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  1. #1

    Unhappy I feel sad about D3

    Hi guys. Let me start by saying I'm a huge fan of any RPG orientated game. Be it Hack&Slash or pure 1st Person RPG, I'll try it and probably spend a great deal of time on it. I also am one of the guyz that are waiting for D3 for so may years.

    3? years ago, when the D3 site was up with gameplay of some of the classes, I was excited. I didn't like the fact that they only brought Barbarian from D2, but compared to the footage, that was nothing. Now as the years passed and Blizz made some decisions about the game that I found offensive to the customers to say the least, I'm trying to suppress my Nostalgia and not buy D3.

    Let me expand my thoughts and then I really want your opinions on the subject. It will be a LONG post..

    1. Artwork and Innovation: You can argue on how important is for you, the artwork to be something new and exciting but in D3 it's the same artwork Blizz used in every of their games. The minions are again the same minions we killed in D2 with just some additions.

    And just a comparison: Compare deathwing's face with Diablo 3 box front artwork. Spoiler: They look exactly the same..

    Also under this category falls the Demon Hunter's artwork. It's almost the same model that Torchlight used for their Vanquisher. When I first saw her, I was surprised with how similar they looked.

    But to be fair, even if the artwork is nothing new, it fits very well with the graphics they used for the dungeons. The game's UI is smooth which I think is the major advantage of Blizz' games over the others'

    2. Spells/Skills: I hate some spells in the game.. Monk's especially. Too flashy but no essence. Especially the one that jumps around hitting people. I hate it. It seems blizz designed the spells to be flashy but clearly forgot to make them count. In d2 every skill you chose to level counted. For example, the most flashy spell in d2, Frozen Orb, had great potential to kite many enemies, or clear fast larger groups.

    I just feel, they missed the point when they designed the spells.


    3. Music: Same SAME music with d2. Same ambient sounds, same deep sounds, same everything. Just much better quality


    These 3 reasons are something I can live with. They are subject to taste and really I don't mind playing D2 in much better graphics. But there are stuff I just feel they are offensive to us who waited so many years for this game and supported Blizzard throughout.

    IMPORTANT STUFF:

    1. NO Offline Mode: SERIOUSLY? SERIOUSLY? I have a great internet connection and even in a perfect world with 24/7 uptime and no lags this would still hurt me as ****. Blizz obviously in an attempt to deal with Piracy, decides to gimp something important (SINGLE PLAYER) just to save money.
    So what they really remove a feature (which imho is the Reason I would buy d3 since I'm not interested in the online mode) for the whole community, to get rid of those who download the game.
    What really hurts me is the fact that whoever downloads a pirate copy, will not be able to enjoy the online feature since they won't have a valid CD Key. Do you see the problem? They remove the offline option for everyone, just to avoid some ppl to play only offline.

    What can you do about it instead of destroying (because for me it's THE destruction of the game) the game for many gamers:
    a)Sell an ONLY offline edition at half price. People who want to enjoy the game only offline will buy it because it will be cheap and still have all the features they can.
    b) I don't know the technological difficulty of this but they could find a way to bind the updates with the CD key.

    I want also to remind everyone here what the Head of Steam said about Piracy. He said it's a Service Problem and Piracy would perish if you supply better service than them. That's easy.! GIVE CREDITS TO YOUR CUSTOMERS GODDAMMIT. Don't gimp a game for your loyal customers just to avoid finding your game on piratebay.

    Skyrim was a success and sold so many copies even if it was OFFLINE ONLY! 30 euros for the Game of the Year was an amazing price and you felt you had to support them.


    2. Real money Auction House: This may also be objective but that's WRONG in many ways. I'm not going to say it will inflate the d3's economy since we must wait to see that. [Also I must note here though, that due to the only Online mode and the absence of a Ladder reset system,once the game's economy is ruined, you are forced to come to terms with it or abandon the game.]

    The real problem here is that I pay the initial game cost to play the game. Why should someone who has more IRL money have an advantage over me? I for once feel I paid my debt to the game since I bought it and don't want to spend a fortune on it just because a Game designer thought it would be clever to give Real life advantages. If someone doesn't have IRL time to farm and get items, then they shouldn't be granted a free pass just because they have money.. You need to work through the game to reap the rewards.

    Also it is an amazing way to lure more trolls into the game who think they accomplished something because they bought better items via AH.

