Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
LastLast
  1. #161
    Bloodsail Admiral Melanieshaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,103
    Quote Originally Posted by Talokami View Post
    I can confirm HRT will make you sterile. I'm speaking for the FTM side of the coin, mind you, but after testosterone injection begins FTM's have a seven month where conception is possible. There have a been a few cases where transmen have become pregnant after HRT and before having SRS, but that would definitely be an extreme and not the norm. HRT is in a way a chemical sterilization as the extreme levels of opposite sex hormones and hormone blockers render any reproductive material inert.
    thank you, i have been sick for days, and i am having difficulty getting my thoughts together.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I think the argument is they'd like to be considered the sex they feel they are before going through the surgery, assuming they can ever actually afford it.
    Then people could change their mind all the time. It would be stupid.

  3. #163
    Legendary! darenyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cho'gall (US)
    Posts
    6,049
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    and thats the point - its a very definitive way of defining when someone is of the opposite gender... Because how else should you determine it? By how people look - by how they personally feel although they look like a man who then waltz into a women's locker room etc etc etc...
    except its not. if an XX person is sterile because of birth defects or accident.. they dont suddenly become male. if an xy person is immune to testosterone and develops as a sterile female, that doesnt make them xx. so thats not a good way at all. the only "true" measurement is a dna test. the rest is simply "decoration."

    and then you get into, what is xxx or xxy ?

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 06:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Fojos View Post
    Then people could change their mind all the time. It would be stupid.
    thats why they have all the other processes too. doesnt seem to be a problem in america.

  4. #164
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Northwest USA
    Posts
    2,708
    Quote Originally Posted by -Dalliah- View Post
    The hell? I haven't heard anything about this in the news over here in Sweden.
    it's probably because it's a huge distortion of the truth.. from everything I can find.. it just looks like if you want to legally change from male to female you better prove that you really really want to be a chick by doing major hormone therapy.. not just sport some anime style hairdo and act like a metrosexual..
    the most beautiful post I have ever read.. thank you Dr-1337 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22624432

  5. #165
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,377
    Quote Originally Posted by alilei31 View Post
    Im sorry I just dont get the whole transgender thing. You are either a man or a women you cant switch sides. This isnt WoW no faction changing allowed.
    Unfortunately, if the brain pattern is strongly female and the genes are male, then there's not much of a choice for that person.

    Plus the mental state of being male or female isn't black and white. There's a lot of grey areas (transvestitism, transgenderism, even homo- and bi-sexuality at a stretch), and people would rather be a gender that they feel rather than be a gender that they feel they aren't.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 0/5/5 | TPR: 0/3/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Legendary Overlooked, Glyphmaster Gunhaver

  6. #166
    Bloodsail Admiral Melanieshaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,103
    Quote Originally Posted by skatblast View Post
    Are we talking about a shemale or a crossdresser? Either way its pretty messed up
    is a derogatory term created for porn, and crossdresser has NOTHING do do with hormone therapy, and and actually changing documentation.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 07:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    it's probably because it's a huge distortion of the truth.. from everything I can find.. it just looks like if you want to legally change from male to female you better prove that you really really want to be a chick by doing major hormone therapy.. not just sport some anime style hairdo and act like a metrosexual..
    Yep, just like here in the states... it's not an easy thing to get those documents changed.

    I wish life was so black and white... male and female... but it isn't not for a lot of us.
    Last edited by Melanieshaman; 2012-01-19 at 03:38 AM.

  7. #167
    High Overlord holybud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    124
    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Crowley View Post
    Funny thing; we can force sterilize transgendered people who have done NOTHING wrong, but we can't force sterilize rapists and the like. You go world.
    How true! Its a sick sick world we live in these dayz!

  8. #168
    Bloodsail Admiral Melanieshaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,103
    Quote Originally Posted by holybud View Post
    How true! Its a sick sick world we live in these dayz!
    indeed! but i THINK the chemically castrate convicted pedophiles.. at least here in Cali.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by alilei31 View Post
    Im sorry I just dont get the whole transgender thing. You are either a man or a women you cant switch sides. This isnt WoW no faction changing allowed.
    So i can't change to Horde irl? If you don't get the whole "transgender thing" then why comment on it?

