About Ferals.

[Proberly]

How come a spec can have so much of everything, and yet excells at most?

Constant slows without having to sacrifice damage.
Several gap closers including ranged interrupt + 40% constant run speed in cat form.
The probably most powerful dots (damage wise per dot) that cannot be dispelled in form of bleeds. (unless you waste immunity like block/bubble/bop)
Instant CC, Cyclone which cannot be dispelled, stuns and roots.
Powerful pressure, and intense burst.
Serious self healing capabilities.
Armor reduction.
Going bearformlulz while dots keep ticking, to pop frenzied regen and be unkillable for the 20 second duration.
Stealth and with it, get the opener in a fight.
20% damage reduction which is usable while cc'ed (stunned for example).
Ferals recieve almost no punishment for switching forms other than using globals that could have been used on damage (who cares dots are ticking for shitloads anyway).
They cannot be disarmed.
They are immune to polymorphs/hex by just being ferals.
They also dodge like bawses.

Yes this is biased against ferals, so I'd like to also have your POV. Do you feel overpowered compared to other melees? I can't think of any other melee who has as huge a package as this. And what they have usually come at a costly price. Warriors have to basicly swap all their damage to just survive with shield wall, or when spellreflecting, rets have to sacrifice shitloads of damage to heal with wog/50% of their damage to gain a 6 sec immunity that instantly gets dispelled, DK's have to sacrifice their pets, and if it's dead GLHF, and rogues have to run around and recuperate/bandage in stealth.

Arenas really gave me brain damage today, as almost every team consisted of x/x/feral in 3's and x/feral in 2's. This was around 2-2.2k mmr so not super high I know.

[hullaballoonatic]

First of all, while ferals are very powerful, putting their abilities in this context is always going to be hyperbolic. If diluted down to only a list of their strengths, most specs in the game will seem remarkably overpowered.

Secondly, I wouldn't worry about ferals remaining in this state. In MoP when cats and bears are separated in specializations, feral in pvp will lose a very substantial amount of its versatility. Here is a list off the top of my head that feral cats are losing: insect swarm, starfire, hurricane, tranquility, nourish, regrowth, lifebloom, remove corruption, lacerate, survival instincts, enrage, frenzied regeneration, pulverize, crit immunity in bear, and vengeance. I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

[Gandrake]

A lot of people seem to think that Feral is Balanced in 3s, but they are just such a nuisance in anything else. They can take an enormous ass beating, they can heal, they can cc, they have the best damage and mobility in the game.

Did some 2s last night before reset, every team we lost to had a feral or blood dk in it. I know I played games w/ a Rogue who couldn't do anything outside of stealth because he got crapped on every time because he had no resil, but god damn. Almost 20 fucking games of feral and blood dk skill.

[Proberly]

First of all, while ferals are very powerful, putting their abilities in this context is always going to be hyperbolic. If diluted down to only a list of their strengths, most specs in the game will seem remarkably overpowered.

Secondly, I wouldn't worry about ferals remaining in this state. In MoP when cats and bears are separated in specializations, feral in pvp will lose a very substantial amount of its versatility. Here is a list off the top of my head that feral cats are losing: insect swarm, starfire, hurricane, tranquility, nourish, regrowth, lifebloom, remove corruption, lacerate, survival instincts, enrage, frenzied regeneration, pulverize, crit immunity in bear, and vengeance. I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

I know they're taking a hit in MoP, but it's still frustrating. Feels like Blizzard don't give a damn just because "MoP will fix lots of stuff". Don't forget that alot of other classes will lose important stuff that they have now, so Ferals won't lose much more than any other class.

Ferals have also been in this state this entire expansion, except in 4.0 when they were even more powerful.

Any other class that have had a taste of power even close to the power of Ferals have been severely nerfed quickly, or over time.

[zcks]

Afraid if your waiting for good balance in WoW PvP then your going to be waiting forever.


They know what they need to do but refuse to do so because they feel it would make the game to complicated for new players.

What they need to do is simple

1: Forget their personal feelings & outdated preconceptions of what classes should be because the game has changed greatly over the years & their "Vision" or lack there of is very imbalanced & outdated.

