Is criticism no longer acceptable?

[Grizzly Willy]

Something I've noticed recently is a lot of people responding to criticism with "let's see you do better" or "if you don't like it, don't use it/watch it/play it." What I don't understand is, if we're not allow to critique and complain about about a service or a product, how is it supposed to improve? A lot of times the criticism that I see doesn't come from a position of hatred for a project - rather, they want to see the product improve because they're actually invested in it. Thus, criticism.

The best example I can think of is eating at a high-end restaurant. When you get a meal and it's over-cooked, or the chef made a mistake, you complain and get it taken care of. Improved, if you will. Any reasonable chef would recognize the mistake that they made and use the criticism to fix it, and odds are you aren't as good of a chef as they are. Your complaint is still valid - you still know what the meal should have been like - but odds are you aren't as skill of a cook as the chef is.

So, then, why is it acceptable to respond to a complaint about, say, the bugs in a game, with "let's see you make a game without bugs?" Unless the player is an actual programmer/developer, they probably don't have much coding experience, let alone the amount of experience and skill possessed by game developers. Their complaint is still valid, though, as they know what they think is a good game. They still know what quality is.

Thanks for reading, I know this is a bit ranty, but hopefully you get my point.

[Gestopft]

The simplest way I can put it is that there is a difference between well thought out criticism and whiny QQ. A lot of the criticism that draws such responses is either vague blanket criticism with little substance (omg blizz doesn't even care about x/is so lazy why can't they y), or based entirely on "infallible opinion," and while the opinion is valid, is treated by the poster as "fact."

[Mongoose19]

Because every form of criticism is taken as trolling (even by Blizzard, hello there shitcrawler) because there are only people who are fed up with this game posting here or fanbois. No wonder you can't have nice chat about any aspect of the game.

[Vehemence]

Constructive crticism is always welcome, QQ however, is not.

[Hedleyazg]

It is because everyone is so touchy feely now.

[Eis]

People don't understand how to get their opinion on how things are across in a polite manner anymore.

The personal attacks against people are what leads to the criticism being completely lost and not constructive. It's not being a "fanboi" to say "don't get so angry at Blizzard". Getting angry won't solve it.

But when a company's game does have bugs, they acknowledge it and usually fix it the same as a chef fixes a mistake on a plate. The time frame is the only major thing going on here, as fixing a bug is not as simple as just going "OH OKAY I FIXED IT".

There's a difference between constructive criticism and understanding limitations and whining like a spoiled child. A lot of people cross the line into "spoiled child" and still expect to be treated like their opinion is gold. That's the problem.

[Tierbook]

criticism is not politically correct so... blame the government?

[Maelle]

Most products/restaurants/etc also don't have websites where any flaws or problems perceived or real by the customer can be talked out for years on end in never ending circles, irritating the people who just want to use said forums to look at news, and read opinions other that WTFBBQWOWISDYING- but no matter how irrelevant or OT to a discussion the "wow is dying/I quit brigade" somehow always manages to push their agenda anyway :<

Yes an interesting, NEW opinion is always something to be read and thought about... forum member XYZ writing out a 13 page essay full of the same complaints as the other 800 people this week - not so much.

[Vesci]

Something I've noticed recently is a lot of people responding to criticism with "let's see you do better" or "if you don't like it, don't use it/watch it/play it." What I don't understand is, if we're not allow to critique and complain about about a service or a product

We call those people children or forum moderators.

[smartAXE]

i dont critic people as much as i used to, ill help randoms out if they ask(normally warrior related after a lfd/lfr z.z).
people still take criticism, but most of the time ignorance will show his pretty face

[Sunseeker]

As was posted right off the bat, the difference is basically a constructive criticism vs a QQ.

Saying "BAWWW there are bugs in the game!" Doesn't help anyone. There are ALWAYS bugs in the game, the Devs work hard to keep them to a minimum upon release, and continue to work hard to clean them up with patches.

Saying "I've noticed that when I do X while using Y in place Z, this bug happens that clearly shouldn't be happening." Informs Devs and other places exactly of what's going on, and helps them work to test and eliminate that bug.