  10. #170
    Pandaren Monk Iron Dome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,904
    It's Europe, so don't expect any condemnation or reports from other European nations. This will just continue unnoticed, unfortunately.

  11. #171
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Århus
    Posts
    17,919
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Dome View Post
    It's Europe, so don't expect any condemnation or reports from other European nations. This will just continue unnoticed, unfortunately.
    Because European cant find any fault with one another's countries amirite... Ask anyone how they feel about Spain/Italy/Greece at the moment...

    Thats an incredibly ignorant statement you just made...

  12. #172
    Dunno why it matters really... they are sterilising the old gender... that they will never use again right? So that they can be a woman? or a man?

    Don't see why this is that much of an issue unless they are just being like casual wow players "I want the choice! to be a female or a male when I want".

    They are not forcing sterilisation, just saying "hey if u want to be a woman... you can no longer be a man". I wouldn't say its necessary but I can't see why people make such a fuss about it... unless they actually don't want to be women and just want to keep choosing between genders lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  13. #173
    Dunno why it matters really... they are sterilising the old gender... that they will never use again right? So that they can be a woman? or a man?
    It's more to do with the timing.
    There's basically a two-year window where your life will be living hell, and you'll actually have to fear for your life in some occasions. Getting the papers would help solve a lot of the problems in that time period, but yet, a transitioning person would not get those until the transition is complete in the sense that the government deems it so.

    Add to that the fact that, for FtM transitionists, it's better to not have the full bottom surgery done (though I'll agree that getting the ovaries and womb removed should be a good option), and you've got yourself a lot of trouble.
    Likewise, many MtF transitionist would rather not be have bottom surgery done. For health reasons, or simply for the fact they'd rather have a more functional sex-life. SRS can cause the vagina to be pretty much insensitive in the parts where it should be fully sensitive... And this can be a huge problem for people in a steady relationship. Better to have working parts that might look a bit out of place than have something that doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

    Trans people have sex too, you know.

  14. #174
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Århus
    Posts
    17,919
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    It's more to do with the timing.
    There's basically a two-year window where your life will be living hell, and you'll actually have to fear for your life in some occasions. Getting the papers would help solve a lot of the problems in that time period, but yet, a transitioning person would not get those until the transition is complete in the sense that the government deems it so.

    Add to that the fact that, for FtM transitionists, it's better to not have the full bottom surgery done (though I'll agree that getting the ovaries and womb removed should be a good option), and you've got yourself a lot of trouble.
    Likewise, many MtF transitionist would rather not be have bottom surgery done. For health reasons, or simply for the fact they'd rather have a more functional sex-life. SRS can cause the vagina to be pretty much insensitive in the parts where it should be fully sensitive... And this can be a huge problem for people in a steady relationship. Better to have working parts that might look a bit out of place than have something that doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

    Trans people have sex too, you know.
    Yes but being being the supplier of sperm by definition makes them the male parent... and vice versa

  15. #175
    Yes but being being the supplier of sperm by definition makes them the male parent... and vice versa
    Not... Necessarily.
    I know someone who's got three mothers. One of them is the stepmother, the other two are biological mothers.
    A parent is not decided by their role in conception; it is decided by their role as caretaker. Ultimately, 'mother' and 'father' are, in my opinion, silly concepts that really only reflect on who gets to carry the developing foetus, and, as we have gone beyond that point with adoptions and the medical ability for men to carry a developing foetus (if they so choose, and have the money for it), as well as for women to donate their genetic material to an outside receptor (turning egg-cells into just another kind of sperm, really), this distinction no longer holds up.

    That having said, you're still set on the topic title rather than the topic itself. It's not strictly speaking of sterilization; it's speaking about the final surgery, which happens to have sterilization as a side effect.

