Turning off the "5% buff" is not an option...

[ralphie]

Really? People actually care about being 150, 250, etc?

[hiromitsu]

and yet its still optional you can choose between a higher world rank no one cares about or killing something without the nerf which no one cares about.

I agree. What is the point in turning it off. You are making it harder on yourselves. If you do not receive any achievement or something like that to signify that you killed the bosses without the buff, not using the buff would be stupid imho.

[Kingoomieiii]

A), Buff can be disabled,
B), Buff will appear in WoL parses, so you can see who did and who didn't do so,
C), Complaints about this buff 'destroying' ANYTHING are as ridiculous as they were two years ago.

[Slavemaker]

I personally see no point in turning it off... You'll clear content, you'll get your gear, you will get to see the content even in the harder difficulties and that is it, who cares what other people say?

Don't let other peoples words hurt you, they're just words.

[Deleted]

Surely, If you are really that awesome at the game, competing in server firsts and races etc and you havnt downed it by now when others have...that must tell you something? Like your best isnt good enough or you would have beaten it all by now?

Its like a 100meter sprint, you have your winners, your 2nd and 3rd placers, those inbetween and that guy at the back moaning that they could have won it if only they had more time! The people moaning about this 5% buff...are those people at the back, you had your chance, the race is over come the 31st, you couldnt do it. End of story really.

Im sorry to be harsh, but you talk of how this is a race etc, well all races have cutoffs...and this is it.

[nehunter]

Way to load your argument with your "not a real raider" garbage.

Real raiders will shut off the buff keep killing things (and the douchey ones will discredit anyone who kills bosses WITH the buff)

Sorry but we've seen this movie before, not even Paragon turned it off for progress. You will not turn it off. Your group will not accept another wipe because of stupid people when there's an easier way and you don't lose anything.

Besides, there is no way to easily prove it was with or without the buff, the achievement mention nothing of it, logs can be hacked.

So only one thing remains, fraps every kill( including the farm... because why rob your guild mates that weren't able to come to the first kill of the experience).

Like the OP said, turning off the buff is not optional, you can't be this naive.

[klaps_05]

If no one cares, why does wowprogress track guilds after top 100? Why do people still update it?

Server firsts matter.. just because you don't care, doesn't mean others who plays to raid doesn't...

courtesy and recruitment options, nothing more. after the first page on wowp is done any discussing regarding raiding are irrelevant - whether they are being nerfed or not, whether the loot rules are changed, it does NOT matter.

[Eow]

I seriously dont get what all this fuss is about.
When 5% buff gets implemented few things will happen.
1st. Anyone killing stuff after the date the buff went in either they turned off the buff or not will not get credit to kill it the hard, macho, REAL raider way (all subjective point of view ofc).
2nd. On date the buff gets implemented the breakout happens. Ppl that killed stuff without buffs and ppl that came close. Ppl that came close are in same basket. Wiping on madness at 1% and wiping on madness at 99% = same deal. You came close. You are worst then guys that killed it without the buff. Get over yourselfs, you are not as good, you are close to good. The race after that date will continue but with 5% buff engaged. Yes those 1% guys will all get a kill on same day, others might tag along in few days. All in all. The top list stays the same. But if your sharing spot on 200th place with 50 other guilds, who the hell cares???

Stop looking at yourself as elitist, be a man and take responsibility, take your pride, your honor and either kill stuff with the buff or not. But dont come here and complain and shovel the responsibility on others.

Like the OP said, turning off the buff is not optional, you can't be this naive.

Well ofc its not an option. Blizz implemented it cause there were crys for ppl not having an option. Now you have an illusion of it and everything is ok. Noone will ever turn it off. Human beings are programmed to take the easy way (in general, sport is sometimes different). And besides why would anyone want to turn it off? Its apparent that your not as good to ever kill that boss (well maybe the 1% guys can get a lucky proc). So why do ppl whine so much about it. If you killed it hats down. If not well... obviously you need help. Now the outcry is so huge because ppl dont like to be told they are not as good as those that killed it already. Some of us know that. Other, usually younger are outrage to even suggest that they are not good enough to kill the boss without help.
Go figure :S

[Deleted]

If tonight, they patched the game to buff your class by 5%, would you take it?

How about if they buffed all classes?

Face it, 5% isn't much. If that was the difference between you progressing and not then you're going to progress. If it was more than that, then you'll be 5% closer. If you killed it already, you can look down on all the other baddies and scrubs in guilds who will get to 6/8H just before MoP hits.

There's no race now. No advantage to collecting ilvl 416 weapons for everyone in the guild. Gear resets in MoP. It matters not a jot. You still play better. You'll still beat them in MoP to whatever heroic boss they have then. You'll no doubt still complain when that gets nerfed as well.

