No raids, end game PvP at level 1, incentive for getting gear at level 80?

[zito]

My understanding was that a new game started every 2 weeks, but that each game lasted the full two weeks, such that a battle was pretty much always going on, and could be joined at any time for any length of time you wish.

From the Mass info thread:

"This is a game mode where 3 servers are pit against each other in a FFA across 4 persistent maps in a place off the world map called The Mists. This is joinable by anyone at any time, 24/7. Each battle lasts 2 weeks and the winner of the 3 servers then gets matched up with 2 other equally matched servers."

Correct me if I'm wrong, someone who has a primary source.

I was reading the wiki, which has a misleading sentence in it.

---------- Post added 2012-01-22 at 09:48 PM ----------

Im talking about the PvP that has servers fighting for control over a 2 week period. Essentially this is GW2 *world* PvP.

Traditional world PvP = entire world is a fight pit fighting against another faction
Guild 2 World PvP = Your entire world vs another entire world vs another entire world.

This is where the confusion happened. So its world PvP vs WvWvW

[Greendog]

Traditional world PvP = entire world is a fight pit fighting against another faction
Guild 2 World PvP = Your entire world vs another entire world vs another entire world.

This is where the confusion happened. So its world PvP vs WvWvW

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Here's a vid too for a refresher.

[Sazasmash]

I am very happy to see this system in place in GW2 myself. I like that if you want to experience any part of the game in GW2 installing it is what is required. There is no need to essentially unlock content by gaining the gear for it.

Awhile ago there was a family tragedy and I had no place for gaming in my life. When coming back to a gear progression style game after my life had finally returned to normal and I just needed some fun I was now locked out of content. It is nice to look forward to a game that is less harsh and excluding than real life can be.

I also look forward to advancement through sidegrading. I don't personally have an issue with it, since there is so much room to build yourself specific sets of gear with stat layouts that work well with certain weapon/skill/trait choices. There is still an ability to customize your character in how they play as well as how they look that I find appealing.

[Deleted]

I for one fully support this system. Nothing worse than being beaten by people you know you outskill, just because they have more time to grind out gear sets than you do.
Also as an altoholic, it means I can be competitive on characters I dont play that much, as well as my main.

Time spent shouldn't be the deciding factor, skill should be.

All hail arenanet.

[Exerionx]

I for one fully support this system. Nothing worse than being beaten by people you know you outskill, just because they have more time to grind out gear sets than you do.
Also as an altoholic, it means I can be competitive on characters I dont play that much, as well as my main.

Time spent shouldn't be the deciding factor, skill should be.

All hail arenanet.

Arena net for president!

[Grable]

I support this system too. After playing tons of MMOs where the whole point is gear grinding at max level I think it's time for a real change.

[worprz]

The reason I quit wow was that if I stopped playing for a little while I would have worse gear than others and get destroyed. I like how I don't have to worry about falling behind because I don't play all the time, this game is going to save me time and money

[Titoselfire]

So I have a question. I realize there is no raiding and whenever you want to pvp, you que and get pushed to level 80 with all the pvp gear unlocked.

So then, as a level 80 what gives me the incentive to farm PvE or PvP gear? I could just hit level 80 and que for PvP and have all the gear available to me.

Am I missing something?

Someone explain please

Raids are unneccesary because there are world events, instead of waiting till your 9 guildies came online, you can just hop in with whoever is near a Dynamic Events and f*ck the boss over with whoever is there, no boss steal, no loot steal, you participate, you get loot. simple as that. WoW just fucked over all brains to think that loot should have an assigning system to get lots of drama.

youre a bit wrong on level 80 pvp. think about in 2 different ways.
on one side, you have your PvE character. you can give him nice looties from the world and everything and enter both the PvE and the PvP world.
on the other hand you have a PvP(only)character. you cant get into the PvE world with it, but all PvP area's are free to go. as it was in Guild Wars 1, you get a gear customization window where you can get an okayish looking gear with the stats you would prefer. the stats are the same as everyone else , PvE or PvP character, doesnt matter. the reason theyve been doing this back than is to make it easier for those who dont care a flying f*ck about PvE to not level new characters just to have the profession(or class for all you WoW nabs). instead, they lock the PvE stuff, but you can compete with everyone else @ level 80 in PvP. think about it like this :

everyone runs a standard build in PvP, to get some competitive PvP out, a group just rolls a complete counter build untill that becomes the standard, etc. etc. etc.
no downtime because your buddy still needs 10 levels or w/e, its just 5 mins rerolling and get going with the action.
this makes it so people basicly play on skill primairly. everyone has acces to the same gear, same weapons, same skills. this takes out the whole grinding aspect. the thing you are playing for , well , Faction points, elite (styl) gear (nothing to do with stats!) & just improving yourself with how you play, not gear yourself out in Ilvl 750 versus 400 people in Ilvl 389 and get all sorts of cryers on forums '' AMG rogue overpowered QQ,FML, /ragequit''
i hope this awnsered your question , sir.

