Made a thread, need support from RIFT players!

[Tarien]

The new changes for character creation (gear previews, determining a "purpose") are amazing. The preset build system is very elaborate and Trion clearly invested alot of time and effort into and it shows. One of the best additions for the games long term longevity that I have seen. Gersh also said they may allow players to submit "preset" builds at a later date.

Yes I just read that. What would be REALLY cool would be the ability to send each other builds, so that if a friend wants to try my PvP role, or is on the upper level on the Matron fight (requires specialist spec) or someone is new to the game and wants a levelling spec, I can just give him a link or something which he clicks and it is stored as a preset.

[russykh]

Do people really find the soul system that complicated? I can under stand the folk that come from WOW what the choiceless trees they have may be a bit Oh Shit! at first but they are hardly Rocket Surgery or Brain Science.

You cant assume that all new players are coming from wow though, and even then I think the trees are less defined than wows. Its not always exactly clear what the trees are for, like for example when I first started playing I read up a bit and read that pyro was supposed to be mainly single target and stormcaller was the mages aoe heavy tree. That wasnt particularly clear when I came to choose a soul though. Plus you get to level 10 in wow and make one choice that pretty much defines your playstyle. You get to that stage in Rift and you've had to make three choices of which trees, which you arestuck with until 13 (unless they've changed that?). In wow you can go "I wanna be a fire mage!" and off you go. In Rift its "I wanna be a fire mage! And a.....what goes with pyromancer? And now I have to pick a third....hmmmm." At least for some people. I know some like the choice and having to read more and think about what they spec. But its like in the Elder Scrolls games (before Skyrim anyway) where you could pick exactly what skills you wanted or pick a template.

Anyway, well done on the thread Tarien. I've said pretty much exactly what you posted there on here before and its good to know they see the issues too. It will be interesting to see how they tackle questing/levelling. In some respects I think Slipmat is right, and they have focused a lot on end game and perhaps thats where it should stay, making the levelling experience quick and as "painless" as possible. But the problem with that is someone trying the game on a trial account isnt going to see much of that, they'll just see the levelling which is fairly bland. People say that "well its no worse than vanilla wow" but it wasnt just about the questing. After level 5-6 you have about 3 areas you can go to carry on. Same after about level 1, and at level 20 there are about 10 different areas at least you could have visited. Even in the expansions, you always felt like you could move around a lot questing. Until cata, which had the best quests, but at the same time is the worst one for going back through because you have no choice really. Compare this to the zones you can visit in Rift at 20 - 3. I dont think people realise just how much a change in scenery can make a difference. I remember on my first toon leaving Silverwood for Gloamwood was almost a celebratory experience because even though I hadnt really been there that long, it felt like I'd been running around the same place for ages.

I'm not sure what the solution to improving questing for them is. I think they need to introduce some better questlines. As you said, more epic, make you feel more powerful. One thing TOR does very well is that you mostly are fighting packs of mobs rather than single mobs, which makes you feel more powerful. They need to make players feel like they are as powerful as ascended are supposed to be.

You put it forward very well though Tarien and its good Trion are listening.

I have also posted on the forums supporting your post as I feel its worth them doing.

[Runintowalls]

You don't find IAs repetitive and predictable? O_o I liked the concept, but the application is not entertaining. The first 6 or so stages are all essentially the same "kill a LOT of X mob" formula followed by either a "defend the wardstone" or mini-boss fight (the latter is rarely a challenge). There's no story attached either. Rift may not have the best questing experience, but IAs are little more than random world mob grinding with a small incentive tacked onto the back. I'm not saying they shouldn't have IAs for all level ranges, but it's not going to be engaging enough to replace other forms of leveling.

maybe its how I do the instant adventures, and the flexibility. I can queue and finish checking my mail or listing that auction, or run around the zone and skip that IA quest I don't want to do. you don't need to participate in every mini-adventure. sure, its nice to give 100% to the group, but I'm there to have fun, as bad as that may sound, often the group doesn't need help and 20 people running to an area, as soon as they get there you're on the next quest.

I like the flexibility and inclusive rewards. occasionally there's a guy trying to kick everyone that isn't in a 5 yard radius of him, and I understand the bosses get buffs dependent on group size, but really its not too much of a challenge if you have a couple geared people, even if you're all new 50's its still not that hard. its fun though. the adventures are shuffled and because you move around the zone, you can do other things like finish up another quest or look for ore, or afk to skip that quest. regular questing is more linear and doesn't move unless you do, so you actually have to do things you may not want to do, and I think that's kinda boring. quest chains are linear, some people may like collecting rocks, some may prefer defending a wardstone, as long as you help I don't have a problem with someone not wanting to collect all the rocks, or run to the rocks and watch someone else collect them before you.