To use your reference example, if you were to tell the chef "this steak sucks", the chef would probably ask you: "What is wrong with it?" If you can't answer that question, THAT is the difference between QQ and criticism. I'm not saying you have to know that there was too much or too little A1 in the sauce, but as long as you can formulate an answer such as "it's too dry" or "it's too salty", ect... then they can use that as a reference to improve.

[Raamm]

Honestly People need to be critizied more in general but it has to be legitment not stupid stuff "Your bad" generally isn't a specific critsism however "Your Undergeared" "Your doing your rotation wrong and therefore don't know how to play your class" are all valid. The specific ones however are alot more insulting than simply being bad and people don't want to hear it.

[darkwarrior42]

While there are certainly times when the "criticism" in question is just random whining, I have seen plenty of times where people bring up things they are concerned about and are told "if you don't like it, go do something else." Most recently, I saw a lot of that regarding the upcoming DS nerfs.... I don't want to re-open that discussion here, but a lot of people who explained why they thought the nerfs to both heroic and normal were a poor idea were told to go play another game if they didn't like the nerfs. That's not a useful response... I did see useful responses, but if you don't want to read someone else complaining about that topic, don't read that thread or don't read every single response.

(And of course, there are specific forms of criticism that at least on these forums are explicitly forbidden by the forum rules, which I have always taken as the people who run the forums endorsing and supporting those types of mistakes... but that's another topic entirely.)

[MaximusRex]

OP, I suspect you are mixing up criticism with whining like a 5 year old child in the supermarket whos mom just told him he can't have a candy bar.

Games have bugs, its just a fact, especially PC games where there is a wide range of hardware, Operating Systems, and drivers of many ages. Most complaints I see about bugs in any game are how the developer is incompetent/satan and just release crap to rip you off. Those people pretty much deserve to be told off, they aren't contributing anything to the conversation or toward making the bugs better.

Constructive would be reporting bugs, or working with fellow gamers to try and find fixes or workarounds while the bugs get sorted out.

[Bryntrollian]

We call those people children or forum moderators.

Are these two interchangeable ?

[VXFadhel]

Some people just read/see what they want to, close-minded people see things as perfect. When new things comes, they either take it as perfect or just simply the other way (Dont accept it no matter what!!). For example, you will find people who read the topic title as "is criticism...?" and directly give you an asnwer without reading the rest. Things changes but some just dont want to admit it.
Also I want to point out that some people who criticize things while it sounds like a QQ or whining or so, it is possible that it is because they are fed up with people who can't see behind their nose whom defending things like their life depends on it. You can talk to a wall you know but dont expect results^.^ Just because someone is angry does not make their point(s) invalid. You have to look at the big picture if you want to debate, not just your side or what you want to hear.

[Feel The Power]

We call those people children or forum moderators.

Amen to that, I get almost scared to respond to anything on forums anymore in fear of a ban. I've seen a certain mod from the U.K. make child molestation jokes, as well as other tasteless unprofessional "jokes", but god forbid you call out the childish posters who do the whole "well lets see you do better" type crap. People who say things like this are rather pathetic people who seem to not be able to form many of their own thoughts. It gets rather old and fucking toolish to have EVERYTHING anyone says fall into the catagory of "QQ". Quite a shame to see the superiority complexes people develop because they press some buttons in a game.

[WarpKnight]

As a pally tank in WoW, you can criticise me all you want. However, if you disrespect me while doing so, I'll likely get irate. Constructive is the keyword here.

[Woceip]

Because criticism is he art of reviewing an item, be it a game, a steak, a film, or your niece's ballet recital, and stating what, within reason, could be improved upon with it. It involves tact, and usually a high amount of insight into what actually is involved in that item. People who criticize games on the interwebs rarely know enough to give valuable criticism for the sweeping topics they choose. They know the start, sometimes, which is what they want the situation to look like. But they trivialize what steps it takes to get there.

[Deleted]

Why would you think critique is no longer acceptable? It is and it always has been. But if you go to a place where the fans of something gather and then critique that something, the least intelligent of them might get pretty verbal and defensive. Others might try to ignore it, argue with it or accept it as flaws.