[Grable]

So I have a question. I realize there is no raiding and whenever you want to pvp, you que and get pushed to level 80 with all the pvp gear unlocked.

So then, as a level 80 what gives me the incentive to farm PvE or PvP gear? I could just hit level 80 and que for PvP and have all the gear available to me.

Am I missing something?

Someone explain please

You actually have the option to play for fun and not grind for a change.

[Ynna]

On one side, you have your PvE character. you can give him nice loots from the world and everything and enter both the PvE and the PvP world.
On the other hand you have a PvP(only)character. you can't get into the PvE world with it, but all PvP area's are free to go.

This is actually wrong. Unlike in GW1 there will be no PvP-only characters (at least not as a feature, you can play your character without ever doing PvE). If you want to PvP, just take any character and queue (or whatever) for it. For structured PvP you'll automatically unlock all skills and gear. For WvWvW your character scales up, but you keep your skills and weapons you had previously.

I also don't agree that raids are obsolete because of dynamic events.

[Deleted]

I fear GW2 is leaving the RPG here.
Roleplay in games means to develop your character, but when you can't develop if, you are stuck on the same level as everybody else, so it's not a RPG anymore, but more a class based multiplayer game (Team Fortress comes to mind). I don't know if this system is better than the "usual" mmo pvp system. Playing it will feel much more like playing a shooter or RTS. Personally I'm missing a lot of customization in it. I like to choose my trinkets etc. but maybe the skill system will replace this. But blaming your opponents gear for your loss or crushing players that are worse equipped than you is also sometimes part of the fun. *shrug*

[Deleted]

and no traditional quests and

If you think GW2 won't contain a big chunk of what you label as "traditional quests" then you are in fact, deluded. Even SWTOR has a big chunk of it, and SWTOR can't be touched by GW2 in terms of personal story progression. (And yes, I am a GW2 fan, I've played every MMO.)

After all, it's an MMO. The general activities in MMOs cannot differ too much, every MMO will have "traditional questing" in it, this has DEs, SWTOR has the personal kick-ass cut scenes, etc. All still contain traditional questing, and the "innovation" is just an addition.

[Deleted]

As has been said be4 there will still be plenty customization options at max level. 5 max level warriors can have quite different stats at lvl 80 there will be plenty of room for min max ing. But everyone will just have access to the same stuff without having to needlessly grind.

[Mothhive]

If you think GW2 won't contain a big chunk of what you label as "traditional quests" then you are in fact, deluded. Even SWTOR has a big chunk of it, and SWTOR can't be touched by GW2 in terms of personal story progression. (And yes, I am a GW2 fan, I've played every MMO.)

After all, it's an MMO. The general activities in MMOs cannot differ too much, every MMO will have "traditional questing" in it, this has DEs, SWTOR has the personal kick-ass cut scenes, etc. All still contain traditional questing, and the "innovation" is just an addition.

No, it won't have "traditional quests" and anyone that labels themself a GW2 fan should know this already. You may be doing slightly similar things to previous MMOs, but the way you encounter these situations, deal with them, and what happens at their conclusion, is entirely different. Simply having objectives available in a game does not equate to it having a traditional questing system. I suggest reading this:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/...82#post1067082

Also not sure why you're bringing up SWTOR as if the fact that it has traditional quests should mean something. It's just a regular old school MMO with added voice acting, whereas GW2 is actually trying to inovate.

[jvbastel]

If you think GW2 won't contain a big chunk of what you label as "traditional quests" then you are in fact, deluded. Even SWTOR has a big chunk of it, and SWTOR can't be touched by GW2 in terms of personal story progression. (And yes, I am a GW2 fan, I've played every MMO.)

After all, it's an MMO. The general activities in MMOs cannot differ too much, every MMO will have "traditional questing" in it, this has DEs, SWTOR has the personal kick-ass cut scenes, etc. All still contain traditional questing, and the "innovation" is just an addition.

ANET's Eric Flannum recently posted about this on gw2Guru:

I thought that something I posted in a thread a while back might be relevant to the discussion so I'll re-post it.

This is going to be a bit of a long post so bear with me.

It is true that we do want to get away from the standard kill X MMO quest. One thing that’s important to realize is that while we desire to get rid of this sort of thing there are a finite number of actions one can undertake in a combat focused game and there are a finite number of ways to express to a player what they should be doing. I think too often we get caught up in semantics when the root of the problem is that the standard kill X quest is bad because it is unexciting and has no context or consequence.
For example let’s pretend we have a situation where a group of undead creatures is gathering in a swamp to attack a local fortress.

