frost mage weakness

[Fagnut]

what is their hardcounter ?

[Taiknee]

A healer on your team who can dispel their freeze effects really messes them up

[Virent]

Or just people focusing the mage seeing as most mages use PvE gear = less resilience.

[AutomaticBadger]

A BM hunter usually. They are some of the few who almost gain from not having to be close constantly and with fox can cast and move.

[Blueobelisk]

Or just people focusing the mage seeing as most mages use PvE gear = less resilience.

.......Uhhhhm. ///////Not sure how to respond...

In a 3s setting most teams will get on the Mage...Which is a great thing because it really shuts down his casts, = weak burst (trust me, without a frostbolt deep freeze isn't that great. "ice lance is op" well yeah it is on occasion, but it's not why we get so many complaints.) not to mention you don't get as many (or as easy) Poly's off.

As mentioned, a great dispeller shuts off mage damage but that's just a balance act, it's not enough.

In 1v1 since someone mentioned, a GOOD Hunter, a GREAT Rogue (well maybe just good, Rogues are seriously ridiculous 1v1), or any good Caster that knows how to play against a (frost) mage will win.

[reverendball]

what is their hardcounter ?

dispels is the answer ur looking for

[Yvaelle]

Frost mages have no *real* counter (meaning BM hunters and such dont count since they dont exist at real ratings), dispels have a negative effect for all casters - and probably are the least concern for frost mages of all casters, who also spam the most junk magic debuffs to protect that dispel. Dispels mildly inconvience the mage by mildly lowering their damage which is a minor inconvience to them, but damage isn't what makes mages OP, so lowering it doesn't make them suddenly countered. Dispels are a brick on the rails attempting to derail a freight train - it's possible, but it's not likely, the only counter to mages is nerfbat - and since a mage is wielding the nerfbat (Ghostcrawler) good luck getting him to swing it at himself.

[mea]

.......Uhhhhm. ///////Not sure how to respond...

In a 3s setting most teams will get on the Mage...Which is a great thing because it really shuts down his casts, = weak burst (trust me, without a frostbolt deep freeze isn't that great. "ice lance is op" well yeah it is on occasion, but it's not why we get so many complaints.) not to mention you don't get as many (or as easy) Poly's off.

As mentioned, a great dispeller shuts off mage damage but that's just a balance act, it's not enough.

In 1v1 since someone mentioned, a GOOD Hunter, a GREAT Rogue (well maybe just good, Rogues are seriously ridiculous 1v1), or any good Caster that knows how to play against a (frost) mage will win.

A really, really good mage will still kill a really really good hunter if he's got impact due to not being able to escape the second deep freeze unless it's deterrenced. Pet abilities are in the magic school, and a pet focus silence will allow you a full deep freeze of burst. Another thing is keeping multiple shields up, and using cold snap wisely to allow for a double ice barrier without wasting cooldowns.

[Alvito]

If a mages target isnt frozen or ffo procs aren't up they hit like a wet noodle. Most of the caster classes are hard match up for a frost mage too since they can dot and hide.

[rzy]

One vs One not alot, hunters and affliction locks are good vs them.

3s ALOt counters a mage due to dispels/freedom.

[Swizzle]

Frost mages have no *real* counter...probably are the least concern for frost mages of all casters, who also spam the most junk magic debuffs to protect that dispel.

Trash debuffs such as...?

[Yvaelle]

If a mages target isnt frozen or ffo procs aren't up they hit like a wet noodle. Most of the caster classes are hard match up for a frost mage too since they can dot and hide.

If a mage is letting another caster cast dots, they are a bad mage, if any class is able to kite a mage, they are a bad mage, beyond that dots hit for half damage on mages before shields because of mage armor, and mages have two shields - they can also wipe dots twice per match without suffering dispel penalties (ice block). Seriously though, far more important than what dots can do to a mage - what kind of terrible, terrible mage gets kited by a boomkin or shadowpriest or ele shaman or warlock? Failing all of the above, if the mage is truly losing the match off the opener (because they are bad) using one of the two stuns or the silence that mages have all on much lower cooldowns than what other casters have, and then following with a poly can let the mage run away and evocate or drink to reset the fight. Sorry, but if you have ever seen a mage die 1v1 - that was a bad - possibly terrible - mage.

Edit:

@Swizzle, everything they and their pet cast applies dispellable snare effects in addition to the 0.1 RPS (roots per second, I just wanted to invent that acryonym ^^) they have. All dispellable - dispels aren't cheap - you can't just spam dispel magic all game and expect to have mana (or GCDs) to do the damage you need to threaten a mage through all their shields/armors/stuns/silences.

