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  1. #21
    with shadow fiend up you only cast mind spike and mb. MS will take every set of orbs. MB being instant it will not get the orbs... Its a DPS loss to wait, or to cancel the aura to get MB the orbs. I've tested both ways and just spamming MS as fast as you can and using MB on CD is higher damage. If you have logs proving that your method works better vs what I am saying, please post them.

  2. #22
    The Patient Phillytwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOfz9t199kI

    It definately works. I was able to pull around 46k in LFR when I had DI. You get some huge burst at the start and SF and AA usually line up quite nicely.
    Dat castbar made my eyes go crossways

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiroth View Post
    with shadow fiend up you only cast mind spike and mb. MS will take every set of orbs. MB being instant it will not get the orbs... Its a DPS loss to wait, or to cancel the aura to get MB the orbs. I've tested both ways and just spamming MS as fast as you can and using MB on CD is higher damage. If you have logs proving that your method works better vs what I am saying, please post them.
    This is your answer:
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    There is a really big discussion going on on h2p about using a different rotation with 4 pc t13


    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1176
    If you tested it and it was less dps you did it wrong.

  4. #24
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Thanks Arlee, you beat me to the punch! ^^

    Edit: Oh just thought of something to mention, if you are mind spiking only during archangel+SF, then you can just macro /cancelaura Mind Melt directly into your Mind Spike because you won't need the instant casts for MS'ing outside of these cooldowns.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-01-24 at 06:58 PM.
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  5. #25
    I would like to see parses rather than I did X amount of damage on a target dummy.

    For example, http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/zul%27jin/vyroxx/ does not do that, and his parses are consistently top 5% of priest or even #1.

    If you look at his ultraxion he is mind blasting on CD the entire fight, where as only 17.3% of the fight if he has 100% dot uptime he should be using the mind spike rotation. Look at the amount of damage from mind spike vs mind blast and the number of cast.

    You also have to take into account you could lose shadow fiend attack orbs waiting for MB to get orbs. The only benefit I could see to casting mf for a tick would be to get arch angel stacks for when you go to redot, and even then you are still probably going to have to channel a full flay.

    Like I said, provide me parses and I'll believe it.
    Last edited by Vampiroth; 2012-01-24 at 07:44 PM.

  6. #26

  7. #27
    You are linking logs of different fights. One of which has a damage buff on it. Link me a log of using mf during the shadow fiend ms rotation, and a link of a log vs just using ms and mb not waiting for mb to get orbs.

    Makes no since for me to even look at logs without one to compare them to....

    Even on heroic vs normal Vyroxx did substantially more damage with the rotation I use. Also only 1 of Kilee's damage peaks were higher than his.
    Last edited by Vampiroth; 2012-01-24 at 07:50 PM.

  8. #28
    If you had read the OP of the thread that has been linked to you 3 times now you would have seen that the method he used was the cancel aura macro to make sure the MB gets the orbs... if you had read further into the thread you would have seen the discussion and examples of why MF/using the cancel aura macro is better than just spamming the MB without the orbs.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillytwo View Post
    Dat castbar made my eyes go crossways
    Yeah, I fixed it now^^. Forgot to set frame strata on GCD to be lower than cast bar.

  10. #30
    Reading something someone suggest vs seeing actual evidence that you obviously cannot provide. Made sense... All I said was I wanted to see logs. Comparing 2 people on different fights with different lengths is just stupid.

    When you get logs of it rather than a THEORY prove it. The shadow priest I provided is the #1 priest on some heroic fights, and top 3 on multiple others, not using cancel aura or using mind flay...

  11. #31
    Ok... you aren't convinced that's fine... I am not bothering with this anymore.

    In the future please refrain from telling other people to ignore people who have made valid points just because you personally don't agree with them. You are demanding proof and everything we give you is not good enough. How about you come back with solid proof that either using the cancel aura macro, or casting MF for the millisecond it takes to get the 3 orb proc on MB is worse dps than spamming MB every time it is up (without the benefit of the orbs) during the ms/mb spam burst phases.

  12. #32
    How is a log of 1 thing proof when you don't provide a log of another to compare it with? That makes absolutely no sense at all. Also why should I be the one taking time out of my day to make parses for people when I'm not the one suggesting you try something.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiroth View Post
    I would like to see parses rather than I did X amount of damage on a target dummy.

    For example, http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/zul%27jin/vyroxx/ does not do that, and his parses are consistently top 5% of priest or even #1.

    If you look at his ultraxion he is mind blasting on CD the entire fight, where as only 17.3% of the fight if he has 100% dot uptime he should be using the mind spike rotation. Look at the amount of damage from mind spike vs mind blast and the number of cast.

    You also have to take into account you could lose shadow fiend attack orbs waiting for MB to get orbs. The only benefit I could see to casting mf for a tick would be to get arch angel stacks for when you go to redot, and even then you are still probably going to have to channel a full flay.

    Like I said, provide me parses and I'll believe it.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e=10526#Vyroxx

    And it is not hard to do top parses when you got DI, Legendary and Cunning. All you have to do is press your buttons and you got a top parse.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiroth View Post
    You are linking logs of different fights. One of which has a damage buff on it. Link me a log of using mf during the shadow fiend ms rotation, and a link of a log vs just using ms and mb not waiting for mb to get orbs.

    Makes no since for me to even look at logs without one to compare them to....