2: Dramatically increase the amount of abilities which have separate effects in PVE & PvP because it's nearly impossible if not impossible to have so many do the exact same thing while being balanced.

3: Increase the list of things that cause diminishing returns because there are a few things that could be added to that list.

4: Redesign the dispel & offensive dispel system from the ground up not just fiddle with dispel CD's like that plan to do in MOP.

[Rahynn]

20% damage reduction which is usable while cc'ed (stunned for example).

if this is a problem, then mages cant blink out of stuns dks cant Ibf out of stuns etc

Ferals recieve almost no punishment for switching forms other than using globals that could have been used on damage (who cares dots are ticking for shitloads anyway).

except for those times where you get stunned whilst switching forms, seems to happen alot lately

They are immune to polymorphs/hex by just being ferals.

but being in cat allows me to be hibernated/scare beast also instant hex from enchance shams.

[biggischkris]

L2P issues is all
Spam roots on the feral, byebye dmg
CC em during regen is byebye survival
dispel/purge the procs is byebye cc

i rofl at ferals on my mage n rogue

[traen]

Learn to play.

There is a way to deal with ALL feral abilities. With EVERY of them.
If you can't - it just means that you are bad PvP player who played pvp with some kind of faceroll fotm class before.

BTW, why don't you want to try to play feral? You will understand that playing feral is not easy at all and next time you face feral you will know his weaknesses.

[zcks]

L2P issues is all
Spam roots on the feral, byebye dmg
CC em during regen is byebye survival
dispel/purge the procs is byebye cc

i rofl at ferals on my mage n rogue

Please explain to me what class is it your playing that can spam roots ? Cause last time I checked only druids had a root spell that could be spammed.


No matter what you think about feral cats you have to admit that they just have to much flexibility & fill their off role capabilities too well.

If they were to lose access to allot of the dodge/tanking talents & have a slight reduction in healing coefficients via talents while in feral spec then they would be in a much better place overall balance wise.

---------- Post added 2012-01-18 at 01:08 AM ----------

Learn to play.

There is a way to deal with ALL feral abilities. With EVERY of them.
If you can't - it just means that you are bad PvP player who played pvp with some kind of faceroll fotm class before.

BTW, why don't you want to try to play feral? You will understand that playing feral is not easy at all and next time you face feral you will know his weaknesses.

While telling someone to L2P is trolling I will admit allot of what your saying is true, as long as you play in specific team set ups.

The problem is bigger then just one spec sadly, the problem ranges from the way some classes/specs are designed to the way some abilities like CC/roots/snares to offensive & defensive dispels are designed. It has always been skewed in favor of some classes & specs over others & there has never been a season or expansion without a spec that was massively more powerful then most others.


Unless WoW management changes their minds on allot of things or the game gets new design managers for PvP, class balance & class design areas the problems with PvP & class balance are unlikely to ever change because the current ones are trying to hold onto as much of their BC & vanilla notions of class design & class balance as they can even though the game has changed drastically.

[naturetauren]

I have not played this game for months but the armor reduction, its still 10% after 3 GCDs right? (Lol i might be wrong here, i dont remember how faerie feral works anymore due to not being playing feral) Does that really make a big difference?

Yes, ferals are overpowered. I entered arena as a full pvp geared moonkin and got almost one shot by an equal geared feral druid-_-

[Johnmatrix]

L2P issues is all
Spam roots on the feral, byebye dmg
CC em during regen is byebye survival
dispel/purge the procs is byebye cc

i rofl at ferals on my mage n rogue

Your post explains itself. The only spec in the game with almost spammable roots, enough cc to actually cc the feral and kite it when he uses cooldowns, and a spammable dispel. We can talk about the balance of frost mage but it does not belong in this thread.

OT: Feral is very strong in arenas, but a lot better in 2s than in 3s. Feral+healer is a faceroll 2v2 team because of the things mentioned in the first post.

[naturetauren]

L2P issues is all
Spam roots on the feral, byebye dmg
CC em during regen is byebye survival
dispel/purge the procs is byebye cc

i rofl at ferals on my mage n rogue

I suggest you to roll a moonkin druid and try owning a good feral. And post a vid about it.

Learn to play.

