View Poll Results: So is it right?

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  • Yes, it should go to top performers who don't have the item

    336 33.20%
  • No, your dumb and should not need of you have it.

    608 60.08%
  • Maybe, not sure.

    68 6.72%
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  1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by megrim View Post
    So in normal raids should guilds just let everyone free roll on every item they can use? You are abusing a broken system, a person wanting an upgrade is not greedy, a person rolling need on an item they have is. You can twist this any way you see fit, it doesn't change the fact that you are a greedy person by nature with this kind of logic.
    Lets try an analogy:

    You work right? Well if you dont, most companies give incentives and rewards to top performers. Now lets say the top performer gets a 100 dollar gift card for doing well that week. Lets say the next week he does well again. Now just because he won the prize last week, does it make him greedy for winning the prize this week? In your failed logic, he should not accept the prize because he "already has it."
    Flaks - My Pally
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  2. #562
    The Patient NotEniah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scdogg44 View Post
    On my Mage and hunter who have all tier already and most other gear from raid. I will need on the items I already have.

    If I win such item, I will use recount and determine which person I feel deserves it. Obviously I inspect the person first to see if he's gemmed/enchanted as well.

    But normally I give it to the best healer/dps.
    I do this, to some extent.

    However I don't just give it to the "topdpser", as gear matters.

    However it is incredibly easy to spot if someone has done well or not, in 80% of most cases, they simply don't know their rotation and hence to shit dps.

    I mean cmon, 99% of LFR members are decked out in 380+ itemlvl now, and still won't do above 20k on ultraxion.

    However, there's always some people that know how to play their class, and these are the ones I give the item to.
    A monkey in a mansuit

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Lets try an analogy:

    You work right? Well if you dont, most companies give incentives and rewards to top performers. Now lets say the top performer gets a 100 dollar gift card for doing well that week. Lets say the next week he does well again. Now just because he won the prize last week, does it make him greedy for winning the prize this week? In your failed logic, he should not accept the prize because he "already has it."
    The more you talk the more I take back my decision that I was wrong in the first place for making this thread.

    The more people agree with me and tell me why, I'm heading towards doing this even more.

    Bottom line is, until blizzard somehow fixes the whole loot system, I can roll on it regardless. Of I win I can do as I choose.

    Which clearly beats any other decision.

    I take it back, I'm not dumb and I'm glad I do this for people who clearly deserve it.


    Do me a favor and don't correct my spelling/grammar. I browse this site with a cell phone. Try harder next time to be an ass.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Lets try an analogy:

    You work right? Well if you dont, most companies give incentives and rewards to top performers. Now lets say the top performer gets a 100 dollar gift card for doing well that week. Lets say the next week he does well again. Now just because he won the prize last week, does it make him greedy for winning the prize this week? In your failed logic, he should not accept the prize because he "already has it."
    A better analogy would be him only being allowed to use one of the gift cards but now he has two. Should that gift card be given to the next best performer or to the worst performer?

  5. #565
    Threads like this really show the biggest problem with the WoW community. It's not the newb or lazy players. It's the self-important egotistical jerks who get butthurt when someone unworthy wins loot and feels the need to play master looter.

    The funny thing is that when asked most of these people admit they wouldn't act like such douches in LFD and roll need on stuff they didn't need. It's only LFR that they feel the need to act like dicks complete with all the rationalizations and justifications for why they're actually helping the game by keeping loot away from baddies.

    I always knew there were a bunch of douchebags in the game, but it's only from these MMO-Champ threads that I've realized how prevalent asshole behavior has become. And ironically this asshole behavior comes from a lot of people who complain about how bad the WoW community is these days.

  6. #566
    Bloodsail Admiral melak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    Time to be as clear as possible I think, by cunning use of the example!

    Imagine 2 alternate realities. They are identical in every single way except 1 day a chance happening changes the 2 realities. You queue for LFR...

    In reality A you are grouped with 23 people and John. John is ret pally with DS Heroic gear in every slot. On the first boss a dps ring drops, and John rolls need along with you and 3 other people.
    In reality B you are grouped with the same 23 people and Ben. Ben is also a ret pally, but his gear is mix of LFR gear and heroic gear, and he does his job. The same loot drops, and Ben needs the ring for personal use, so he clicks need.

    Now at this point, think carefully about the difference between John and Ben? They are both there, helping to kill bosses, putting time and effort into the raid. They have both done their bit for the group. The only difference between them is not particularly important - John is more than likely doing more dps than Ben.

    Let us also consider you, our valiant protagonist. What is different for you? In both cases you have a 20% chance of winning the official roll. Good luck valiant protagonist!
    Damn. You rolled 162 and lost, what a pity. John and Ben win in both realities with a roll of 183. At this point in reality B, the loot is gone. In reality A however, there is still potential. It turns out that John rolled need because the warrior, one of the other 3 rollers, was afk for the whole fight! The cheek of it. The warrior rolled 179, so it's a good thing John rolled. John then looks at the rolls and says "oh look, valiant protagonist was the next roll after the warrior, I'll give it to him." John has at this stage managed to do the apparently impossible, and distribute loot better than a random number generator.

    But you called John greedy so he gave the ring to the DK.

    Better luck next time valiant protagonist!
    short summary:

    if they have the piece of gear in question already : they are just greedy
    If none of them in your fancy example have the item, fair roll.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by scdogg44 View Post
    The more you talk the more I take back my decision that I was wrong in the first place for making this thread.

    The more people agree with me and tell me why, I'm heading towards doing this even more.

    Bottom line is, until blizzard somehow fixes the whole loot system, I can roll on it regardless. Of I win I can do as I choose.

    Which clearly beats any other decision.