  16. #176
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Århus
    Posts
    17,919
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Not... Necessarily.
    I know someone who's got three mothers. One of them is the stepmother, the other two are biological mothers.
    A parent is not decided by their role in conception; it is decided by their role as caretaker. Ultimately, 'mother' and 'father' are, in my opinion, silly concepts that really only reflect on who gets to carry the developing foetus, and, as we have gone beyond that point with adoptions and the medical ability for men to carry a developing foetus (if they so choose, and have the money for it), as well as for women to donate their genetic material to an outside receptor (turning egg-cells into just another kind of sperm, really), this distinction no longer holds up.

    That having said, you're still set on the topic title rather than the topic itself. It's not strictly speaking of sterilization; it's speaking about the final surgery, which happens to have sterilization as a side effect.
    It doesnt matter who takes care of whom... The father will be the one surplying the sperm and the mother is the one who supplies the egg - it doesnt matter if its a surrogate who carries the baby - that doesnt change who the mother in fact is...

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-19 at 06:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    except its not. if an XX person is sterile because of birth defects or accident.. they dont suddenly become male. if an xy person is immune to testosterone and develops as a sterile female, that doesnt make them xx. so thats not a good way at all. the only "true" measurement is a dna test. the rest is simply "decoration."

    and then you get into, what is xxx or xxy ?
    Well obivously i took it as a given that people who read it would understand that this is concerning those who activly want to change their gender... >_>

  17. #177
    Bloodsail Admiral Talokami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    1,080
    I think part of the problem is the law is phrased very poorly. As has been discussed, HRT will make eventually make the individual sterile, and is much a cheaper and somewhat safer route than SRS. If the law's wording was changed to reflect hormone induced sterilization, I think people would feel much calmer.

    It definitely does appear that language was sadly meant to be degrading. I don't really know much about Swedish politics, but I thought some folks said a rather conservative Christian party was the one that insisted the wording stay this way?
    That fabric softener teddy bear...oooh I'm 'a hunt that little bitch down.

  18. #178
    Bloodsail Admiral Melanieshaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    1,103
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    It's more to do with the timing.
    There's basically a two-year window where your life will be living hell, and you'll actually have to fear for your life in some occasions. Getting the papers would help solve a lot of the problems in that time period, but yet, a transitioning person would not get those until the transition is complete in the sense that the government deems it so.

    Add to that the fact that, for FtM transitionists, it's better to not have the full bottom surgery done (though I'll agree that getting the ovaries and womb removed should be a good option), and you've got yourself a lot of trouble.
    Likewise, many MtF transitionist would rather not be have bottom surgery done. For health reasons, or simply for the fact they'd rather have a more functional sex-life. SRS can cause the vagina to be pretty much insensitive in the parts where it should be fully sensitive... And this can be a huge problem for people in a steady relationship. Better to have working parts that might look a bit out of place than have something that doesn't do what it's supposed to do.

    Trans people have sex too, you know.
    First bolded part- YES! I just exited that 2 year window, well not JUST, but a few months ago. It's still not easy, the older you are when you begin, the longer the HRT takes to mkae real differences.

    Second bolded part- Unless you're getting your GRS from a back alley doc, you should be fully functional (MtF btw), and orgasmic. VERY few people have any issues at all, as far as i have read. Lots of post op Trans women have a functional, and enjoyable sex life.

  19. #179
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,756
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    It doesnt matter who takes care of whom... The father will be the one surplying the sperm and the mother is the one who supplies the egg - it doesnt matter if its a surrogate who carries the baby - that doesnt change who the mother in fact is...[COLOR="red"]
    There's a difference between biological parenthood and the "roles" of mother/father. I believe that's the distinction which is being missed here. Being a biological father to someone is not the same as "fathering" someone as a continuous role. That's why people distinguish between "fathers" and "sperm donors", for example.

  20. #180
    The Insane Cattaclysmic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Århus
    Posts
    17,919
    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    There's a difference between biological parenthood and the "roles" of mother/father. I believe that's the distinction which is being missed here. Being a biological father to someone is not the same as "fathering" someone as a continuous role. That's why people distinguish between "fathers" and "sperm donors", for example.
    its more of a convienient term in everyday life to spare feelings... An appropriate term would be surrogate father... and the sperm donor is the biological father... One of them is the real one - the other is a term for the man who loves another man's kid as his own son and nothing is wrong with that... but that has nothing to do with the definition of the word

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •