new paradigm, old habits

[Glytch]

so ive been thinking, even with the whole "getting rid of the holy trinity" theres still not going to be total freedom when it comes to playing what you want. lets be honest 5 thieves with dagger/dagger pistol/pistol isnt going to work for most dungeons on explorable so my question is how do you handle that

i mean the game isnt as rigid that you'll be able to spam LF support Ascalon crypts PST but i find it hard to believe that you'll be able to grab 5 people and be able to convince someone to change from their precious build into something that meshes well with the group. how do you even decide who has to? players are so used to running the same spec over and over and over (even in GW1 people ran the same generic build even when specialty builds were superior) that convincing many people to change their setup, even temporarily, will be an awkward social situation

EDIT: since people dont seem to understand this post im worried about the players of the game, not the game mechanics itself

[Rahzael]

If you're rolling in with 4 other people who(between the 4 of them) absolutely refuse to change their playstyle a bit to accommodate the group's needs, you're probably rolling with the wrong people and I'd be willing to bet you can easily find a new, better group.

A /roll should be able to handle most situations like that, with reasonable players.

[omlech]

If you want to succeed you're going to adapt on the fly or take a dirt nap instead. If you try to stick to a single build and weapon set without any communication and refuse to adapt, you're not going to get very far. At least that's what I gather based on the dungeon impressions from fanday.

[Orist]

I could swear I remember some Panel that the GW2 devs did and said that 5 warriors would be able to complete and do explorable modes if they were good. They specifically mentioned warriors but the tone of the response implied that it would be that way for all classes.

Since all classes will have some form of cooldowns, self healing, dodging attacks, etc. Not to mention, the many different weapons and ways to customize, even within the same class. That 5 rogues would indeed be doable, and that as long as you are coordinated you should be able to do them. As far as grabbing people to do dungeons with, I was under the impression that was what the story mode was for. Grab peeps in the zone to do the story and do the hard and explorable stuff for the Elite, with guildies or with friends.

[Glytch]

If you want to succeed you're going to adapt on the fly or take a dirt nap instead. If you try to stick to a single build and weapon set without any communication and refuse to adapt, you're not going to get very far. At least that's what I gather based on the dungeon impressions from fanday.

but what if the problem arises 30 minutes into the dungeon?

its not so much that im worried about the issue in my play, but the overall presence in the community

---------- Post added 2012-01-17 at 10:11 PM ----------

I could swear I remember some Panel that the GW2 devs did and said that 5 warriors would be able to complete and do explorable modes if they were good. They specifically mentioned warriors but the tone of the response implied that it would be that way for all classes.

5 warriors maybe, but what about 5 axe/axe/greatsword warriors?

[omlech]

but what if the problem arises 30 minutes into the dungeon?

Carrying all of your different weapons with you solves this problem, swap out weapons out of combat as needed and switch up your heal/utility/elite skills as needed as well.

[Orist]

As far as 5 axe warriors, heh. Well...I think it might be a bit early to really say. I think the ideal is that 5 axe warriors who heal when they need to, move and avoid stuff when they need to, should still be able to complete it. Without really evaluating the dungeons explorable modes I don't think we can definitively say either way yet. But I am sure their intention is that you and your 4 other dagger rogues can do the Explorable modes if you are skilled enough.

[StationaryHawk]

I'm having trouble understanding what your concern is. That people won't want to switch from a single weapon, instead of making use of all of their weapons? Or that people won't want to change their traits/selectable skills to better fit in with the rest of the group?

Because I'm not sure why any player would want to limit themselves in either of those categories.

[Glytch]

I'm having trouble understanding what your concern is. That people won't want to switch from a single weapon, instead of making use of all of their weapons? Or that people won't want to change their traits/selectable skills to better fit in with the rest of the group?

Because I'm not sure why any player would want to limit themselves in either of those categories.

that part, and i would answer your second part with becuase people are so used to playing with a single setup with no changes that they wont use the weapon swapping mechanic to it's fullest

[Kouki]

so ive been thinking, even with the whole "getting rid of the holy trinity" theres still not going to be total freedom when it comes to playing what you want. lets be honest 5 thieves with dagger/dagger pistol/pistol isnt going to work for most dungeons on explorable so my question is how do you handle that

i mean the game isnt as rigid that you'll be able to spam LF support Ascalon crypts PST but i find it hard to believe that you'll be able to grab 5 people and be able to convince someone to change from their precious build into something that meshes well with the group. how do you even decide who has to? players are so used to running the same spec over and over and over (even in GW1 people ran the same generic build even when specialty builds were superior) that convincing many people to change their setup, even temporarily, will be an awkward social situation

This is how it works.