[Swizzle]

@Swizzle, everything they and their pet cast applies dispellable snare effects in addition to the 0.1 RPS (roots per second, I just wanted to invent that acryonym ^^) they have. All dispellable - dispels aren't cheap - you can't just spam dispel magic all game and expect to have mana (or GCDs) to do the damage you need to threaten a mage through all their shields/armors/stuns/silences.

How are roots and snares "trash" debuffs? You dispel a root, you gut the damage. Frost lost it's trash debuffs and the only trash buff we have left is Slow Fall...so, yeah.

Also, Freeze and Frost Nova don't apply snares, so there's nothing blocking the dispel.

[Yvaelle]

How are roots and snares "trash" debuffs? You dispel a root, you gut the damage. Frost lost it's trash debuffs and the only trash buff we have left is Slow Fall...so, yeah.

Also, Freeze and Frost Nova don't apply snares, so there's nothing blocking the dispel.

Except you don't gut the damage - mages spam ice lance all the time and just hop around - its not like they do <100k damage at the end of the game though - they do that much in 3-5 GCD's of ice lance, so saying that it guts damage is inaccurate - you know what guts damage? Mage armor, by pressing a single button at the start of the match you trivialize my dot damage without any application of skill on your part, and with no significant trade-off because you can still easily control melee without frost armor up.

Frostbolt still does real damage as well - just because it can't blow someone up in a shatter or two doesn't mean frostbolts damage is gutted - its a powerful nuke before shatter is even applied - and you have the tools (stuns/silences/poly) to prevent the very dispels that might risk your shatter combos to begin with.

Edit: I didn't mention trash buffs so thats a strawman, but you do have trash debuffs still - all those snares Are trash debuffs. Consider it this way, if I I have mind blast up, but I also have frostbolt snare up - and I anticipate that you are about to nova and shatter me - I have two options in the next GCD - I can mind blast to put damage on you, or I can dispel the snare - the right option is to dispel the snare. As expected you cast Nova, I now have two options again with this subsequent GCD - I can dispel the nova to prevent the shatter - or I can cast mind blast - the right option is again to dispel the nova since I dispelled the snare last gcd so that I can get the nova this gcd. You cast frostbolt/ice lance. Now take a snapshot of those last 2 GCDs for each of us - I have dealt no damage, but lost 30-40k health and 10k mana (2 dispels), you on the other hand have lost nothing spare that you could have done 50-70k if I hadn't dispelled myself, and since mana is trivial for frost mages the cost of those spells is not significant.

[Jpwojcik]

One vs One not alot, hunters and affliction locks are good vs them.

3s ALOt counters a mage due to dispels/freedom.

Man those paladins are sure a hard counter to mage teams! I mean this damage is completely normal and shouldn't be changed in any way.

[Swizzle]

So...how does Mage Armor not have a drawback if you have to use Frost Armor to train melee? You just explained it yourself: Mage Armor counter is melee, Frost Armor counter is casters.

Also, reducing Ice Lance damage by 200% sounds like a gutting to me, that is, unless your healer can't keep you up while you take 3-6k hits.

[Socialhealer]

the above video, they can pvp but they cant count, "he just got 1 shot" yes if 3-5 hits from the mage and 3-5 hits from the rogue then yes, 4~ + 4~ = 1

guess u cant be good at everything in life.

and yes shamans have the worst survival of any class tbh.

but back to OP, there isnt really much hard counter than trying to pressure the mage so he cant pressure you, "the best form of defense is a good offense"

[Yvaelle]

No, heh - you just explained it yourself - if I want to kill a frost mage with mage armor up, I need a melee class partner. If a melee wants to kill a frost mage with frost armor up - they need a caster partner (even though as I mentioned, frost armor is not necessary to kite melee - so mage armor is always the right armor if a caster is present).

I like how mages interpret a proc as their normal damage - I don't assume that all mind spikes or mind blasts have 3 orbs, that's a bonus - and that bonus is only like 12-20% damage per orb - not 200% on the first proc. If your ice lance deals 3k damage on targets that aren't dispersed - I guess.. level to 85?

[Deleted]

3s A LOt counters a mage due to dispels/freedom.

Please, no trolling.

But seriously, the only thing freedom does is steadily drain a mage's mana. If they dispel that + the blessing every time it's off CD it will eventually hurt them, but unless you play some ridiculous comp that can outlast (like dispel cleave *cough*) and actually capitalize on that marginal mana-loss over time it's just about useless. Literally. Not to mention paladins are, and have always been, the weakest healers versus mages in a tête à tête manner (and mages teams in general).

[Feranor]

None. Ferals were good at keeping them busy (still far away from a hardcounter, though), which was probably one of the reasons why their mobility was gutted.