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  1. #21
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    So let me get this 100% right, you get to lvl 80, you farm for gear that only has visiual difference and you got a set damage output and there is no way to improve that?

    the endgame gameplay is then to run around and discover the world, get more visual gear and fight on a even scale vs everyone else?
    Correct. Your gear will not affect your damage output. Your personal skill and set of skills you take with you effect your damage output. There's also no "endgame". I assume you're also looking to compare to WoW. There are no raids and no dungeon spamming getting that upgrade that takes 1001 farm runs to drop.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkalafut View Post
    I assume you're also looking to compare to WoW. There are no raids and no dungeon spamming getting that upgrade that takes 1001 farm runs to drop.
    I assume it will take some time to get gear from dungeons. I mean visiual gear.
    Be patience I am dyslexic..

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    So let me get this 100% right, you get to lvl 80, you farm for gear that only has visiual difference and you got a set damage output and there is no way to improve that?

    the endgame gameplay is then to run around and discover the world, get more visual gear and fight on a even scale vs everyone else?
    its funny the mindset of people that plays rpgs

    do you do anything for fun at all? or there must be a purple behind it for you to see your time well invested?

    do something out of enjoyment every once in a while it feels nice

  4. #24
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkina View Post
    I assume it will take some time to get gear from dungeons. I mean visiual gear.
    They said that a group of 5 people took ~3 hours to clear the explorable mode (heroic for the WoW guys) version of a dungeon. And no, you assume wrong. When you complete a dungeon you get a token for gear. I will not go into there there are tons of megathreads on MMO-C and any google search will provide you with more information on dungeons and loot in GW2. But as a TL;DR, and correct me if I'm wrong, dungeons reward loot token (among other things) where you go and choose what you want to spend that token on. Depending on the dungeon and the difficulty will determine what "set" you get a piece for.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-22 at 06:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zingar View Post
    its funny the mindset of people that plays rpgs

    do you do anything for fun at all? or there must be a purple behind it for you to see your time well invested?

    do something out of enjoyment every once in a while it feels nice
    Pretty much. Gear treadmill + virtual forms of character progression are apparently very stimulating for the masses. Fun isn't enough. Experiencing things and having fun and conquering a challenge isn't enough. Gotta get them purplez.
    Last edited by Mkalafut; 2012-01-22 at 06:06 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkalafut View Post
    I assume by Traditional MMO you mean WoW? Yes the world is persistent. Like WoW. Not every town is instanced like GW1. Search function.
    I asked a question and got a pretty straight forward answer rather than having to sieve through pages of useless threads unrelated to it.

    Anyway, to my point, as Zeek pointed out. This isn't a traditional MMO, your progress will be driven by the content and story. Not gear.

    And apparently the decided to let people jump in this one, which is a bonus.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkalafut View Post
    They said that a group of 5 people took ~3 hours to clear the explorable mode (heroic for the WoW guys) version of a dungeon. And no, you assume wrong. When you complete a dungeon you get a token for gear. I will not go into there there are tons of megathreads on MMO-C and any google search will provide you with more information on dungeons and loot in GW2.
    I know, but I assume it will take more than one run to get all the tokens you need.
    Be patience I am dyslexic..

  7. #27
    I dont think that is purely negative, I just struggle to find the replay value.

    My take on pvp gear is for example wow, I dont mind the grind, it gives me a great incentive to play and have fun, once I got the full honor gear, theres really not that much to do? You sit in stormwind, maxed with honor and honorgear, trying to find a rbg or waiting for mates to do arena. And thats about it.
    You can pvp for fun and do bgs for fun, but that gets old very fast when you get no specific gain out of it.

    If GW2 can give me an incentive to continue doing battlegrounds without even thinking about gear that would make me glad, since then the "dull" period after you got full honor gear will never come.
    Is endgame really fixed, like for example Leauge of legends, all characters has a set damage output, and how you choose to specc(build) makes you different from others, is that how it is in gw2?
    And the only thing that makes people different from eachother?

    So my question then is,
    how will they reward you?
    how will they keep the incentive?
    how is the gear obtained?
    Whats the incentive to do world pvp 6 hours a day?
    Whats the incentive to do battlegrounds?
    Is there no way to obtain an edge on your opponent, gear wise?