5% less hp and damage is pretty much how you look at it, as certain bosses got tight enrages

[Kenai]

I hope its not against forum rules but i cannot rewrite my opinion on why turning off the buff is not a real option, as many other "options" that blizzard offered in this expansion are not real options.
Coming from official blizzard forums http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...7240?page=2#34

You chose to ignore that in teams of people the bet is to compromise different needs that people have in order to be in good terms with them.
That is more of a case for more casual guilds like mine.
In such a guild you will find people that want to raid or don't want to raid, or want to raid whenever.
You will find people that want to improve the guild relative rank combared to a previous tier in the server, people that are in for the challenge and the fun it offers and ofc people that are in it mostly for the loot.
In this diversity, if there is no power struggle, people tent to have fun, finding things to do with others.

This button is the "looking for troubles and conflicts" button.

You push it, those that are actively in for progress and for loot are greatly disatisfied.
Those that are in for the challenge are pleased.

You don't push it, those that are in for the challenge are disatisfied but not to the same degree.
You see they re comforted by the fact that "everybody else does it with the buff".

In a casual guild you want harmony above all. But that harmony is preserved by not pushing the button as i explained above.

Now lets go to the hardcore guilds.

Those not able to finish tier are raging when a nerf or a buff like this is announced. The reason is that they wont manage to do it the hard way.
But in those guilds diversity is smaller. People are in, mainly for pure progress. So all will push the button though most will hate the company for implementing the buff just before they manage their final kill (or few final kills).

That is why turning the buff off is a fake choice offered to blow smoke and take people away from the real issues that have to do with the reason of the decision was taken.

And the reason was to cater to the more occasional part of their playerbase, taking for granded that loyal customer that is not pleased with this policy will not stop playing the game.

This is all irrelevant. ALL of it.

I am not making fun of you when I say that I do not think English is your first language because I am having a lot of diffculty understanding some of what you are saying, but I will comment on what I can.

"Looking for troubles and conflicts button"= No, absolutely not. It is not Blizzard's problem that you are incapable of dealing with group decisions on whether or not you want to use the buff. Be mature about it or suffer the consequences, just like everywhere else in life (ideally anyway). You are basically saying with the "this button is easier to deal with for casuals" in this sentence is that "casuals are more mature/capable of coming to an understanding on these types of debates without breaking down as a guild or throwing a fit", over a game no less. I do not agree that hardcore guild=less mature, or more mature either for that matter.

"fake choice offered to blow smoke" = no, absolutely not. "all will push the button though most will hate the company for implementing the buff just before they manage their final kill" = all your descision to push it or not.

I know it's hard to believe, but this is not YOUR personal game to decide how these types of things are implimented and why. But regardless, it IS an option available to you IF you choose to take it. Anything else that might be restricting that button push is a completely arbituary situation placed upon yourselves BY yourselves, and no one else. If you can't decide as a group to press it, and someone else decides as a group that they can without the flipping out and the drama llamas and whatever else, that is your fault. Don't blame someone else for what you are incapable of doing (downing the content in a timeframe under your self imposed limitations) and then expect Blizzard to wait for you just because. This, more than anything else I have seen in the game, LFR or dumbed downed content or whatever, is a unmerited sense of enititlement.

Basically all of these arguments are patrly.

Whoever= "Oh please wait for us Blizzard, we aren't quite good enough to down it, don't do this"

Blizzard= "Then flip the button and it's the same as now."

Whoever= "NO. It's not at all! We can't actually push that button at all! Even though we can, we can't! Can't you see?!?!"

Blizzard = "...No."

And anyone who calls you out on this "just can't understand", lol. Maybe because you are being completely unreasonable and all of your excuses for being unreasonable are terrible? What more is there to take out from it?

Edit: Lyisander's post is far more reasonable, but I am not sure that is an imherent problem of Blizzard so much as the tracking sites. Do you want to seperate achievements into gold and silver checks or stars or something for not using buffs? Or maybe a certain timeframe for a chertain achievement (gold) and everything after it be silver? How is that different from now with the date being there? Not allowed to get server first using buffs? It seems needlessly complex for what honestly amounts to very little imo, especially since I am sure many people affected by it will disagree with your proposal.

[dd614]

No guilds are going to turn off the buff on a progression boss.

[Spotnick]

It is an option. You just don't want to do it.

I can also raid without my weapon equipped.. why would I do that?

People really fail to understand there is absolutely no reason to turn off the buff.. loot is the same, guilds behind you in ranking won't do it, so you have to keep the buff to remain competitive and be able to recruit best players.

[Emane]

"We had the chance of doing it pre nerf, and if we couldn't kill it pre nerf, the kills wasn't ours from the start." This is how we do it in our guild, and people are happy with that. Hell the old server we were playing on, had that mentality. The time frame is up.

What I would like to see instead, is something that they go out with from the start of the raid. You guys have 1-2 months before we implement this "-/+ *% buff/nerf" to the bosses. So people know, that you have until that date to kill it pre nerf. And if you fail, well better luck next tier.

[Mesovr]

Anyone who plays WoW to raid understands why you simply cannot turn off the 5% buff.

Yesterday a friend from an old server I played on messaged me screaming "WE KILLED YOR'SAHJ US 150!!" or something like that...

See, now to MMO, US 150th is nothing, who cares right? WRONG. US 150 for people who only raid 12-16 hours a week is a very big deal.. and continuing to try to improve that is an even bigger deal.