I guess I just prefer the playstyle of instant adventures, and sometimes I feel like being lazy or skipping part of it. I have 25 quests in my quest log, and they're sitting there because I didn't feel like doing them. if they were fun I would finish them, there's like 5 from each zone that I said "nah, skipping this one" would be cool to group with someone when questing and they happen to like doing that type of quest, so I can complete it, and I could complete the 25 quests they said "nah, skipping this one" and it sits in their quest log for 45 levels. because its linear, you can't even abandon it and move on to quests you like. this is why I like instant adventures more.

Well, there's a little more to it than that. Consider that most WoW players already had multiple 80s by the time Cataclysm was released. Few were even doing old world content unless they re-rolled a goblin or worgen. Then consider that most re-rollers were probably veterans who just wanted to get their new character back on par with their main and/or guildies as quickly as possible. Add to this the fact that the leveling process for WoW is so fast, especially if you used BoA items. I did make a couple of new alts with Cataclysm and most of the time I would outlevel a zone before I was even halfway through it.

The sad thing is that 1-60 actually was a lot of fun (the only enjoyable aspect of the whole expansion as far as I'm concerned) and they managed to make every zone worth playing unlike in vanilla where some zones simply weren't worth it. Unfortunately, it just came too late in the game to be appreciated.

well, same is true for 1-60 questing, for me. I enjoyed parts of it, sometimes I wished I could skip it and move on. fast experience with heirlooms was fine, but still it was just line abandoning the quests I didn't like, because at the point where I got the quests in the chain I didn't want to do, I was high enough level to move on to the next zone, so I would, and as with quest abandoning, with zone abandoning, I never got to see past the quests I didn't like. so I'm sure I missed my type of quests when I abandon a chain or zone, that's unfortunate to me, and defeats the purpose of playing the game if I have to skip things I would have enjoyed.

you're right that a lot of players were 80 already, a lot weren't. cataclysm brought a new batch of players that were leveling for the first time. a few months into the expansion, around 4.1 people who were sick of cataclysm quit, for as long as it took me to level alts and see the new zones, I think a lot of the players that quit the game missed those zones. I agree a lot of the re-rollers and people questing low levels were veterans, but not all. there was a statistic of how quickly players hit 85, and I think there have been stats of how many players were leveling 1-85 as well. the numbers didn't match up to account for all veteran players, but that millions of new players joined for cataclysm. some cataclysm quests were kind of fresh and interesting, like the deathwing in badlands, the shredder in azshara, but basically the quests were the same type and feel for me, and if I didn't feel like doing it, I miss the rest of the content. so it was do something I don't want to do now to get to something I wanted (my kind of quests) or do what I want and skip what I don't like, and then I get what I don't want (missing my type of content and quests)

basically I only enjoyed a small part of leveling, and it was usually a means to an end (getting to 85 because thats the only place the new content was)

well that's just my story. I like instant adventures a lot more because I can choose what I want to do, and not forced to do what I don't want to do, still rewarded for my time. plus I think the quests are more fun, though it looks like every other quest, it doesn't feel that way for me. there's a lot more interaction with the environment and the environment responds to you. better quality quests.

---------- Post added 2012-01-21 at 12:55 PM ----------

Do people really find the soul system that complicated? I can under stand the folk that come from WOW what the choiceless trees they have may be a bit Oh Shit! at first but they are hardly Rocket Surgery or Brain Science.

the complicated part was defining the concepts of "soul" "role" "calling" and the spells at the bottom half of the tree you get for point spent in a soul.

so it took me a minute to realize that putting points in a soul gives progressively better spells, up to 51 points.

also, understanding that souls were permanent if you saved points to them. clicking another soul icon into the saved talent menu would "preview" the soul, but still put it in the soul slot, albeit only as a preview. that you could respect from your trainer, and had to remember to activate your soul tree to equip it (thus changing your UI)

these tiny nuances can lead to confusion when dropped on a person all at once, and before they've become familiar with the definitions. for years we were used to wow and having 1 role (dps, heal, tank) now a character can mix and match from each role, plus they have support, and support not being defined in a new player's mind yet) and in cataclysm you were locked into one talent tree after you saved your first point, until 31, then you can spend 10 points elsewhere. this is another unfamiliarity that causes confusion.


not only can players mix and match souls, and learn different spells automatically, then you have to remember to train spells (often the 1st rank, or it doesn't show up) of a spell you didn't manually choose, but you got a vague "you have learned a new ability" message in your chat window (now go find it)

then as you're spending points in your soul tree (soul not even defined in a new player's mind, they know the term talent tree) you get a red error message "you cannot spend more points in this tree until you level up"


I understand what you're saying, its not that hard once you become familiar with the terms and the way the UI works, but I understand the new player confused, and I've been there. I played wow for years, and thankfully rift made the transition easy, but rift offers a lot of depth and complexity, which I appreciate and enjoy.

all this can be overwhelming for a new player, especially if they didn't play wow, and unfamiliar with talent trees, LOL

edit: TL;DR

[roblina]

Good post, bumped it for you.