View Poll Results: So is it right?

Voters
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  • Yes, it should go to top performers who don't have the item

    336 33.20%
  • No, your dumb and should not need of you have it.

    608 60.08%
  • Maybe, not sure.

    68 6.72%
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  1. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    A flood of angry threads on the official forums about people demanding changes to the LFR loot system because people are able to need items they don't need or can't use proves you wrong.
    No it doesn't. Even if we ignore the fact that they are not exactly the same issue, a vocal group of people pushing their own morals is not etiquette. The fact that the outrage was so widespread in fact suggests that this was happening a lot, ie. the norm.

    Blizzards changes have nothing at all to do with etiquette, they are enforced limitations on the system which removed some loot abilities which would simply never make sense.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by Akademiks View Post
    Who are you to be in the position to delegate such loot? What if the loot dispute is between a tank and a healer?What good does recount do then?
    If he was eligible for tank loot then it's either him or the other tank that could of rolled anyway, derp? Also, if someone is doing less healing than the Shadow Priest, that's usually a good indicator of whether or not they pulled their weight.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 11:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Starting an encounter before the group is ready can be considered griefing and reported. Especially in between fights when people leave and join and you're often not at full raid. Wait, was someone else doing this or were you the one doing this?
    Because combat logs show who started the encounter, right? ...

  3. #643
    Stood in the Fire Rilec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    You are in no position to decide who has "earned" what; its not nor will it ever be your call to make. You know you are being an asshat, and are just looking for like-minded people to tell you its okay probably because you feel some guilt knowing what you are doing is a douchebag thing to do.
    Actually, if he wins the roll for the item fairly, he is in a perfect position to decide who has "earned" it in his eyes. It will always be his call to make, since he won a fair roll between everyone else who also tossed their chance in.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    No it doesn't. Even if we ignore the fact that they are not exactly the same issue, a vocal group of people pushing their own morals is not etiquette. The fact that the outrage was so widespread in fact suggests that this was happening a lot, ie. the norm.

    Blizzards changes have nothing at all to do with etiquette, they are enforced limitations on the system which removed some loot abilities which would simply never make sense.
    If it was the norm, why would there be outrage?

    Can you think of about other action in WoW that's in line with social etiquette that's caused so much outrage?

  5. #645
    So some people feel that the Warlock using bane of Agony and Fel flame as filler (doing 10k dps) should recieve loot over the warlock properly following his rotation doing 30k dps? There should be a skill cap to join LFR, and people saying how are people ever going to replace their pvp gear? New dungeons say hello Firelands says hello.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Espirion View Post
    So some people feel that the Warlock using bane of Agony and Fel flame as filler (doing 10k dps) should recieve loot over the warlock properly following his rotation doing 30k dps? There should be a skill cap to join LFR, and people saying how are people ever going to replace their pvp gear? New dungeons say hello Firelands says hello.
    That's an awfully large strawman you've got there.

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargas View Post
    You are in no position to decide who has "earned" what; its not nor will it ever be your call to make. You know you are being an asshat, and are just looking for like-minded people to tell you its okay probably because you feel some guilt knowing what you are doing is a douchebag thing to do.
    I would say that the 7k DPS that died to Ice Waves is more of a douchebag by rolling on the item in the first place. If these idiots arn't going to pass when they clearly should be doing, then it's up to players like the OP and me to put things right. I've seen players in full LFR tier, trinkets, DW weapon, everything and they still do not have a clue how to play, it's just the same as vendoring the drops, because those players just aint using em properly.

    It's not hard to pull decent DPS or HPS in the gear required for LFR, nor is it hard to research the tank mechanics before joining. If you don't perform I attempt to take the loot from you and give to someone else, got a problem with that? then L2P.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    I would say that the 7k DPS that died to Ice Waves is more of a douchebag by rolling on the item in the first place. If these idiots arn't going to pass when they clearly should be doing, then it's up to players like the OP and me to put things right. I've seen players in full LFR tier, trinkets, DW weapon, everything and they still do not have a clue how to play, it's just the same as vendoring the drops, because those players just aint using em properly.

    It's not hard to pull decent DPS or HPS in the gear required for LFR, nor is it hard to research the tank mechanics before joining. If you don't perform I attempt to take the loot from you and give to someone else, got a problem with that? then L2P.
    I agree with everything you have said here.

    Also:

    Posting in an epic thread.

  9. #649
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    In every single game with a need/greed roll system, it is considered against social etiquette to roll need on an item you don't need or can't equip. Can you name one game where it isn't this way?
    The burden of proof is not on me. I never claimed what was or was not considered social etiquette either. I pointed out that "social etiquette" is a term in flux. As a note, some players simply don't care about social etiquette, or societal norms. Who are you to say differently?

    I cite queer theory on my behalf. Who is to say what is or is not right, when the official rules allow both sides to be "correct"? Society? Society as a whole is selfish. Normal means, normal behavior is dictated in such as fashion as to cause comfort, and to erase actions considered "unpleasant". That's often a bad thing. Especially in a game, where these views stifle emergent gameplay.

    I prepare for the logical fallacies to roll in.
    Last edited by Darkfriend; 2012-01-17 at 11:55 PM.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    If it was the norm, why would there be outrage?