There is a way to deal with ALL feral abilities. With EVERY of them.
If you can't - it just means that you are bad PvP player who played pvp with some kind of faceroll fotm class before.

BTW, why don't you want to try to play feral? You will understand that playing feral is not easy at all and next time you face feral you will know his weaknesses.

I have played moonkin since vanilla and i got owned by ferals all the time in arena. Am i a bad player cause my Starsurge hits for like 1/10 of a feral druid skill?

[Feranor]

How come a spec can have so much of everything, and yet excells at most?

Constant slows without having to sacrifice damage.
Several gap closers including ranged interrupt + 40% constant run speed in cat form.
The probably most powerful dots (damage wise per dot) that cannot be dispelled in form of bleeds. (unless you waste immunity like block/bubble/bop)
Instant CC, Cyclone which cannot be dispelled, stuns and roots.
Powerful pressure, and intense burst.
Serious self healing capabilities.
Armor reduction.
Going bearformlulz while dots keep ticking, to pop frenzied regen and be unkillable for the 20 second duration.
Stealth and with it, get the opener in a fight.
20% damage reduction which is usable while cc'ed (stunned for example).
Ferals recieve almost no punishment for switching forms other than using globals that could have been used on damage (who cares dots are ticking for shitloads anyway).
They cannot be disarmed.
They are immune to polymorphs/hex by just being ferals.
They also dodge like bawses.

Yes this is biased against ferals, so I'd like to also have your POV. Do you feel overpowered compared to other melees? I can't think of any other melee who has as huge a package as this. And what they have usually come at a costly price. Warriors have to basicly swap all their damage to just survive with shield wall, or when spellreflecting, rets have to sacrifice shitloads of damage to heal with wog/50% of their damage to gain a 6 sec immunity that instantly gets dispelled, DK's have to sacrifice their pets, and if it's dead GLHF, and rogues have to run around and recuperate/bandage in stealth.

Arenas really gave me brain damage today, as almost every team consisted of x/x/feral in 3's and x/feral in 2's. This was around 2-2.2k mmr so not super high I know.

Slows are nothing special anymore.
Every melee has several options of closing gaps, increasing movement speed and/or preventing the enemy from running away.
Bleeds, unlike magical DoTs, require ramp-up, and are thus limited to one target most of the time. They also don't serve as Dispel protection.
Are you intentionally omitting the requirements for a Feral's instant CC? I think you are.
Countered by a long downtime. Besides, which class except specs like Balance or Destro WL doesn't qualify for this?
No. Feral self healing sucks.
This is the first time I've seen someone QQ about the armor reduction of Faerie Fire. You seem desperate.
Stop feeding the bear rage. Win. The fact that this simple counter that's been valid since Vanilla is above you explains all of your problems.
Stealth? So now we're complaining about the very basic abilities of a class?
Barkskin? Seriously?
Nonsense. They lose all Vengeance, all Rage, Frenzied Regen, their pressure drops almost immediately since they're so dependent on PS procs; and as you mentioned, but cowardly tried to downplay, tons of wasted GCDs.
Ferals can be disarmed.
Ferals are not immune to any CC. In addition, they can be hibernated and feared by Scare Beast, which no other class suffers from (except Shaman in Ghost Wolf).
Dodge? Hit them from behind. It's not like they have a 75% Snare like Rogues. They also can't parry.

Ferals are very strong against players who don't understand how they work (except Mages of course, doesn't really matter in that case). I destroy other Ferals because I do.

[zenga]

In 4.3.2 they will have no longer the ability to stack vengeance in pvp, so if they go bear their dmg will be very mediocre (at the same time is the blood dk problem solved).

