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  1. #301
    Bloodsail Admiral MKing's Avatar
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    Yep what the poster said above me i will repeat again, anyone who is against this system is against fun and wants their games to be second jobs pretty much.

  2. #302
    No replay value..

    Do you not understand what a dynamic, persistent world is?
    A man chooses, a Slave obeys. OBEY! - Andrew Ryan, Bioshock

  3. #303
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    I feel I have to post this again and again and again, because people simply won't read a sticky/get informed/read a few posts. They come here and post their misconceptions.

    GW2 will have gear progression. It's only: In competitive PvP, a standalone mode for e-sport, gear and level gets normalized. You will still have the options to make your own unique build with the tons of different skills and traits you got unlocked.


    I posted this in this thread once, but people won't bother to read. This is frustrating, there are great stickies and info-threads in the Guild Wars 2 Sub.




    so again:

    1.) gear does have stats.
    It's only, there is a tier-frontier. So you will find better gear for your playstyle.



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us



    different gear in GW2:


    Armor xy lv.80

    power: 244
    precision: 212
    toughness: 120
    vitality: 204

    lifegain +20 at night
    Armor zx lv.80

    power: 210
    precision: 250
    toughness: 200
    vitality:115

    critical hit +5%




    a player in pvp has always a chance against an other player, regardless of gear






    in other games it looks like this:


    Armor xy lv.80

    power: 244
    precision: 212
    toughness: 120
    vitality: 204

    proc. 0.5% +200dps
    Armor zy lv.80

    power: 500
    precision: 200
    toughness: 888
    vitality: 600

    proc: 0.02% +500dps




    a lv.80 player may stand no chance against an other lv.80 player if one of them has farmed gear for countless hours.





    2.) leveling does matter
    , you won't buy your skills in a shop (like in other games), you have to find certain challenges in the world and be successful there to gain skillpoints. With these points you will be able to unlock new skills. There are about 200 skill challenges hidden all over the world, so you won't have nearly all skills unlocked when you hit 80.

    this is the interface where you can spend your skillpoints:



    furthermore there are traits, these are modifiers like the skills in a skilltree. You will have to find/earn these too by exploring the world. As we speak they get a rework done, we don't know much about them yet.

    You see, you can enter World-PvP in the WvWvW-mode without all skills, traits, weapons for your playstyle (for example a hammer with a lot of precision, the hammer I have has only decent power) etc etc. BUT you will still be able to beat the hell out of guys who aren't as skilled as you. They will be really scared if you have your build + weapons that you find perfect for your playstyle, though.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    I fear GW2 is leaving the RPG here.
    Roleplay in games means to develop your character, but when you can't develop if, you are stuck on the same level as everybody else, so it's not a RPG anymore, but more a class based multiplayer game (Team Fortress comes to mind). I don't know if this system is better than the "usual" mmo pvp system. Playing it will feel much more like playing a shooter or RTS. Personally I'm missing a lot of customization in it. I like to choose my trinkets etc. but maybe the skill system will replace this. But blaming your opponents gear for your loss or crushing players that are worse equipped than you is also sometimes part of the fun. *shrug*
    ? Developing your character is a means to an end, it isn't the end itself. Not sure about you, but I didn't beat Chrono Trigger back in the day to get the best gear, I beat it to get the conclusion of the story. To go further back, I'm pretty sure people didn't play D&D for upping their character's stats, but for the storytelling experience.

    Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone saying losing to someone because of the difference in gear is 'fun'.
    Last edited by BlairPhoenix; 2012-01-23 at 03:01 PM.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyserella View Post
    There are many facets of character progression - gear stat progression really is arbitrary to the RPG genre. It is really silly that stat progression seems like a such a necessity to a lot of people here.
    Because people don't know what RPG means any more. They are also very confused about what MMO term really means. Not to mention they only know what flat and one directional gameplay is.