    I take it back, I'm not dumb and I'm glad I do this for people who clearly deserve it.
    So because you've seen that a ton of posters on MMO-Champ also act like dickheads in LFR, you'll keep doing it more. And then you blame Blizzard for not stopping you.

    Nice moral fiber you got there.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    A ninja is somebody who lays out loot rules as master looter, and then breaks those rules.

    Somebody who rolls need on an item they have every right to roll need on is not a ninja, and in fact ninjaing is categorically impossible under need before greed (and all the other enforced looting systems) because the game will not allow you to roll on something you aren't allowed to roll on... surprisingly.
    What you describe is a scam, not ninja looting. It is impossible to ninja loot in WoW because mobs get tapped. However, you can still ninja chests and herbs/mining nodes out in the world.

  9. #569
    asshat move, people like this are why i dont use lfr anymore. justify it all you want, you are breaking an already broken loot system even more...

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by melak View Post
    short summary:

    if they have the piece of gear in question already : they are just greedy
    They are greedy because you don't have an increased chance at winning the roll? Do you even realise how self-centred you are sounding?

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    They are greedy because you don't have an increased chance at winning the roll? Do you even realise how self-centred you are sounding?
    Do you hit "need" on items you don't need in LFD? If you do, you're pretty greedy.

    Same applies in LFR.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Lets try an analogy:

    You work right? Well if you dont, most companies give incentives and rewards to top performers. Now lets say the top performer gets a 100 dollar gift card for doing well that week. Lets say the next week he does well again. Now just because he won the prize last week, does it make him greedy for winning the prize this week? In your failed logic, he should not accept the prize because he "already has it."
    Awful, awful analogy. In order for this to be a valid analogy, it would require you to have only a finite amount of desire for money or in this case a gift card. If you were relating it to wow, it would be 1 or possibly 2 gift cards is the maximum you could hold. Since people are naturally greedy and would generally always accept more money, this situation is very very different. In LFR you have 1, 2, or possibly 3 different uses for an itme.. and once all of those are fulfilled, you're basically just selling it for 20 gold.

    A better analogy would be:

    You are offered an all you can eat buffet coupon that expires within the next hour from when you recieve it. You would of course go use it. After you have eaten, the owner of the buffet offers you a similar coupon. You may take it again in an hour or so just because its free and you may have a slight bit of room left. Now, if he offers you the same coupon again, what would you do? Eat again when you probably can't... or give it away to someone you feel deserving of food??

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    What you describe is a scam, not ninja looting. It is impossible to ninja loot in WoW because mobs get tapped. However, you can still ninja chests and herbs/mining nodes out in the world.
    The original pre-wow meaning of ninja perhaps, but now imo a scam in general use tends to be only things involving trade, eg. you agree to craft something for somebody but just take their mats and run.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 06:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Do you hit "need" on items you don't need in LFD? If you do, you're pretty greedy.

    Same applies in LFR.
    There is no reason to do it in LFD, there are no people afk or being completely carried in LFD groups I have been in because it's generally not possible to do it, let alone get away with it, in such a small setting.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by samanx View Post
    keeps new people from getting needed gear, not fair
    Can you please explain this?

    I walk up into LFR on my shit 365 geared warlock (i used pvp gear in my inventory to "cheat" the system and get into LFR with the 372 item level) I end up hitting 5th on dps on EVERY boss. So technically I am new to LFR on that character, yet I out perform 10 other derps with gear levels in the 380s? That is simply not a valid argument.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 10:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by klorx View Post
    I never wanna queue with you, never. Such a dick move, on the other side: i see what you're doing. Giving the people who have the right to have it sounds legit, but still a dickmove imo
    How would you feel if you lost the need roll but you did well on your performance and that person gave you the item? How would you feel then?
    Flaks - My Pally
    My Diablo 3 Demon Hunter - Impale Build
    To all my fans, thank you for your support over the years. ~sincerely Jaylock
    Mop was the biggest heaping pile of dog shit that was ever created as a WoW expansion.
    "The trouble with our liberal friends isn't that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn’t true." - Ronald Regan

  15. #575
    I do the same thing but I take it a step higher, I look at their gear too. If they are gemmed all wrong they aren't getting gear. If it comes down to a healer getting gear I'll usually look at their gear, charts don't really measure anything. Bad people make the game overall less fun, and I feel the less gear they obtain the less compelled they will be to play.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    There is no reason to do it in LFD, there are no people afk or being completely carried in LFD groups I have been in because it's generally not possible to do it, let alone get away with it, in such a small setting.
    You've never carried anyone in LFD? Are you serious? How many LFDs have you run? You must be the luckiest guy in the world if you've never carried a bad DPS in a LFD run in Cata.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    The original pre-wow meaning of ninja perhaps, but now imo a scam in general use tends to be only things involving trade, eg. you agree to craft something for somebody but just take their mats and run.
    No it is still the official definition of ninja by Blizzard as of yesterday. http://us.battle.net/support/en/arti...zzard-s-stance

    There are many kinds of scams in game, not just the ML breaking of posted loot rules.

  18. #578
    The Unstoppable Force Resentful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    You've never carried anyone in LFD? Are you serious? How many LFDs have you run? You must be the luckiest guy in the world if you've never carried a bad DPS in a LFD run in Cata.
    The guy is likely lying if he thinks hes not carrying anyone, That's just plain funny right there.

  19. #579
    Stood in the Fire Rilec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Do you hit "need" on items you don't need in LFD? If you do, you're pretty greedy.

    Same applies in LFR.
    If I give that item over to someone who deserves it, that's not greedy.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Do you hit "need" on items you don't need in LFD? If you do, you're pretty greedy.

    Same applies in LFR.
    It's not for you to decide whether anyone other than yourself should roll need on something they've earned in a Need/Greed system.

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