1. #1
    Deleted

    [DEMO] A fellow raider needs help with DPS

    Hello fellow raiders,

    I'm from a casual 25-man raiding guild going thru Dragon Soul Heroics. Yesterday we were wiping on Yor'sahj, best try being 4%. I was going thru the logs from the evening and noticed that both of our warlocks did quite low damage. We don't require our raiders to be the best players in the world nor get to top 200 ranking @ WoL. But if you are doing 40% (15-20k dps less) less damage than the number 200 on that list, something seems wrong to me.

    I, myself, don't know much about warlocks and that's why I'm here to ask any guidance from you. I'm in a position in our guild where others often listen to what I say and I believe I could help our locks and our whole raid to perform better.

    Basically, I'm looking for tips in rotation/priority. Gear is what it is and more will come over time.

    WoL report from our night of raiding:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=55312

    Warlock profiles:
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...sutin/advanced
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...amzer/advanced
    Last edited by mmoc243defdff8; 2012-01-20 at 08:55 AM.

  2. #2
    I don't have the time to do an absolutely full review, and I only looked at attempt number 12 of your attempts. I chose this attempt because it was your second longest attempt and yet it was after a night of progression so I assumed all players would know the fight better. Your first attempt was the longest which is very odd, but I didn't think it would help much due to players still getting into the fight proper.

    First off the armories:

    Lopsutin is very clearly reforged for Demonology, but on attempt 12 he's playing destruction. He's reforged a lot of haste away when that is his primary stat at his gear level for destruction. His gemming and enchanting looks fine though.

    Samzer is playing Demonology and yet has taken most of his reforging away from haste. He should be doing a great deal of it, but not as much as he is. The haste rating threshold to meet for Demonology is 1993 rating. He has reforged 740 haste rating away and is shy of the barrier by only 270. 1993 is a very important threshold so as far as gearing goes he should get there. Gems and enchants look fine.

    For the WoL I really am not qualified to look very closely at the destruction player because I don't have current destruction logs of myself to compare them against. All of the below applies to Samzer playing Demonology on attempt 12:

    1. He cast shadowflame 51 times. He only cast Hand of Gul'dan 20 times. These two numbers should be roughly equal. Although I have to commend him on getting the absolute maximum number of shadowflame casts for a 10:09 attempt. He probably has shadowflame at the very top of his spell priority in his head, when in reality he needs to put his dots up first (more on this later) and then Shadowflame + Hand of Gul'dan.

    2. His dot uptimes are really far from ideal.
    Immolate automatically refreshes when he hits with Hand of Gul'dan, and has a very large window available with which to cast HoG and refresh it. He only got 88.5% uptime.
    His corruption uptime is 64.4%, this is simply an issue of casting it more. It is above shadowflame on the priority list.
    His Bane of Doom uptime is 83.6%. He doesn't have 4piece so it's just a simple issue of refreshing it when it falls every minute. Once he does have 4set you want to soulburn + soulfire each minute and refresh BoD while the 4pc bonus is active.

    3. Cooldown usage. He only used 1 doomguard throughout the fight but he has 2piece which means he could have used two. Doomguard is a very significant damage increase, if done with intellect and mastery procs can easily break 1million damage for that single global cooldown.

    4. Molten Core procs. He gained 14 molten core procs throughout the fight. He should probably switch to the multi-target Demonology spec instead of the single target one he is using. The spec he is on is meant for H ultraxion only pretty much in current content because you just have too much target switching on every other fight. It's also VERY important that he has 100% immolate uptime with his current spec, dropping immolate in that spec is a ridiculous loss in DPS. It's hard for me to say if he can manage his Molten core procs due to the fact that in his current spec, incinerate is the filler spell.

    5. Execution phase. Below 25% his filler spell becomes Soul Fire and he should only cast incinerate when he gets a molten core proc. He only cast 18 soul fires, which is far too little.

    Hope it helps, hopefully you can get a review of Lopsutin as well. If any other Warlocks say I'm wrong about something I've said above then you should probably believe them over me. I'm great at looking at things in theory but I also screw up a lot :P
    You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me!

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethilus View Post
    -snip-
    Thank you a lot. We've been wiping on Yor'sahj before. That 1st attempt was actually a really good one. Seems that Lopsutin has changed specs between tries. On the 1st try he was demo too.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethilus View Post

    5. Execution phase. Below 25% his filler spell becomes Soul Fire and he should only cast incinerate when he gets a molten core proc. He only cast 18 soul fires, which is far too little.
    18 SF could be low because it was a failed attempt. Factoring in that he is still refreshing dots and casting incinerate during mc, during execute he is spending GCDs on other things than ~20 seconds of soul firing. I dunno, just my first thought.

