitruvian man because to be honest I had NOOOO Idea what a Human body looked liked therefor had NO idea what you were refering too. With that said the sylvari are made of lettuce. If I twist up some cabage leaves too look like a human, it doesnt make it monohuman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    That picture has four arms and four legs. It's not a human, so it's clearly a spider.

  5. #185
    Bloodsail Admiral Melanieshaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nalle View Post
    I think the law is just ridiculous, same with basically everyone I know.

    Everyone should be able to live the life they want/need/are comfortable and happy with.

    My post was more to the people bashing Sweden as a country based on this.

    So I agree to the topic, it's a crappy law to say the least, but people should not bash and generalize a whole nation because of it.

    A philosophy everyone should live by

  6. #186
    Warchief Kivimetsan's Avatar
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    Poor Sweden...

    They tax all your money and force sterilize you.

    What happened to freedom in this world? This is ridiculous!

  7. #187
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kivimetsan View Post
    Poor Sweden...

    They tax all your money and force sterilize you.

    What happened to freedom in this world? This is ridiculous!
    so... where in this lies the forcing of people...?

  8. #188
    Bloodsail Admiral Talokami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melanieshaman View Post
    I see this thread is dying, which is fine. But, i wanted to publicly thanks the MMO-C community for (mostly) staying on topic, and being polite. Trans issues are not something that is usually allowed to be discussed here (after the last thread sometime last year that was upwards of 30 pages), but I just want to repeat, thank you for keeping the convo focused, and not attacked people or saying "that's icky".

    Love this community, and threads like this keep me coming back.
    Quoted for much truth! Despite the flaming and trolling, times like these make me love this community.
    That fabric softener teddy bear...oooh I'm 'a hunt that little bitch down.

  9. #189
    Grunt ZAJLAWL's Avatar
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    This law doesen't have any support at all whatsoever.
    The government already want it gone, the problem is that KD (Christian Democrats) as the only party is refusing to cooperate and so far has been stalling the question when it has been brought up.

    So don't presume the Swedish government is in favor of it cause they are not, it is only a single party that is causing this.

    This question was brought up again two days ago in the years first debate between party leaders for 2012 where some parties demanded answers from KD's party leader Göran Hägglund on the matter.

    And this is about what was said on the matter for anyone interested, just google translated FYI so it might be abit dodgy but you'll get the general gist of it.



    "This was said in yesterday's party leaders debate on forced sterilization:

    ANF. 66 Gustav Fridolin (MP) replica:
    (...)
    My second question relates to forced sterilization. I thought it was a question I would need to address in a debate between party leaders in Sweden, 2012th But, Jan Björklund, how should one interpret the smoke signals and twittering from the government? Are you prepared to continue the forced sterilization transgender or is it just smokescreen for the Christian Democrats riksting?

    ANF. 67 Education Jan Björklund (Liberal) replica:
    Madam President, Regarding the second question is my opinion that sterilization does not belong in a modern society. It should be abolished.
    There is an evaluation process in the government. Gustav Fridolin, and everyone knows that the government parties have different views on this issue, but we are not finished with the matter.
    My view is crystal clear: There should be abolished.
    When the government is ready with a common position, we will announce it. I promise.
    (...)

    ANF. 68 Gustav Fridolin (MP) replica:
    Madam President, Forced sterilization issue should be given further, says Jan Björklund. There were also words I can not imagine having to hear a debate between party leaders 2012th I do not understand what needs to be further investigated. There is a bill worked out by among others the National Board and attested by the heaviest legal proceedings. We will make it the Riksdag in the spring. We hope it goes through and the Liberal Party members, the so-called liberals, support it.
    (...)

    ANF. 130 Jonas Sjöstedt (V) replica:
    Madam President, I have a few questions to Mr Hägglund sterilization of transgender people. I am sure that both you and me are the children the most important thing in our lives. To give himself the right to decide who may or may not have children is a big responsibility.
    We can not defend that one group singled out and say that they do not have the right to have children, which is a condition of transgender people if they are to become who they want to be. In practice it is you who owns the issue, Göran Hägglund. You could change you and say that you have realized that it's wrong.
    Who are the arguments for not allowing transgender people to have children? Are there any berries arguments for it?

    ANF. 131 Social Affairs Göran Hägglund (KD) replica:
    Madam President, Let me go back a bit in history. Current law applies since 1972. It's an old law which many governments since then have managed without change.
    I inherited a study which suggested a number of changes. The study was gunned down by almost every group that might have comments. It was not good enough to make a new law on.
    Welfare has made ​​a new work that we received in early summer last year. It has been circulated for comment.
    There are a variety of proposals, which among other things, how we could get better treatment in the care for those who need treatment. There are proposals to concentrate resources on fewer locations so that you become a better position to carry out the work to be done so as not to spread resources in such a way that you are not good enough. There are proposals to remove some elements of the legislation, including that today must be unmarried, to change sex and that one must be a Swedish citizen.
    These things I think is quite straightforward.
    Then there is a proposal that is about to remove the 18-year limit. Today is 18 years old to yourself to take a position for a sex change.
    Then there is the difficult question of sterilization. Sweden, where a lot of criticism from human rights perspective, but there are things that need to be elucidated. We have today is not a legislative proposal that is sufficiently durable to be added as proposed to the Parliament. Not even those who are very eager to do so that he takes responsibility.
    I'll also say that the government as a whole has not taken a position on this issue. The question is prepared. It is the Ministry's area, and we are looking at the issue.

    ANF. 132 Jonas Sjöstedt (V) replica:
    Madam President, I have full respect for things to be investigated thoroughly, but I believe that this issue has been thoroughly investigated. It is lagmässigt not very complicated. Either forcing it through one thing or do you not. There are plenty of international examples that we have recently from countries that lifts the sterilization requirement.
    What I do not want to happen is that we will look back on this sterilization, as we see in other sterilizations in Sweden's history, with shame, how could we do this? I would therefore like to appeal to you and ask you: change you!

    ANF. 133 Social Affairs Göran Hägglund (KD) replica:
    Madam President, As responsible legislators, we need to do things in an accurate manner. One should look at all aspects. There is a political aspect, there is a legal aspect and there is a social aspect to this that we should look at before we have finished the question. The government has not yet decided, but we pay the issue much attention.
    "


    Source: http://sv-se.facebook.com/rfsl.forbu...50478890472301
    "Is somebody out there? Fishy, fishy, fishy? Ha ha! Coming to eat me, too? Ha ha ha ha! You can't get me, little fishy, not in here! I'm safe behind my walls!"

  10. #190
    Stood in the Fire
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    "Forced sterilization" is a bit of an exaggeration now isn't it?

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