So, when 5% comes out, if this guild decides not to use it, they will drop to US 200, or US 250 lets say... so in this race (which only ends when the xpac ends), we have NO choice but to use the 5% buff to stay competitive.

Another thing is many servers dont have a server first deathwing yet... this is still up for grabs, and extremely important to many people. This 5% buff will make the difference in who gets it first.. you think the guild who is _ALMOST_ there is going to ignore it because it's the right thing to do?

Anyone who says "just turn off the buff" is ignorant and not a real raider (EDIT: In my opinion :P). Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others. So the next time you say "Just turn the buff off", think to yourself "who am i kidding??" The race is still on, many servers haven't done it yet, and are still pushing their very best to do so...

Its a option. IF YOU want to race for a server first on anything use it. If not and you want a challange whitch is a whole different thing then by all means turn it off. You cant have your cake and eat it to. At least its not like in firelands where all of a sudden they hit everything with a 30% unreversible nerf.

[Dupree]

The Top 36 US servers have had a madness kill.

Anything after that, is still open true.


But please people DO NOT ACT LIKE 5% if gonna propell people from Heroic Morchok to Heroic Madness in a week.


5% if negligble, if you were wiping sub 5% before, then it would be a kill, thats about it.

[Eow]

I can also raid without my weapon equipped.. why would I do that?

People really fail to understand there is absolutely no reason to turn off the buff.. loot is the same, guilds behind you in ranking won't do it, so you have to keep the buff to remain competitive and be able to recruit best players.

Yes. But what is the downside to play with the buff? Only some pride you have that you killed it prenerf? Well if they dont implement the buff there is no prenerf. And there is no dead boss for those that complain they got the buff. Cause the same ppl complaining are obviously ones that need the buf fto kill stuff. Cause guys that already killed it are bathing in the sun and having fun laughing at you guys that cant kill anything (well in reality they dont and they dont care about you "general wow player" at all).

Its really simple. You killed it before the buff. Nice, good for you. You havent killed it before the buff. Nice, try harder, now kill it with the buff and dont be laughed at when you cant kill it with the buff aswell.
Take the buff and be happy you "might" kill the boss. Its not guaranteed. You just might need 50% buff :S

p.s. Its not directed at you (guy i quoted) directly but to the general public that uses this kind of logic.

[Spotnick]

But it's all irrelevant, you don't get a trophy that says "#150". Why does it matter what the people outside of your raid are doing? Make your raid, kill the stuff(with or without the buff) and get out. Making it a competition nation-wide,world-wide,server-wide is so trivial.

It is relevant.. the better your ranking is, the best applicants you will get to your guild. I don't think anyone cares about regional ranking, it's server ranking that matters at some point to try to get the best players you can.

This expansion has been brutal for recruitment due to so many players leaving the game, so this is why you won't turn off the buff because you still want to finish ahead of the others to be able to recruit better players.

[Deleted]

Anyone who plays WoW to raid understands why you simply cannot turn off the 5% buff.

Yesterday a friend from an old server I played on messaged me screaming "WE KILLED YOR'SAHJ US 150!!" or something like that...

See, now to MMO, US 150th is nothing, who cares right? WRONG. US 150 for people who only raid 12-16 hours a week is a very big deal.. and continuing to try to improve that is an even bigger deal.

So, when 5% comes out, if this guild decides not to use it, they will drop to US 200, or US 250 lets say... so in this race (which only ends when the xpac ends), we have NO choice but to use the 5% buff to stay competitive.

Another thing is many servers dont have a server first deathwing yet... this is still up for grabs, and extremely important to many people. This 5% buff will make the difference in who gets it first.. you think the guild who is _ALMOST_ there is going to ignore it because it's the right thing to do?

Anyone who says "just turn off the buff" is ignorant and not a real raider (EDIT: In my opinion :P). Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others. So the next time you say "Just turn the buff off", think to yourself "who am i kidding??" The race is still on, many servers haven't done it yet, and are still pushing their very best to do so...

More like US ~1300 overall. US 150 25man (so region AND raid type specific). Your friends guild is not competitive at larger scale.

If you care about rank use the buff. If you want to be a "real raider" so to speak you don't care about that anyway.

Also if you just cleared H Yor'sahj there is no way that you could kill H spine or madness without the nerfs. If they didn't do the nerfs alot of servers would not see a H DW kill before MoP.
Be happy that Blizz is making the content available to people. The only people that could possibly whine about the nerfs are the top100 guilds and guess what some of them have already stopped raiding since farming gear for MoP (with the obvious gear reset) is pointless.

[Marema]

People care about top 500? Lawl. Good luck in the big race for last place, I'll take advantage of the buff and cruise in lewts until MoP.

[Coldkil]

Anyone who says "just turn off the buff" is ignorant and not a real raider (EDIT: In my opinion :P).

I've read all the post don't worry.

Fact is, that not all care about world rankings. People not caring about rankings so (in YOUR opinion) is not a real raider.

Fortunately, not everyone is like you, otherwise WoW would have been dead by years.

EDIT: the competition in WoW doesn't exist. It's the people like you who created it, there is no prizes foir the ones arriving first, apart some /cheers on the forums. Also, time to edit my sig.