    I guess it's because their first MMO was WoW. People who played other online games before even blizz started to think about making WoW have much more wider point of view. So yeah, when your average WoW player looks at GW2 he can't "put the pieces together", he can only see one schematic and just throws away everything else - it doesn't even matter if it's good or bad. For them there is only one truth: if it's not like WoW then it can't be good. It's actually pretty sad :/.
    Last edited by Creepjack; 2012-01-23 at 03:03 PM.

  6. #306
    How on earth does GW2 get rid of the RPG.

    RPG = Repetitive pointless grind, now does it?

  7. #307
    From the parts of the thread that i read i'm surprised i didn't see anyone mention that even thought the gear is "cosmetic" you get to customize the shit out of it through set bonuses and stats. Transmute stones let you put stats from other pieces of gear onto your new piece. Also, customized set bonuses i the best idea of all time. Letting me pick the 5-6 pieces i want to put the set bonus on the piece rather than farming that 1 dungeon for my 5th piece 500 times.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyingmoney View Post
    Don't you know the meaning of life?
    Get born.
    Play WoW.
    Snort crack.
    Fuck bitches.
    Die.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyre Fierceshot View Post
    How on earth does GW2 get rid of the RPG.

    RPG = Repetitive pointless grind, now does it?
    lol Permission to use this response in the future?

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by BlairPhoenix View Post
    ? Developing your character is a means to an end, it isn't the end itself. Not sure about you, but I didn't beat Chrono Trigger back in the day to get the best gear, I beat it to get the conclusion of the story. To go further back, I'm pretty sure people didn't play D&D for upping their character's stats, but for the storytelling experience.

    Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone saying losing to someone because of the difference in gear is 'fun'.
    w00t best game evah !
    say hi to magus for me :>

    just an edit to stay on topic:
    Arenanet did a fine job doing the RPG side of things in gw1 tbh. If you asked me i enjoyed the leveling experience there allot more because of the amazing story telling
    so i have no doubt on my mind that the RPG will defo be in game.

    you just have to remember that the RPG thing has nothing to do with gear grind and everything to do with character development. Character development =/= getting better gear right? Wrong, character devolopment is playing the game to it's fullest, exploring the world, completing tasks, making friends, becomming the best blacksmith or the best mage you can be ....

    RPG = roleplaying game .... you pretend your someone else! You can be ANYTHING you want. And gear has nothing to do with that, why do you think RP'ers walk arround in white/gray gear all the time?
    Last edited by Chrno; 2012-01-23 at 06:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by laserguns View Post
    But do they have data showing how much fun players are having? Because surely that's what counts. You could have a game where only 1% of players can do the top raid but still everybody's having fun, and you could have a game where 100% of the players see everything but they're all bored and whining and quitting. Fun can't be quantified with straight-up data, and trying to use statistics to measure fun is a dangerous logical minefield.
    "The Perfect Raid Design Drawn by me .

  10. #310
    I guess it's because their first MMO was WoW. People who played other online games before even blizz started to think about making WoW have much more wider point of view. So yeah, when your average WoW player looks at GW2 he can't "put the pieces together", he can only see one schematic and just throws away everything else - it doesn't even matter if it's good or bad. For them there is only one truth: if it's not like WoW then it can't be good. It's actually pretty sad :/.
    Very true. I rarely see old Asheron's Call or Meridian 59 players in puzzlement over lack of a trinity class system or DAoC players stymied by the prospect of open PVP.

    The enormity of World of Warcraft is such that there is often no context one way or the other for the average MMO gamer.

  11. #311
    Herald of the Titans Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Lol I can't believe people are actually talking about this.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...se-assumptions

    Read that thread and look at the information listed. There is no point in this thread. I don't understand why you mods don't just sticky that thread and close these threads that's only point is to bash on the game.
    I am KickButtMario. I kick butt because I am Mario. The coolest, longest, living, protagonist out there in the video game industry.

    Currently playing Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar

  12. #312

  13. #313
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Very true. I rarely see old Asheron's Call or Meridian 59 players in puzzlement over lack of a trinity class system or DAoC players stymied by the prospect of open PVP.

