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  1. #41
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    That's what I thought...which is why I'm a confused asura.......
    Don't be, you can do it, although it might just be a bit harder than normal, that because there are certain combinations which work better than others, this always was the case and this goes for any MMO.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  2. #42
    Uhm.. I was talking about explorer mode dungeons ;s. See, that's why I usually refrain from posting, I just can't seem to get my point across skilfully ;].

    So yeah, in story mode there will be no issue for any professions combo. You can take whoever you like and as long as everyone is paying attention - you will clear it. I'm just afraid that this will not work so well in explorer mode.

    Also please remember that this is still just my point of view based on what we can gather now about the game. But I remember how many times Anet was stressing about how difficult explorer dungeon will be and that lead me to those conclusions.

    Btw, I think we are getting offtopic here ;P. You can create dungeon difficulty topic so we can throw in some more ideas/suggestions/observations.

  3. #43
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    Uhm.. I was talking about explorer mode dungeons ;s. See, that's why I usually refrain from posting, I just can't seem to get my point across skilfully ;].

    So yeah, in story mode there will be no issue for any professions combo. You can take whoever you like and as long as everyone is paying attention - you will clear it. I'm just afraid that this will not work so well in explorer mode.

    Also please remember that this is still just my point of view based on what we can gather now about the game. But I remember how many times Anet was stressing about how difficult explorer dungeon will be and that lead me to those conclusions.

    Btw, I think we are getting offtopic here ;P. You can create dungeon difficulty topic so we can throw in some more ideas/suggestions/observations.
    I understand that though, but please come to mind that since the game isn't released yet, you cannot be sure about how hard it really is and if you need certain professions to clear it, because that wouldn't make sense with their words; bring the player, not the profession. That's why I said that, not saying anyone here is wrong, I just think otherwise

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  4. #44
    Threads should be like DEs no such thing as OT xD

    Yeah...I definitely understand what your saying creepjack...harder explorer encounters could require very specific tactics...and there's always the chance that certain profs could be more viable in a specific situation...and so ppl will use that, or be forced to change to that. Like talent trees in wow for example. (i know GW2 is being designed away from this...just an example)

    I personally think Anet is doing everything they can to avoid this situation though...from what they've said. I also think this balancing is one of the main things that they're trying to get right...and so while we're still waiting.

    I live in hope that they're balancing will be so good that it really will be viable for every prof to use their various damage, cc, support abilities in any situation...thereby making any combination of profs viable

  5. #45
    wtf people?!!! you guys need to stop thinking that this game can be played the way ever other MMO to date has been played, where your spec does the work for you. YOU as a player will have to learn to adapt IN THE MOMENT with WHATEVER BUILD you have. the sooner you guys realize that the sooner we can stop with these silly discussions. i will re-iterate; BRING THE PLAYER, NOT THE PROFESSION/BUILD!!!!!
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    ; BRING THE PLAYER, NOT THE PROFESSION/BUILD!!!!!
    Well yh...that's fine in theory...we're discussing if it's viable I personally think it is I hope balancing can be done well enough that it is
    Healthy discussion is good
    I have a strong faith that Anet will deliver on it...but it's perfectly fine to question how it can be implemented...

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    wtf people?!!! you guys need to stop thinking that this game can be played the way ever other MMO to date has been played, where your spec does the work for you. YOU as a player will have to learn to adapt IN THE MOMENT with WHATEVER BUILD you have. the sooner you guys realize that the sooner we can stop with these silly discussions. i will re-iterate; BRING THE PLAYER, NOT THE PROFESSION/BUILD!!!!!
    Oh come on. I'm on your side :/.

    Thing is I'm also realistic. Just read through my posts, I've never said anything like "strict roles" or that class can't change "on the fly". I also do believe that "Bring the player no the class" will have real weight in GW2. But still, while every combo will be able to beat any encounter, things will always be very easy for combination A and much harder for combination B. That is all.

    I'm also very against of "strange" restrictions put on some classes and I love to break/beat games in more than just standard way. Good proof of that would be me tanking as a feral druid in early vanilla WoW (99% of druids were resto ;P). Back then people considered feral as the worse spec possible, although it was based only on beta stigma and was actually very functional. For being specced fully feral I was getting a lot of heat and bashing, but my conviction and math was strong ;] so I didn't give up and I've actually made in to raiding guild and had the honour to MT Ragnaros as first feral on the server. It was server's 3rd kill so gasping wave was spreading quite fast. Fun times.