    Now, it's pretty hard to swallow this but what makes it even harder is that In game Gold can be also sold in the Real money AH. This part annoys the hell out of me. At least keep the gold out so we can actually use the In game Auction House. Prices will increase since the value of the in game gold will drop and this will also hurt the game experience of someone who doesn't want to pay more money.

    3. In game Exclusive staff in Collector's edition: This was the drop that spilled the cup. REALLY? so in order to enjoy an awesome feature I need to pay another 100$? IN WHICH game in order to experience an in game feature you need to buy the collector's edition? Right. the answer is WoW. But wait.. In WoW you only got 1 hardly noticable pet out of 100+ you could obtain. In d3 you get a set of Amazingly looking Wings that can't be obtained otherwise. GOOD move. GOOD move. I hate that. I feel like Blizz insults us. It's just an awful way to make people buy your collector's edition.. And please don't forget that they also put inside a USB with the d2 game in, which is an easy way to raise the cost of the packet without offering anything important.

    4. No Mods. Since they have no Single player it was evident they would prohibit the use of mods. I can't find words.. I really can't. It's not that I use mods in my first walk-through, but they are sure an interesting addition. Also let's not forget how Important is community for a game. (Gothic 3 and the Revamp of Morrowind). And again they gimp the experience of a large group of gamers just to fight piracy..

    5. They have their d3 website up for about 3 years and we still don't get a release date. We are not babies.. And in addition, you can't post on d3 forums if you don't have an active subscription.. Really? How low is that..? Also I don't like the mentality of Blizz about the "exploits".. The whole point of games is to exploit the enemies' weakness.. You should use everything you can to your advantage.. It seems that Blizz just wants no-brain fights and I don't like that.

    Final Words: The game seems to be an upgrade of diablo 2 with some nice gameplay additions but the Blizz attitude towards their customers is so irritating.

    I loved d2. It was the first game I was really into.. It absorbed me as nothing similar before. But as I see d3 coming, the only thing that I see is good graphics and the Nostalgia of the game I loved.. Blizzard destroys my most beloved title and I feel sad about that.

    If someone actually read all this stuff, I'ld love to know your opinion on d3 state. Sorry for the Wall of text and any grammar errors. My English skills are not the best around..

  2. #2
    Fantastic wall of text and ive read it all. I'm still gonna buy the game tough
    oh, and your screen needs to look like NASA ground control because of all the addons you need.

    (mkivtt - on warlock forum)

  3. #3
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    I read it. I disagree with every single point actually, but I did read it, I appreciate that's your opinion but I feel basically totally the opposite about everything. The only thing I'm not sold on is mandatory online play; but I see the reason for it, and the comparison to Skyrim is irrelevant - Skyrim can be hacked, modded, you can powerlevel up whilst standing in one place, you have a console with cheat commands.... online play isn't about piracy, it's about cheating, and how that impacts an online game with an auction house.

    Anyway, the thing I'm most confused about, is point 3. I watched Blizzcon, I didn't see an in-game staff mentioned? Only the aesthetic dyes, wings and a banner - none of them make any difference to combat. So yeah, I'm confused about that unless that's a typo and you meant "stuff", in which case I still don't get the rant because none of the collectors edition stuff is mandatory to get full enjoyment out of the game. Collectors editions are always kinda overpriced, you're paying for a limited number more than the exact content .. but that's not just blizzard... all games with a CE do that
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  4. #4
    The only bit of D3 that irks me is it's been a long time waiting. I honestly would not have been bothered if they just released an updated D2 with some QoL changes. The design of the game was phenomenal. Had it not been for technology advancing so far ahead of D2 it would still be a game I fire up to burn 30mins or an hour on.