    Even on heroic vs normal Vyroxx did substantially more damage with the rotation I use. Also only 1 of Kilee's damage peaks were higher than his.
    Vyroxx is 10 iLevels above me. If he wasn't doing more damage than me using any rotation at all, something would be seriously wrong. When you are that high of iLevel, you can do anything you want and claim it is the best way because your dps is the best. It doesn't arbitrarily make it so. If I have a rocket launcher versus a rifle, I can claim that firing behind my back without using the sights is the best way to shoot things, and it will look like I'm right.

    In any case, I digresss. In my post on H2P, I've listed 3 casting methods for using the tier 13 4-piece set bonus, and the most simple and straight-forward one (the one you seem to like the most) is listed first. People are free to pick whichever one they like the most. Or mix and match. Or do something completely different. Personally, I've put about 20-30 hours over the past 3 weeks on a dummy trying different rotations. The only rotation that seems intrisically flawed is the #3 one in my post (ie pre-mind spiking before shadow fiend is out). The difference between using a cancel aura, no cancel aura, mind flays or no mind flays, is so small as to be unmeasurable. Also, there's a lot of RNG involved in it. A few lucky crits or procs from the legendary can swing the amount of DPS you co wildly in one direction or another. This leads me to believe that the 4-piece bonus has a tremendous element of luck involved with it, rather than "skill". You can only control so much.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

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  15. #35
    Kilee has DI, Legendary, and Cunning in those parses too. Nice try though.

    Also, his post was stating to use mind flay, when Cancel aura is what you are stating to be best... Please don't tell me to tell someone what not to post if you are referring to something different. casting mf would be a waste of a gcd.

    If you provide logs of it showing the different rotation then people would probably give more credit to the post. Spending 20-30 hours on something and not logging it for people to see doesn't make much sense to me either but hey... whatever.
    Last edited by Vampiroth; 2012-01-24 at 08:18 PM.

  16. #36
    Herald of the Titans Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiroth View Post
    Kilee has DI, Legendary, and Cunning in those parses too. Nice try though.

    Also, his post was stating to use mind flay, when Cancel aura is what you are stating to be best... Please don't tell me to tell someone what not to post if you are referring to something different. casting mf would be a waste of a gcd.

    If you provide logs of it showing the different rotation then people would probably give more credit to the post. Spending 20-30 hours on something and not logging it for people to see doesn't make much sense to me either but hey... whatever.
    Im sorry but you do realize that that Kilee you are talking about is just above you? And where are your logs showing both the good and bad of each and every thing that you have tried, and is it with the same buffs, debuffs and is the fight equaly long?

  17. #37
    Casting MF during the MS/MB spam isn't a waste of GCD. Show me the calculation of it, please.
    I slip a 1 GCD Mind Flay in once I've done 3-4 Mind Spikes, just before a Mind Blast.
    Why? Because it means that as soon as I've casted my last MB I can reapply dots with my Dark Evangelism at 5 stacks.
    You can argue it might be a minimal increase/decrease, but you got no numbers backing that up.

  18. #38
    I admit I didn't actually read your original post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiroth View Post
    with shadow fiend up you only cast mind spike and mb. MS will take every set of orbs. MB being instant it will not get the orbs... Its a DPS loss to wait, or to cancel the aura to get MB the orbs. I've tested both ways and just spamming MS as fast as you can and using MB on CD is higher damage. If you have logs proving that your method works better vs what I am saying, please post them.
    So you are advocating casting Mind Blast without 3 orbs during the rotation? No, this is an incredible loss to dps. That is easy to prove just with simcraft.

    10,000 iterations, with cancel aura: 43,138 dps
    10,000 iterations, without cancel aura: 42,704 dps

    Given that this is very easy to model in simcraft, and a very accurate representation of what you are advocating. At this point you need to explain to me why you think simcraft is wrong.
    "Falling from heaven is not as painful as surviving the impact."

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    HowToPriest - a great priest forum

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiroth View Post
    Kilee has DI, Legendary, and Cunning in those parses too. Nice try though.

    Also, his post was stating to use mind flay, when Cancel aura is what you are stating to be best... Please don't tell me to tell someone what not to post if you are referring to something different. casting mf would be a waste of a gcd.

    If you provide logs of it showing the different rotation then people would probably give more credit to the post. Spending 20-30 hours on something and not logging it for people to see doesn't make much sense to me either but hey... whatever.
    Did you even read the post on how to priest? There are logs on there. There is solid math and theorycrafting and logged evidence supporting that the ms+mb rotation is superior dps with 4pc t13. Even if you only use it as an opener it is easy to get insane burst on opening then just drop into the normal dot rotation for the rest of the fight. How on earth you think you can argue any differently is beyond all reason. Then you have the nerve to demand evidence and when it is provided you dismiss it for the most arbitrary reasons without providing any evidence to the contrary. Just save yourself further embarassment and politely back out of this thread.
    Last edited by Derpyhooves; 2012-01-24 at 08:37 PM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Kilee25 View Post
    I admit I didn't actually read your original post.



    So you are advocating casting Mind Blast without 3 orbs during the rotation? No, this is an incredible loss to dps. That is easy to prove just with simcraft.

    10,000 iterations, with cancel aura: 43,138 dps
    10,000 iterations, without cancel aura: 42,704 dps

    Given that this is very easy to model in simcraft, and a very accurate representation of what you are advocating. At this point you need to explain to me why you think simcraft is wrong.
    You can also explain it with the Mind Melt cancelaura we should be using. If you're not using it, you're spending the GCD after casting MB waiting for nothing. Because it's instant you'll do a 0 orb MB. If you use cancelaura you still wont waste any GCD but you'll get a 3 orb MB.
    This post isn't directly targeted at you, but more of a further explanation of why we use cancelaura for Mind Melt.
    Last edited by Juicebox; 2012-01-24 at 08:40 PM.

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