    So yeah, I'm not here to put some restrictions on classes, or to try define someone's playstyle by throwing out some percentages. I've just merely made an observation.

  8. #48
    Stood in the Fire Fernling306's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    Don't be, you can do it, although it might just be a bit harder than normal, that because there are certain combinations which work better than others, this always was the case and this goes for any MMO.
    Hmm, that is interesting. I thought this was one of the main things Anet wanted to avoid. I thought they were putting a ton of effort into making sure that every class/weapon is JUST as viable as any other in any group comp.

  9. #49
    i have played some under-powered builds before and dominated with a build that in "theory" was crappy and should not have worked. i'm that guy who tanked as a mage or out dpsed most of the raid as a tank, just because some people feel they cannot do it doesn't mean that other people have not been doing it for years and that is in games where balancing was awful at best.

    but the mentality where the train of thought the OP has is what's the most disturbing. everyone is always looking for that magic bullet, that one build or one spec that they think will make it all come together without realizing that you being a better player with your build is more important because you can adapt better to any given circumstance. builds do not play for you in GW2, you have to do the work, especially when you only have 15~25 skill available to you in combat. the shift that is most important is not the perfect build to bring or whatever, but to be perfect at whatever build you bring; emphasis in more on the player wielding the skills than on the skills themselves.
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Fernling306 View Post
    Hmm, that is interesting. I thought this was one of the main things Anet wanted to avoid. I thought they were putting a ton of effort into making sure that every class/weapon is JUST as viable as any other in any group comp.
    Then we need to define viable.

    If by viable you mean that every class combination can beat any encounter - then yes, every class is viable.

    Will every combination experience same difficulty? We will have to see. In my opinion though, different compositions will experience different difficulties.

  11. #51
    @Creepjeck

    how can you say this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    I'm also very against of "strange" restrictions put on some classes and I love to break/beat games in more than just standard way. Good proof of that would be me tanking as a feral druid in early vanilla WoW (99% of druids were resto ;P). Back then people considered feral as the worse spec possible, although it was based only on beta stigma and was actually very functional. For being specced fully feral I was getting a lot of heat and bashing, but my conviction and math was strong ;] so I didn't give up and I've actually made in to raiding guild and had the honour to MT Ragnaros as first feral on the server. It was server's 3rd kill so gasping wave was spreading quite fast. Fun times.
    and turn right around and say this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    Thing is I'm also realistic. Just read through my posts, I've never said anything like "strict roles" or that class can't change "on the fly". I also do believe that "Bring the player no the class" will have real weight in GW2. But still, while every combo will be able to beat any encounter, things will always be very easy for combination A and much harder for combination B. That is all.
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  12. #52
    Stood in the Fire Fernling306's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    Then we need to define viable.

    If by viable you mean that every class combination can beat any encounter - then yes, every class is viable.

    Will every combination experience same difficulty? We will have to see. In my opinion though, different compositions will experience different difficulties.
    Viable was probably the wrong word. I mean just as balanced.. 100% the same, not any harder or easier.
    I thought it was being created that you could do anything in the game with a certain weapon set just as easily/harder than every other weapon set. Thought this was the balance thing they always talk about, also the "bring the player, not the class" that I see above.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    Will every combination experience same difficulty? We will have to see. In my opinion though, different compositions will experience different difficulties.
    you read the fan day experiences right? where there were many different group comps that all started the run at the same time? you know they all finished at the same time too, right? so what conclusion can we objectively draw from that? ......exactly!
    Cherish the quiet...before my STORM!!!