    It's kind of a smart move not to stray too far from D2. As the design template was [again] spectacular, and gameplay comes before all other considerations. Any developer of any game need only nail gameplay. The rest is dross that while interesting, is stuff you should not give a damn about.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    and the comparison to Skyrim is irrelevant - Skyrim can be hacked, modded, you can powerlevel up whilst standing in one place, you have a console with cheat commands.... online play isn't about piracy, it's about cheating, and how that impacts an online game with an auction house.
    I didn't compare Skyrim to diablo 3. I just used Skyrim as an example of a game that could be distributed online illegally but still sold so many copies. And I don't honestly see any other reason why BLizz wouldn't implement an offline mode other than to fight piracy
    Obviously in an essentially MMO modding is forbidden. Players should play on the same "platform" and modding doesn't allow it. The lack of an offline mode results to no modding which I think it's important for RPG orientated games. (Gothic 3, Torchlight, Morrowind)

    And yes I should have said stuff instead of staff (I ALWAYS ALWAYS make this mistake). Collector's edition is for those who want to have more around the game. Not in the game. That's why they are getting the Artwork, music and an epic collectible. They are not getting (up to now apparently) any cool feature in game but more about/around the game. Now BLizz introduced the wings which is something I would like A lot on my character but can't have it unless I buy the CE. Also it's an enjoyment to have something that makes me like my character more. I don't know, it just don't feel right what they are doing.


    And yes neat gameplay is what the game needs the most.. But I feel as gamers, we have lowered our standards about the rest of the things..
    Last edited by Radux; 2012-01-21 at 11:25 PM.

  6. #6
    It's not uncommon to get special items to CE buyers.CEs gave out unique in-game items in Rift, TOR, Guild Wars, Warcraft, et cetera.

    What's the big deal? The point is to create an incentive to a CE. Why else would they sell them for 2-3x the price?

    Silly complaint.

  7. #7
    I think I have already read about these complaints 50 times already. Go read the arguments in those thread (here, bnet or D3 fan forum).

    1. No offline mode: this is the age, D3 is not the first not the last. It fights piracy, hacking etc. Especially for D3 the purpose is to have a lot of content server side, it makes hacking harder (not impossible) and piracy too. Don't know what is so hard to understand, Blizzard is not a charity they will protect their sales, your complaint is irrelevant.

    2. RMAH: D3 is a solo and coop game, why do you care that someone use money ? It already happens in every other RPG and diablo 2.

    3. CE: That is the purpose of CE. You throw extra money in for special cosmetics. At least your character don't get an unfair advantage.

    4. Mods: Same as point 1.

    5. Without this restriction, a lot of shit would be posted on those forums, spams, phishing attempts etc. Yeah the game is taking way too long and it irritates me.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! rhorle's Avatar
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    It will be next to impossible to play a pirated version of D3. The reason for that is the same reason why you can't play in a offline mode. The game is set up to do much of the work server side. So in order to play a pirated game you would need a pirated server and the pirated client. Yes private servers can and do exist for some games that require a server.

    There are plenty of reason why they went this route and piracy was just one of them. It makes certain cheats harder to do when the bulk of the stuff is server side rather then client side. Honestly if this game was released 2 years ago this would be a problem. But in today world I don't really see the problem with being connected online in order to play. And yes you can still play single player you just log in to do it.


    The Real Money Auction house doesn't give a person with more money an inherent advantage over you. Since it isn't a cash shop all the items sold will be from things players obtained through the game. If you don't want to or don't have the money to buy an item then you simply earn it. You could even sell items on the RMAH to build up your blizzard wallet with out spending any money of your own. This allows you to buy the same thing that someone is paying money for.

    The collectors edition complain is just silly. Games have been offering in-game things for years for buying a "collectors" edition. A collectors edition without anything special is just a regular edition you pay more money for. I find a diablo skull with a soulstone USB drive pretty important. In fact its one of the prime reasons I bought the CE. It may be unimportant to you. Also I doubt a game that costs them nothing to put onto a USB drive raises the CE price at all. The actual usb drive and holder costs more then the diablo 2 game.

    Diablo has never supported mods, so I don't even get where this complaint is coming from. Yes you could alter game files to "create" them with diablo 2 but that was hacking the game. Yes they may have been fun but is also one of the reasons why they decided not to go with an offline mode. To stop that kinda of "illegitimate" gain that could influence CO-OP play.

    The don't post release dates for this very reason, because people complain about it. And perhaps because they don't have a for sure date yet. I'd prefer to have no release date then to have one that isn't correct anyways. You only need to have a beta invitation, a sc2 game key, or a WoW game key in order to post on the D3 forums. Sure it might suck but they aren't really intended to be a public forum.

