N Gurth vs N Slicer for Ultraxion

[Berianther]

If you want the tentacles to hit Ultraxion, you have to convince your raid to stand closer to the edge of the platform. It's a pretty huge raid-wide DPS increase if you've got enough melee using the sword, anyways. Standing at the edge of the platform keeps them from bugging out, however.

Yes, I tested that a few times on lfr, and definitely seems to be getter more procs than before. That alone makes it worth using the N Gurth. Now all I have to do is to convince the raid to stand closer to Ultraxion.

[pbad]

Bonkura beat me to it and outlined it all pretty well for you Lumineus. Just so you know even the 410 heroic weapons have less than 2% crit and 2 mastery on them. It's approximately 179 rating for 1 point and they have 340-350 of each secondary stat. Making up some arbitrary and inflated numbers and then picking extreme worst case scenarios for procs does not a good argument make.

[Simca]

I don't why you went through such a roundabout way of calculating the value of Gurth.

Take a BiS normal 397 profile, input it into SimCraft, take your fake stats and edit them into the Slicer. Then take the same profile, use Gurth, and run it again.

Anyone have a BiS normal Ret profile on hand?

[Johnmatrix]

Gurth wasn't nerfed that hard for paladins, I thought. It just got changed from a 'ludicrously ridonculous' proc-rate to 'sane' proc-rate I believe. Norm Gurth should still be better.

My proc was only a little better than my raids arms warriors before nerf, his tentacle even beat me sometimes because of RNG. Blizzard figured that ret had "double" the chance to proc the tentacle, but nerfed it to less than half. Now my tentacle is pathetic compared to arms warriors. Needless to say that ret should have needed that upper hand in the proc instead of arms warrior if Blizzard is really trying to balance dps.

[Firegalus]

Having both normal gurth and normal slicer, and working on Ultraxion Heroic atm, i've run a sim to check which was better for this "patchwork" style fight, the following profiles were used:
http://www.chardev.org/?profile=327150 - slicer profile
http://www.chardev.org/?profile=327147 - gurth profile

Gurth comes out ahead at 42763 dps with slicer at 41768 dps

Sim's were done using simc 430-4

[Simca]

Simc 430-4 was released December 29th, before the hotfix. I'll rerun it in my 430-8 (Jan 17th - it has the gurth changes). Thanks a bunch for the profiles - they're not perfect "normal" but they're very close to an average ilvl of 397.

Settings: 10000 iterations, Low lag, 450 sec length, varying by 20%, Patchwerk style, all Buffs and Debuffs enabled besides Dark Intent and Focus Magic.

Gurth profile: 43487 DPS
Slicer profile: 42029 DPS

(Interestingly, having Gurth increases the stat value for Haste and Crit by a large amount - though they still don't pass Mastery)

[blacki84]

Gurth is the best weapon for a ret until you kill madness hc and get HC Gurth

[Firegalus]

Thanks a bunch for the profiles - they're not perfect "normal" but they're very close to an average ilvl of 397.

Well thats my "Actual" gear and yes its not perfect, but IS the best i can get at this point in time (until my DKP increases substantially)

I'm guessing having the "creche of the final dragon" inflates Gurth value a little too

[pbad]

All this says is the same thing that's already been repeated time and time again, follow the ilvl for choosing your weapons as ret. There may be some unique gear levels where a normal gurth BARELY edges out a heroic weapon and so on but it's generally not worth it. Normal weapons will never beat a normal gurth. I'll say this again as well, SimC never had SoT procing the tentacle in its release code. SoT procing was finally working correctly in one subversion of the code literally the day before blizzard released its hotfix and then the changes were quickly reverted. So all release versions will be modeling gurth pretty accurately for ret but using the most current is always encouraged. In case you're wondering, the BiS profile was simming a little over 51k for about a day when we had gurth procing from SoT.

[Bonkura]

I don't why you went through such a roundabout way of calculating the value of Gurth.

Take a BiS normal 397 profile, input it into SimCraft, take your fake stats and edit them into the Slicer. Then take the same profile, use Gurth, and run it again.

Anyone have a BiS normal Ret profile on hand?

Yes, let's rely on a software which has treated the weapon wrong since it was released on PTR instead of doing a quick 2 min calculation to break down someone's argument.

Seriously, it was just a freaking example to show how off he was with his estimaton of the stats value from a weapon compared to Gurthalak proc.