    Guild Wars 2: Odeezee (Necromancer) || TERA: Odeezee (Archer-Ret) || SWTOR: Odeezee (Sith Inquisitor-Ret/Jedi Sage-Ret) || GW: Odeezee Fosho (Elementalist-Ret)
    Aion: Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret), ODZ (Spirit Master-Ret) || War
    : Odeezee (Sorcerer-Ret) || AoC: Odeezee (Demonologist-Ret) || WoW: Odeezee (Druid-Ret), Thaone (Mage-Ret)

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    @Creepjeck

    how can you say this:
    and turn right around and say this:
    Uhm.. both paragraphs don't exclude themselves? In first I'm stating that I don't like to behave like lemming following general opinion and in the second I conclude three things:
    - every class can change on the fly
    - there will be no strict roles
    - there will be always better or worse class combination, ALL WILL BE ABLE TO KILL THE BOSS, but one will have it easier and the other one will have to break some extra sweat

    Clear?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    i have played some under-powered builds before and dominated with a build that in "theory" was crappy and should not have worked. i'm that guy who tanked as a mage or out dpsed most of the raid as a tank, just because some people feel they cannot do it doesn't mean that other people have not been doing it for years and that is in games where balancing was awful at best.

    but the mentality where the train of thought the OP has is what's the most disturbing. everyone is always looking for that magic bullet, that one build or one spec that they think will make it all come together without realizing that you being a better player with your build is more important because you can adapt better to any given circumstance. builds do not play for you in GW2, you have to do the work, especially when you only have 15~25 skill available to you in combat. the shift that is most important is not the perfect build to bring or whatever, but to be perfect at whatever build you bring; emphasis in more on the player wielding the skills than on the skills themselves.
    No1s disagreeing with you What you say is exactly what Anet intend. OP was just saying they doubt whether the community are ready for such a "radical paradigm shift."
    And I don't think there's any "side" in what we're discussing...we're just asking how viable is what Anet are planning.

    Anyway...the right path between breaking the old mentality of builds and Anet's idea of more fluid playstyle will only ultimately be decided when the game's here. I personally think they'll deliver, more or less,...because they seem damn passionate about it.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Odeezee View Post
    you read the fan day experiences right? where there were many different group comps that all started the run at the same time? you know they all finished at the same time too, right? so what conclusion can we objectively draw from that? ......exactly!
    Christ man.. seriously?

    Ugh... there are so many unknown factors included in this that making this kind of conclusions is not a very good idea. Anyway, the most funny thing is that we both want the same thing. We really do.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Fernling306 View Post
    Viable was probably the wrong word. I mean just as balanced.. 100% the same, not any harder or easier.
    I thought it was being created that you could do anything in the game with a certain weapon set just as easily/harder than every other weapon set. Thought this was the balance thing they always talk about, also the "bring the player, not the class" that I see above.
    having every weapon being different and also the exact same difficulty is kind of imposable (imo at least) .

    I like to think of GW2 will be similar to Bastion every weapon combo was viable in that game, for example the game can be completed with War Machete/Cael Hammer or Army Carbine/War Machete. the former was harder for me to fight fast ranged enemy while the latter I had more problems with heavily armored foes.
    I haven't enjoyed myself this much since the sacking of Coruscant!
    -Malgus playing the Mesmer

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by SPeedy26 View Post
    having every weapon being different and also the exact same difficulty is kind of imposable.

    I like to think of GW2 will be similar to Bastion every weapon combo was viable in that game, for example the game can be completed with War Machete/Cael Hammer or Army Carbine/War Machete. the former was harder for me to fight fast ranged enemy while the latter I had more problems with heavily armored foes.
    This! Since I have at least one person to see this, I can die happy ;p. My job here is done, one convert at a time is enough ;], need to get back to work.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    This! Since I have at least one person to see this, I can die happy ;p. My job here is done, one convert at a time is enough ;], need to get back to work.
    convert?
    good sir/madam I'll have you know this was my thought the whole time :P
    no one converts meh :P
    glad to finally clear up this misunderstanding
    Last edited by SPeedy26; 2012-01-18 at 10:24 AM.
    I haven't enjoyed myself this much since the sacking of Coruscant!
    -Malgus playing the Mesmer

  20. #60
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fernling306 View Post
    Hmm, that is interesting. I thought this was one of the main things Anet wanted to avoid. I thought they were putting a ton of effort into making sure that every class/weapon is JUST as viable as any other in any group comp.
    So if I say some classes are better in support than others, some classes are better in controlling than others it would sound strange in your ears?

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    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

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