    The enormity of World of Warcraft is such that there is often no context one way or the other for the average MMO gamer.
    Heh, don't see M59 invoked very often anymore.

    But definitely true. To those of us frustrated by this blind faith in the Trinity, GW2 is a breath of fresh air. MMORPGs have stagnated as an industry due to the dominance of WoW, and it's going to take some really strong competition to reinvigorate the industry with innovation. It's so stagnant that SWTOR, for all that it is actually fun to play, didn't even question 90% of the design we have in WoW. Another 4% stacking sunder debuff? Did we really need that? This is an MMO released on the cusp of 2012, for Pesci's</carlin> sake.

    GW2, success or failure, should actually bring some of this stuff to light. While I'm really hoping it's as awesome as it could be, I'll be happy if it at least gets the conversation rolling again. Time for fresh blood.

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by rabbimojo View Post
    But definitely true. To those of us frustrated by this blind faith in the Trinity, GW2 is a breath of fresh air. MMORPGs have stagnated as an industry due to the dominance of WoW, and it's going to take some really strong competition to reinvigorate the industry with innovation. It's so stagnant that SWTOR, for all that it is actually fun to play, didn't even question 90% of the design we have in WoW. Another 4% stacking sunder debuff? Did we really need that? This is an MMO released on the cusp of 2012, for Pesci's</carlin> sake.
    So much truth in these words...
    "Loss of blood... My only weakness!"
    ~ Warlord Khan, Magicka

    Anyway, if you don't already see where I'm going with this, allow me to spell it out: the only meaningful MMORPG "endgame" -- i.e., something novel to do after the progression process is over -- is that of the sandbox.

  15. #315
    Bloodsail Admiral Supajayare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    You cannot view this game like you view alot of MMO's out their. You have to play it as you would a Elderscrolls game. Take skyrim for example. If you just play it for the main story then you are going to miss out on all the other intricate pieces that make up the game. There is a reason for the flat leveling curve. They dont want the game to be about getting to the end. They want their game to be about the experiences and exploration throughout the game.

    This is also why there is no gear progression. Gear progression trivializes the content the better the gear gets. Alot of players coming from a background where the gear has a huge impact on how you play will always feel challenged in guild wars 2 and thats a good thing. I dont know if you played WoW but when cataclysm launched i had a lot of trouble with the heroic dungeons when we first entered. And that was a fun experience, learning the fights and learning from mistakes, the fights were fun. But after raiding for a month those same dungeons lost their luster and became stale and old because they were not challenging anymore and were annoying to have to complete. I didnt feel engaged in the combat and fights were over in a minute or so.

    The incentive for getting gear at level 80 will all be about how the gear looks more than how the gear improves my damage. What keeps you playing this game is the same thing that keeps you playing games like Skyrim which is the open dynamic world that is constantly changing where around every corner theirs undiscovered dungeons and in every town their is someone that needs help, and there are organizations sending you out on epic quests.

    If you cant play a game for the experience then what are you playing it for? I play for the story btw =)
    Let me go a bit off topic here, about 4 months ago prior to ToR's release I was beyond excited to get my hands on the Old Republic.... A feeling I haven't had for quite awhile (probably since before WoW vanilla launch.) Still playing ToR right now and enjoying it. I've been feeling that very same way about GW2 ever since I first heard about it late 2010, so you could say that for a time I've been really excited for 2 MMo's. However, the post I just quoted just amp'd me up WAAAAAYY more for GW2! If there's one thing that I think the MMo genre has lost track of is what alot of the people on this thread is saying, simply "having fun" with the content AND without the standard treadmill gameplay attached to it - I.E. I simply want to particapate in WvWvW to represent my server and have pride for the keep i'm defending or the keep me and my realmmates have taken, not because it gives me X amount of honor to get said amount pvp gear (this is one thing I miss about DAoC). I for once want to join an instance with my friends and/or guildmates simply to experience the content, not because of the purple text which identifies the loot.

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