[Wolfdragon]

Let's make this simple, QQ thread about feral big whoop this is what gets me
Constant slows without having to sacrifice damage. Rogues have this aswell, however theirs is stronger
Several gap closers including ranged interrupt + 40% constant run speed in cat form. Slowable and the class that is most impacted by slows in general
The probably most powerful dots (damage wise per dot) that cannot be dispelled in form of bleeds. (unless you waste immunity like block/bubble/bop) Don't work like warlock dots and are the biggest part of our singletarget damage package- and are thus alot less powerfull than warlock dots, that's something actually worth qq'ing about
Instant CC, Cyclone which cannot be dispelled, stuns and roots. Cyclone is heavily DR'd Stuns are eighter: 1 every 40sec or once every 10 however for the 10sec stun you sacrifice 1 rip probably falls off the target 2 you probably lose all of your energy nullifying your damage
Powerful pressure, and intense burst. Pressure is powerfull because of the bleeds this is intended intense burst- Everybody has this no way around it- some burst better than others tho(talking about ferals vs. ferals some can't burst for shit, yet some just destroy)
Serious self healing capabilities. Frenzied regen, which is in turn weaker than warriors self heal, and in turn also works like a last stand, requires shifting into bearform (thus impecable timing if you want to maximimise it's value) It also has a 3min cooldown-Balanced no?
Armor reduction. 12 %, it's just like sunder armor, it's a joke compared to collosus smash/find weakness
Going bearformlulz while dots keep ticking, to pop frenzied regen and be unkillable for the 20 second duration. Yeah... Umm just no rather bad ferals sit bearform, because it's a joke the damage is bad, the dots need refreshing and it's literally only there for the frenzied regen atm.
Stealth and with it, get the opener in a fight. Rogues do too
20% damage reduction which is usable while cc'ed (stunned for example). Is there because we have less armor than most other classes, we need it to relieve pressure, it's like a basic class ability, OUR thing, not worth qqing about
Ferals recieve almost no punishment for switching forms other than using globals that could have been used on damage (who cares dots are ticking for shitloads anyway).Actually for a feral to shift while he has energy is way more punishing damage wise than it is for a rogue or something similar, because we regen energy preety slow. Shapeshifting incurs global cooldowns which whether you like it or not mean shitloads for a meleeclass especially while fighting ranged
They cannot be disarmed. We can we lose a huge portion of our damage, however we can still hit you.
They are immune to polymorphs/hex by just being ferals. No, just by being in feral form, however vulnerable to 2 specific cc's in Scare Beast and Hibernate
They also dodge like bawses. Rogues do too, but they can parry aswell

Your qq makes no sence.

[Serurian]

Not only does the OP's whine have so many things factually incorrect he comes across as a 1k arena player or just random bg'er who lost to a feral. Doesn't know any of the mechanics, how the mechanics actually work, or any of the counters.

Feral is so far from too strong now, in 2's feral might be strong with the right comp but in 3's not nearly as much. So can we skip the whole I was playing 2's and lost to a 2's team that had a feral and x?

The days of the insane bleeds are patches ago, now they are more annoying than devestating. Barkskin is not some huge factor, armor in cat is so low that any feral pretty much has to take survival instincts as well now, even then any mage can still destroy a feral, with their low skill required play.

[fresak]

Because blizzard tryes to balance the game around 3v3. Ferals is quite a good 1v1 class, with a few counters like mages and rogues ( if they are good ) and ferals imo are quite balanced in 3s, but they arent op. Rogues have taken that spot this season, ferals takes huge dmg without barksin or trinket up, especcialy againts casters. And you can dispell Predator's swiftness btw

[Serurian]

If someone just lets the feral use every Predator's Swiftness to get off instant spells they deserve to be steamrolled. You can easily silence, CC, dispell to keep them from that window while PS is up, and even then they have to build it off a 5CP setup or get lucky with anything under 5CP.

The whole feral's have spammable CC is such a farce, sure a good feral can chain clone you but he is hard casting after the first one or your team is helping him build CP by being bad.

[Erto]

L2P issues is all
Spam roots on the feral, byebye dmg
CC em during regen is byebye survival
dispel/purge the procs is byebye cc

i rofl at ferals on my mage n rogue

Mages and Rogues are probably the two most Overpowered classes in 1vs1 situations. Bad argument is bad. Go troll somewhere else FOTM whore.

[Serurian]

The whole game is completely unbalanced when it comes to 1vs1 pvp, why that is ever used as an argument for or against something I will never know. If every class had as much chance to beat every class in 1vs1, I am not sure if the game would be worse then it is now or better. I have to think it would be worse, any real pvp with a team of any size would be a complete wreck, if it was all balanced to 1vs1.