    Can you think of about other action in WoW that's in line with social etiquette that's caused so much outrage?
    People are greedy jerks. Whether they want the gear to progress, DE, or vendor, it's still plain greed. Getting that piece of loot isn't going to keep your family from starving.

  11. #651
    The Lightbringer Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    People are greedy jerks. Whether they want the gear to progress, DE, or vendor, it's still plain greed. Getting that piece of loot isn't going to keep your family from starving.
    Again, give some reason for why its bad. As well, you really said nothing other then saying everyone is a jerk. State your stance and defend it logically. This is general discussion. Not rants, or general vitriol.

  12. #652
    What about the classes that work better for certain fights or are superior in general?

    What if an arcane mage got top dps but an unholy dk came second or third with average gear but plays really really good and enjoys his spec, Who would you give it to?
    What if some guy died early in the fight because of slack healers but was cressed later?
    What if someone plays a fire mage but gets really really bad RNG and get's an awful crit rate?
    What if they DC briefly during the fight?
    What if their graphics card crashed but recovered?
    What if some player joined with friends, especially rogues who constantly give him tricks of the trade or power infusions?

    LFR is the where people go to be the biggest assholes they can be without punishment.

    Imo, let LFR run it's course, if you don't need the item, don't just need to give to someone else. There are too many factors involved why people don't perform as well they would or usually would.

    The LFR system is a fantastic addition to the game, it makes it easy to jump into content and relax without committing yourself to a guild/schedule. It's a big part of why I'm subbed, I don't raid normal/heroic in a guild anymore.

    However, it seriously needs greater punishment for players who need on random stuff they don't need or a way to vote kick during combat if some guy is afking just for loot.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    Starting an encounter before the group is ready can be considered griefing and reported. Especially in between fights when people leave and join and you're often not at full raid. Wait, was someone else doing this or were you the one doing this?
    I've seen it happen a couple times and I've seen other people complain about it (there was a thread on MMOC in the past week about it as well). I try-hard in every group (even LFD/LFR) because that's the type of person I am. Spout your jaded views of me (and others like me) all you like, but at the end of the day we're the only ones discouraging leechers while you ignore the problem at hand in hopes Blizzard will take steps to police the game for you.

  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    Again, give some reason for why its bad. As well, you really said nothing other then saying everyone is a jerk. State your stance and defend it logically. This is general discussion. Not rants, or general vitriol.
    I'm sorry I can't reply to every person on the internet with a personalized essay. Also, I didn't say it was bad.

  15. #655
    Stood in the Fire Rilec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kejinx View Post
    What about the classes that work better for certain fights or are superior in general?

    What if an arcane mage got top dps but an unholy dk came second or third with average gear but plays really really good and enjoys his spec, Who would you give it to?
    What if some guy died early in the fight because of slack healers but was cressed later?
    What if someone plays a fire mage but gets really really bad RNG and get's an awful crit rate?
    What if they DC briefly during the fight?
    What if their graphics card crashed but recovered?
    What if some player joined with friends, especially rogues who constantly give him tricks of the trade or power infusions?

    LFR is the where people go to be the biggest assholes they can be without punishment.

    Imo, let LFR run it's course, if you don't need the item, don't just need to give to someone else. There are too many factors involved why people don't perform as well they would or usually would.

    The LFR system is a fantastic addition to the game, it makes it easy to jump into content and relax without committing yourself to a guild/schedule. It's a big part of why I'm subbed, I don't raid normal/heroic in a guild anymore.

    However, it seriously needs greater punishment for players who need on random stuff they don't need or a way to vote kick during combat if some guy is afking just for loot.
    Even with all of that, if the person was able to roll on loot, he still had a fair, equal chance to win the original roll between all of the eligible players. If he didn't win, he didn't win.

  16. #656
    Bloodsail Admiral melak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    WoW.

    Prove me wrong.
    how about the fact that most ppl in this thread voted against this kind of behavior, and also, how many people in here have not argued over your ego logic? But ofcourse you are just going to ignore that cause oh no, you can not be wrong can you ?

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by melak View Post
    how about the fact that most ppl in this thread voted against this kind of behavior, and also, how many people in here have not argued over your ego logic? But ofcourse you are just going to ignore that cause oh no, you can not be wrong can you ?
    It wouldn't be the first time the vocal majority was filled with ignorant/misinformed/naive people and it won't be the last.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by melak View Post
    how about the fact that most ppl in this thread voted against this kind of behavior, and also, how many people in here have not argued over your ego logic? But ofcourse you are just going to ignore that cause oh no, you can not be wrong can you ?
    Considering it's usually 7-8 decent players in LFR, then of course it makes sense that the majority voting here don't approve of it, they'd never get any gear...

  19. #659
    On the topic of social etiquette: How about societies where a woman is considered the property of their father until they are married when they become the property of the husband? This is still in practice today. Social etiquette is arbitrary and varies.

  20. #660
    The Lightbringer Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Do you get kicked often doing that? People inspect a lot in LFR, you rolled need while having the gear I'd be surprised if someone didn't hit the roof and demand a kick, especially since you're a dime-a-dozen DPS on both characters you pull this with.

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