    If all you get after 6 hours of pvping is a new chestpiece that looks awesome, but thats about it, and that is the entire game.
    Then I struggle too see what will make me keep playing for a long while.
    Last edited by Ajesto; 2012-01-22 at 06:08 AM.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkina View Post
    I know, but I assume it will take more than one run to get all the tokens you need.
    Most likely, yes. But each run will be different than the last. As in, different instances of the same dungeon upon reset (or what have you) will have different paths and different enemy types to differentiate from a tedious grind.

  9. #29
    Apparently when a company tries to make their game "fun", that concept scares people, just like the word "change".

    I wonder what would happen if I said that Guild Wars 2 will be a "fun change"? Rofl.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mkalafut View Post
    Most likely, yes. But each run will be different than the last. As in, different instances of the same dungeon upon reset (or what have you) will have different paths and different enemy types to differentiate from a tedious grind.
    Yes all that i know

    But was just to say its not easy to get the gear, you will have to put some time in to it.
    Be patience I am dyslexic..

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    I dont think that is purely negative, I just struggle to find the replay value.

    If all you get after 6 hours of pvping is a new chestpiece that looks awesome, but thats about it, and that is the entire game.
    Then I struggle too see what will make me keep playing for a long while.
    If playing for joy and fun isn't enough and you get bored it's completely ok to take a break from the game until something new shows up that interests you. Game has no sub fee.

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    I dont think that is purely negative, I just struggle to find the replay value.

    My take on pvp gear is for example wow, I dont mind the grind, it gives me a great incentive to play and have fun, once I got the full honor gear, theres really not that much to do? You sit in stormwind, maxed with honor and honorgear, trying to find a rbg or waiting for mates to do arena. And thats about it.

    If GW2 can give me an incentive to continue doing battlegrounds without even thinking about gear that would make me glad, since then the "dull" period after you got full honor gear will never come.
    Is endgame really fixed, like for example Leauge of legends, all characters has a set damage output, and how you choose to specc(build) makes you different from others, is that how it is in gw2?
    And the only thing that makes people different from eachother?

    So my question then is,
    how will they reward you?
    how will they keep the incentive?
    how is the gear obtained?
    Whats the incentive to do world pvp 6 hours a day?
    Whats the incentive to do battlegrounds?
    Is there no way to obtain an edge on your opponent, gear wise?

    If all you get after 6 hours of pvping is a new chestpiece that looks awesome, but thats about it, and that is the entire game.
    Then I struggle too see what will make me keep playing for a long while.
    I'm guessing you don't play fps games then?

    The game is about having fun, wtf is the point in trying to play the unending arms race that WoW created for its pvp? They created a system where the tiny little numbers on the gear is what decides the outcome of the battle, and that just makes even trying to play PvP competitvely useless.

    I would rather play an arena match with balanced classes that have the exact same gear as I do, because then I know that they lost because I was more skilled than they are, THAT is more rewarding than any motherfucking purple upgrade I get out of pvp in wow.

    The incentive is to play for fun and be the best you can be, very few games offer the purity of that caliber anymore.
    Last edited by Lothaeryn; 2012-01-22 at 06:23 AM.
    And should he be a prophet of It's coming, he shall be cast out by his kin and his peers, for they cannot comprehend and fear the end of the corrupt empire. - Unknown, 3/1/2012
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  13. #33
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    I dont think that is purely negative, I just struggle to find the replay value.

    My take on pvp gear is for example wow, I dont mind the grind, it gives me a great incentive to play and have fun, once I got the full honor gear, theres really not that much to do? You sit in stormwind, maxed with honor and honorgear, trying to find a rbg or waiting for mates to do arena. And thats about it.
    You can pvp for fun and do bgs for fun, but that gets old very fast when you get no specific gain out of it.

    If GW2 can give me an incentive to continue doing battlegrounds without even thinking about gear that would make me glad, since then the "dull" period after you got full honor gear will never come.
    Is endgame really fixed, like for example Leauge of legends, all characters has a set damage output, and how you choose to specc(build) makes you different from others, is that how it is in gw2?
    And the only thing that makes people different from eachother?