    Also there is a big difference between "exploiting your enemies weakness" and exploiting the game. Blizzard has various ways for you to exploit the weakness of your enemies that are within the rules of the game. When playing a game is is your right to do whatever you can within the rules.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by paul232 View Post
    The lack of an offline mode results to no modding which I think it's important for RPG orientated games. (Gothic 3, Torchlight, Morrowind)
    Modding is important only for games that are piece of crap in "vannila" mode.

  10. #10
    Where did they say that there would be no ladder resets? I must have missed that. As far as I know, there's still a hardcore ladder.

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  11. #11
    I read it and can agree with some points, but i'll still buy the game and enjoy it.
    BUT one thing that really bothers me, your point with the real money auction house: it doesn't matter if they implement this or not, in D2 there are/were MANY item shops who sold items for real money. If they wouldn't implement it they'd gimp themself, because let's face it: they can't stop the item shops and with that step they can atleast profit from the people who "have" to buy their items with real money.

  12. #12
    Nothing matters to me, if the game comes out the day before the end of the world i'll be buying it. If the game never comes out i'll be a saaaaad panda
    Quote Originally Posted by Zefie View Post
    Everyone who does not miss Vanilla has no heart. Whoever wishes it back has no brain.

  13. #13
    The only sad thing for me is the amount of time its taking to get a release date, I was hoping for Q1 but thats looking almost impossible with the new changes, I think this could be a chrstmas release, Blizzard seem to be obsessed with making changes to the game, no matter how annoying it is though I have faith in Blizzard and Id rather wait the extra time and get a quality final product than get a Q1 release for the game not to be at its full potential, its annoying as hell but I think it will be worth the wait in the end.

    Going to your points I really dont agree with most of them, while having an offline mode and mods would be cool its obvious why they arnt in the game, there would be hacks galore, insta max level etc, its not worth the risk of a game being ruined by such things.

  14. #14
    1. Artwork and Innovation: I'm happy with what I saw until now.

    2. Spells/Skills: The monk looks a bit like D2's assassin (the melee spec) that pretty much sucked. Don't know why they went with that again.

    3. Music: A+, love their Diablo theme music.

    IMPORTANT STUFF:

    1. No Offline Mode: The success of D2 was its closed ladder. Sure there were some offline players, but that was in 1998. It's been 14 years and everyone has a good internet now. Their goal is to make you play D3 as much as possible and you achieve that with online play with a community. It's really not a problem with piracy; it's simply a better model.

    Skyrim was a success [...]

    Yes. It was. It came out less then 3 months ago and most probably already stopped playing it weekly. Blizzard wants to build around a community because that gives exposure and brings even more players into the loop. They'll of course make some extra $$$ on the auction house, so why limit your company by providing offline play?

    2. Real money Auction House: The best move yet. D2 had insane amounts of item sellers and D3 would be the same eventually without the AH. With a whole community playing the AH, profits will be extremely small for "chinese farmers" (aka more like american bots) and this will provide a generally better economy with normalized prices. Not to mention the fact that this will finance Blizzard and we'll probably get more updates (D2 got 2 major updates after LoD over ~12 years of existence. If D3's AH works well, we might be getting an update a year if not more!).

    The real problem here is that I pay the initial game cost to play the game. Why should someone who has more IRL money have an advantage over me? I for once feel I paid my debt to the game since I bought it and don't want to spend a fortune on it just because a Game designer thought it would be clever to give Real life advantages. If someone doesn't have IRL time to farm and get items, then they shouldn't be granted a free pass just because they have money.. You need to work through the game to reap the rewards.
    People who have money, would have a much bigger advantage without the real money AH. They'd simply go through other non-legal channels like they did in D2. You should probably focus less on what people do with their money and more on what you do with your time. D3 isn't like WOW. If you buy your full gear, you don't get access to higher difficulty raids, you simply skip the only fun part of the diablo series : Going from poor to rich. Rinse and repeat.

    Now, it's pretty hard to swallow this but what makes it even harder is that In game Gold can be also sold in the Real money AH. This part annoys the hell out of me. At least keep the gold out so we can actually use the In game Auction House. Prices will increase since the value of the in game gold will drop and this will also hurt the game experience of someone who doesn't want to pay more money.
    Economy. It will all balance out to a certain price. If the economy wasn't run via the AH with realm money, players would go buy an item from "chinese farmers" for 15$ instead of say 5$ on the AH, and then sell it for much more in-game gold than it would be worth in a free market AH.