    I think you are spot-on though with your analysis.

  5. #5
    main thing that i see here is both your warlocks are the wrong demo spec. 3/31/7 is for single target because is seriously gimps the multi dotting. they should both be using the standard 0/31/10 here. Not to mention MWC is stronger in the 31 10 because with a slower nuke cast you are less likely to reset meta b4 MWC resets. And using MWC with meta is the only reason to have that trinket. Also im not sure if its just something i do or if other locks do it as well, but after each black phase adds die i actually swap to felhunter because his single target dps strongly surpasses the felguard. Then its just a simple job of summoning a felguard out if you get a black phase. either by soulburn or hardcasting. Shards are not an issue here even without 4pc because you can drain soul the slime you are killing

  6. #6

  7. #7
    I'll stack mastery all day over that 1993

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    I'll stack mastery all day over that 1993
    man, it must depend on your gear level or something because my dps was pretty gimped when I forged away from 1993

  9. #9
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    NONONONO. Don't listen to Aethilus' comment about haste rating. He is wrong. 1993 haste is only meant to be achieved if you're in full 397 >(+)< gear. Did you not see the haste topic? 1578 haste is the cap you're suppose to be going for, assuming your gear is 378>397.

    Go Demo for Yor'Sahj. I've tried both specs and Demo seems to do better. Your priority is Int>HIt(cap)>Haste(1578)>Mastery Dump. Don't worry about crit it's not important.
    Last edited by Derivatives; 2012-01-22 at 12:13 AM.
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  10. #10
    Main problem is spec, people have gotten it into their head that the incinerate demo spec is the superior one, because on tank and spank fights it sims -slightly- ahead of the regular one, the -ONLY- spec you should ever use this spec for, is Ultraxion, if you EVER have to cast immolate a 2nd time, this spec is severely gimped.

    On this fight you really dont shine as a warlock, dots tend to fall off when running to kill adds (spamming fel fire to keep immolate timer up while running and recasting corruption just as you get out of range tends to help, if your dps is good on the blob, you should be just in time to cast a hand of gul'dan and keep the immolate from falling off)

    But it all depends on the raid, and how he is playing, for example on many attempts when i kill him, i KNOW that i dont have to AoE much because mages for example just got up combustion and will gib the adds, now while popping meta and spamming AoE to up you on the meters is tempting when black phase is around, i tend to just pop immolation aura, helping out a bit, but still focusing my dps on the boss, on other attempts i just get unlucky with positioning, getting a horrid blob combo (stacking near boss, but 4-5y from everyone) and the majority of the adds are just ever so slightly out of range.

    Overall i hate this fight as a warlock, the fight itself is fun, but some fundamental warlock mechanics just dont mesh well with it.

    Anyways, long rant, bottom line, wrong spec+poor dot uptime, but considering their gear, they are far from performing horribly, damage and gear do NOT scale in a linear fashion, and i noticed one of the locks is in, what was it, 389 ish gear, and they are both stuck with moonwell chalice and volcano?

    Have them use the correct spec, pay a bit more attention to dot uptime, and just wait for gear, and they should perform just fine.

    **Edit:

    Found one more issue, why are they both using felguards permanently and not switching in their felhunter? Are you specifically struggling with black phase, and need the additional AoE?

    Burning out a felguard for a storm, and sacrificing 2ish shadowbolts while summoning back a felhunter is more than worth it, but permanently using the felguard is quite a bit of a personal dps loss, most tries the guard was doing 7-8k ish dps, with spikes at 8-10k on rare tries (more add phases) A felhunter pulls 9-10k on a BAD try.

    **Re-Edit:

    Forgot you are 25m raiding, felguard is perfectly viable to have out permanently, but not optimal, i would still go with the soulburn for adds, summon back felhunter thing

    One thing you have to consider about the top 200 logs, even the worst ones there (199th for example, 200th is asian and unreadable by me )

    Are "stacked" in the sense of them having a legendary (adds 10% ish damage) Have the shadowbolt volley trinket (15-20% ish damage on this fight) And alot of them, NEVER even switched to the blobs, but just full time nuked boss stationary and used AoE when adds were near.

    Take top logs with a HUGE pinch of salt, and make sure you are making fair comparisons.
    Last edited by Holian; 2012-01-22 at 03:11 AM.

  11. #11
    DoT uptimes are the biggest issue here.

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