5 ppl Dungeons.

a pull of less than 5 mobs you all take 1.

A pull of more you use control skills and then each take 1 mob.

[Fencers]

lets be honest 5 thieves with dagger/dagger pistol/pistol isnt going to work for most dungeons on explorable so my question is how do you handle that

Why? Or more importantly, what leads you to believe this?

[StationaryHawk]

that part, and i would answer your second part with becuase people are so used to playing with a single setup with no changes that they wont use the weapon swapping mechanic to it's fullest

That may be the case at the beginning, but once people get into the feel of things in GW2 I'm sure this issue won't arise nearly as much as you'd think. Other solutions consist of not grouping with four other people who use identical builds as you, swapping yourself so that you're different at the very least, or avoiding the people who can't be bothered to learn how a game works.

That is assuming, however, that you can't do a dungeon with five people of the same profession and build. As far as we know it's completely possible.

[omlech]

That may be the case at the beginning, but once people get into the feel of things in GW2 I'm sure this issue won't arise nearly as much as you'd think. Other solutions consist of not grouping with four other people who use identical builds as you, swapping yourself so that you're different at the very least, or avoiding the people who can't be bothered to learn how a game works.

That is assuming, however, that you can't do a dungeon with five people of the same profession and build. As far as we know it's completely possible.

I'd say it's perfectly possible to do so in Story mode, Explorable mode is another matter entirely.

[Glytch]

maybe my faith in humanity is just shot, sorry i brought the issue up

[Deleted]

From what i've understood, you are partly right. If you have 5 people (no matter which profession) who all have decided that they will focus exclusivly on dealing damage - you will not get far. The game is not "play any way you want and win".

The game is designed around everyone being able to do some damage, some support, some control. Support and control is still needed, but you don't necessarily need any one person dedicated to the role. If one person brings less control to the group, then someone else will have to bring more.
You can go with any profession, and be fine. But your different characters still have to complement eachother, but it's not set in any such strict way. Everyone's a true hybrid, doing several things at once.

[Squirrelbanes]

This seems to assume that there are specs...I guess once ppl get out of that mentality and learn how to play in a more fluid style with their skills...this won't be an issue..
As people have said Anet said any group should be able to clear 5 man content.

[Edge-]

If I'm understanding you correctly...

You're concerned if a group gets formed where everyone has the exact same weapon/utility setup (or extremely similar) and refuses to provide any kind of group utility or support. Correct?

[Glytch]

If I'm understanding you correctly...

You're concerned if a group gets formed where everyone has the exact same weapon/utility setup (or extremely similar) and refuses to provide any kind of group utility or support. Correct?

those are merely examples

im concerned that MMO players are so used to being pigeon holed into doing only one thing all the time they will not use things like weapon swapping to it full potential

in addition people will be reluctant to switch away from "their build" to accommodate the needs of the group and the game isnt rigid enough to screen those players out ith "lf support" chat spams since the game doesnt have full time roles like that

[Squirrelbanes]

Huumm...well, the first dungeon is lvl 35...that gives a long time for people to learn And they'll have to.
I'm confident the there will be things from profession trainers and DEs in general that teach people the importance of not being rigid

[omlech]

those are merely examples

im concerned that MMO players are so used to being pigeon holed into doing only one thing all the time they will not use things like weapon swapping to it full potential

in addition people will be reluctant to switch away from "their build" to accommodate the needs of the group and the game isnt rigid enough to screen those players out ith "lf support" chat spams since the game doesnt have full time roles like that

I think it's up to the player to change how they play in order to succeed. People will need to get out of the one build or one gear fits all mindset, they'll need to get out of the stand still and play whack-a-mole mindset, out of the holy trinity mindset, out of the solo lone-wolf mindset, etc. If they can't do these things then they will fail and it will be an extremely tough ride for them.