    3. In game Exclusive staff in Collector's edition: It's cosmetic only. That's what make the F2P model work so well. Get used to it as it's going to be the future of most MMOs, including WOW. (PS : It's better to have cosmetic changes than gameplay changes for $$$)

    4. No Mods. The single player and open BNET community was extremely small and would probably be even smaller 12 years later when people are experienced with community/online games. They will probably open up their Interface for UI modifications, but I don't see how losing the stupid Open BNET mods is a big problem.

    5. No release date because it's not ready. Is this your first time buying a Blizzard game ? That's pretty normal.

    Final Words: I think you just find stuff to complain about without trying to understand why Blizzard is making changes. I agree with almost everything they do in WOW and D3 on a personal level and when I don't, I understand why they do it on a business level. I also understand that my ideas are not necessarily Blizzard's and this is why I don't go QQ all over the forums when they say they don't balance PvP in their games even if I only live for that. On a personal level, it pissed me off; on a business level, I understand it's not their focus and would probably do the same if I was in their pants and had to make money.

  15. #15
    I think the one sad bit about all this overall is, they've taken their sweet sweet time to deliver to us what looks like a somewhat shinier diablo II. Now, I've not played the beta, so I'm hoping it's just the impatience in me talking nonsense

  16. #16
    WTF who is going to spend 10 mins reading that.....

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Modding is important only for games that are piece of crap in "vannila" mode.
    Mods are fun, and plenty of great games have had mods. Not allowing them in D3 kind of sucks because there are some great D2 mods you can play with that breathe some new life into an old game.

    It doesn't make the game bad (I have really enjoyed the beta) but it's definitely a point against it. After SC2 I knew the game wouldn't have an offline mode, but it kind of should. At least you can set up completely solo games if you prefer to play that way.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Butterland View Post
    4. No Mods. The single player and open BNET community was extremely small and would probably be even smaller 12 years later when people are experienced with community/online games. They will probably open up their Interface for UI modifications, but I don't see how losing the stupid Open BNET mods is a big problem.
    Disregarding the mod community like that is a very stupid thing to do. Especially if you were in charge of designing a pc game. Good Modability extends the lifespan of a game by very significant amounts. The bigger tha fanbase is the more effective is a good modability can be. Sometimes the creativity of the players can create completely new game types in mods. MOBAs (DotA) and Tower Defence both started as mods and are now well growing genres on their own. Also I wonder how many people still know that, but Counter-Strike started as a Half-Life mod too.
    A game like Diablo with modability would allow for "Total Conversion" that completely change the game, set it in a different world with different classes and abilities and possibly new mechanics that would add value to the game. You could see this with Titan Quest, which sadly never really managed to get enough momentum despite being a fun game (and still really good looking). The Mod-Community for this game is stil alive - keeping the game alive even though the publisher has long abandoned it.
    Diablo 3 will be fun even without modability. But Mods would definitely be able to add value to the game nonetheless.

    TL;DR - don't disregard modding capabilities EVER.
    Samin
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Samin View Post
    A game like Diablo with modability would allow for "Total Conversion" that completely change the game, set it in a different world with different classes and abilities and possibly new mechanics that would add value to the game. You could see this with Titan Quest, which sadly never really managed to get enough momentum despite being a fun game (and still really good looking). The Mod-Community for this game is stil alive - keeping the game alive even though the publisher has long abandoned it.
    Diablo 3 will be fun even without modability. But Mods would definitely be able to add value to the game nonetheless.

    TL;DR - don't disregard modding capabilities EVER.
    I actually could have sworn that at one point they said that modding capability was something they'd discussed, and remained a potential thing for Diablo's future, but just wasn't in the scope of initial development at all. After all, Blizzard has seen how wildly successful the modding for Warcraft 3 and Starcraft 2 have been first hand, it's likely something that gets talked about pretty frequently there.

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  20. #20
    The Patient LeClaires's Avatar
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    The only thing I'm disappointed about is the lack of offline play. It has long been a tradition of mine that when we lose power/internet I would pop in D2 on my laptop and play it til the power ran out, race against my brother to see who could get the furthest on a new character before the battery expired. Most of it is nostalgia and I'd be playing online primarily, but I would still love the option for offline =)
    Other then that I've been so incredibly psyched for it to come out since it was announced, and the feeling will not go away!
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