In a typical kill X quest I would walk up to the commander of the fortress and he’d have an exclamation mark over his head. I’d click on him and he would present me with text describing how evil and foul the undead in the swamp are and how if they are not dealt with they will overrun his fortress. I accept this task and head to the swamp. It is likely that I now have “Kill 10 zombies” as a quest objective. I enter the swamp, see zombies and start killing them. After killing 10 I decide to head back to the fortress and turn in my quest. If I hadn’t done the quest what would have happened? Would the zombies have attacked? Are they still going to attack? I killed 10 of them but there are still more of them out there, doesn’t that matter? This is the experience provided by the typical kill X quest.

In Guild Wars 2, let’s take the same set up and apply it to a dynamic event. As I approach the fortress the commander runs up to me and says out loud for everyone in the area to hear that there are zombies in the local swamp, they are building up to attack his fort and someone had better do something. I head to the swamp and notice that the usual wildlife is gone, having been slain by the zombie horde (you actually get to see this happen as the event starts) when I enter the event radius I have the objective of “Cull the Zombie Horde” followed by a percentage indicating how much of the horde remains and a timer. I start killing zombies as the timer counts down. If I and any other adventurers in the area can cull the horde down to 0% before time expires then the remaining zombies will flee and disaster has been averted. I’ll automatically receive a reward, the fortress remains safe and the original wildlife will return to the swamp. If I fail to cull the horde and the timer reaches zero then the zombies will all shamble out of the swamp and attack the fortress. I have failed the event but now a new event presents itself where I can defend the fortress from the horde. If the fortress is overrun it will remain occupied by zombies until cleared, a valuable travel point will be lost, merchants and other NPC’s will be unavailable. My act of killing the zombies actually protected the fortress with the consequence of possibly losing the fortress when I failed the event.

In each case I was killing zombies. In each case I had a goal up on screen that communicated very similar things. However, the experience that I had during and after each type of content was very different due to context and consequences. Hope that clears things up a bit.

Yes there will be some grindquests, but they won't be as tedious as the ones in WOW/SWTOR, because they are presented in a very different, less static way.

Also, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that SWTOR's storytelling will be better than GW2's. While it's definitely a step up from WOW, I still greatly prefer GW1 storytelling over SWTOR's, so GW2 might surprise you

[Deleted]

Wow i was planning to try this mmo but after reading this thread i probably wont. Imo mmo like this wont be a competition to wow sadly.

[Commander]

What about WvWvW, world bosses and 5man PvE instances?

Will gear be useful in regard to those?

[Deleted]

Looking cool > looking shit, just because you need 20 more of stat X than the other guy.

Been able to do anything in the game when I want > having to spend countless weeks farming the same re-skinned stuff over and over.

Wow i was planning to try this mmo but after reading this thread i probably wont. Imo mmo like this wont be a competition to wow sadly.

Nobody here cares if it's competition to WoW, we care that the game is good. Stop trying to bait people into a flame war of X vs Y.

If you like the gear treadmill, carrot on a stick raiding stick to WoW, if you hate it try GW2 simple.

[Borzo]

This thread makes my brain hurt.

I always assumed people play video games for ... fun?

Normally this is where I'd make a comment about along the lines of "if you want to work, get a job", but I'll hold it in. I understand that some people - while they don't want a game to be job exactly - do want some sense of progression. I can get behind that. But as stated already in this thread, there are many ways of "progressing" that has nothing to do with stats on gear: Story. Aesthetics. Player skill.

The best comparison - pointed out on the first page by someone I think - is: What about FPS games? What about strategy games? What about 80% of the games out there that have no stat-based progression in them? People are clearly playing those... so people must be playing games for the inherent fun they provide. I do not see any reason why an MMORPG can't be just like them.

Get rid of stats-based progression, and you get a game that's fair, balanced, and based on player skill. I know that might scare some people off who attempt to band-aid their lack of skill with time (ie grinding for gear to compensate), but overall it'll make the game a better experience as a whole, I believe. PVP will be based on skill, PVE will be based on skill... but those with poor reflexes will still have plenty to do and lots of story to see. It's a different kind of game where you can't use time as a crutch to eventually get whatever/anything/everything you want in the same way as you can in other MMORPGs.

Life is short, and there are lots of things to do (and lots of games to play!) before it comes to an end. Games with forced grinding are dead to me, now and forevermore.

[Kyserella]

you are stuck on the same level as everybody else, so it's not a RPG anymore

There are many facets of character progression - gear stat progression really is arbitrary to the RPG genre. It is really silly that stat progression seems like a such a necessity to a lot of people here.