    So my question then is,
    how will they reward you?
    how will they keep the incentive?
    how is the gear obtained?
    Whats the incentive to do world pvp 6 hours a day?
    Whats the incentive to do battlegrounds?
    Is there no way to obtain an edge on your opponent, gear wise?

    If all you get after 6 hours of pvping is a new chestpiece that looks awesome, but thats about it, and that is the entire game.
    Then I struggle too see what will make me keep playing for a long while.
    Well if it's anything like GW1 is (I say is because I've been an active player since release ... 7 years ago) there will be rewards tacked on to that. You will have access to pvp specific titles, gear, mini pets, and currency. For example. PvP in GW1 will reward you with 2 types of faction. One type can be spent on keys to unlock a chest. Giving you title progress and a chance at rare items, (more commonly giving alcohol or sweets, but hey a chance is a chance). Another can be spent on a specific armor set of your choosing (Kurzick or Luxon).

    Without getting into too much detail as I'm sure this thread is rolling along as I type this wall of text which will probably only be skimmed through, I'll go to your "bullet" points.
    Rewards: currency, pvp ONLY armor sets, weapons, and mini pets
    Incentive: money, fun, WvWvW is a 2 week ongoing battle against 3 servers.. if that doesn't interest you I don't know what will
    Gear Obtained: Can't really say for now if we're only talking PvP. But in GW1 it was crafted by using faction to purchase items specific to that faction used to craft their specific set of armor.
    World PvP isn't supposed to be competetive, it's for fun. Arena is competitive. You do it for fun, make friends, and gain rewards (obviously).
    Read up, there aren't WoW style battlegrounds in GW2.
    No. Why should there be? Would you rather beat someone on an equal playing field or have your gear do the work for you? I'd rather beat someone in a fair fight where the only thing between victory and defeat is my skill vs yours.


    ---------- Post added 2012-01-22 at 06:17 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Pushkina View Post
    Yes all that i know

    But was just to say its not easy to get the gear, you will have to put some time in to it.
    Absolutely. And from what I hear the dungeons are tough and pretty long. Good fun incoming =]
    Last edited by Mkalafut; 2012-01-22 at 06:27 AM.

  14. #34
    Your right Lothaeryn, I would also like to play arena matches on a equal and consistent gearbalanced level.
    Playing world pvp and battlegrounds for fun and then rewarding the player with cosmetic gains insted of + 10 more agility is how it should be.

    Jumping into pvp at lvl one, and being able to face people with the exact same hp and the exact same stats, the only different is how they choose to build do sound awesome.
    I just fear that without any character progression at all, they game might become dull.

    Even fps games have character progression of some sort.
    Last edited by Ajesto; 2012-01-22 at 06:31 AM.

  15. #35
    I think the naysayers need to sit down and think about the situation in WoW for a moment. In ranked PvP, gear progression is an illusion anyway. They can put out weapons that let you hit harder but then they put out armour with more resilience and stamina. You end up doing pretty much the same percentage of damage to your enemy from start to finish. It is all simply a cheap trick to keep people on the treadmill, thinking they are actually improving their character when they are just in reality just pushing every new session to just break even.

    All gear "progression" let you do was smash folks in random BGs with access to lower tier gear then you to allow people with poor self-esteem feel like a big man. In the actual competitive PvP portions of the game, it was a stupid circle that had you gaining no ground at all. I am glad AN are smart enough to finally see though this flimsy illusion. Maybe one day more WoW players will too.
    Last edited by Torais; 2012-01-22 at 06:26 AM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    Even fps games have character progression of some sort.
    That's a modern concept that has sadly caught on. Traditionally FPS games never had any kind of progression in the multiplayer because it's completely arbitrary and unnecessary. That and the progression you see in most multiplayer FPS games and even in games where you need to farm gear isn't very meaningful. You aren't rewarded based on your skill, but based on time spent. Granted, being better can improve the speed of progress, but you can never learn a thing and get fully geared/max level whatnot in many games. That's kinda backwards IMO : /

  17. #37
    Mechagnome Mkalafut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    Your right Lothaeryn, I would also like to play arena matches on a equal and consistent gearbalanced level.
    Playing world pvp and battlegrounds for fun and then rewarding the player with cosmetic gains insted of + 10 more agility is how it should be.

    Jumping into pvp at lvl one, and being able to face people with the exact same hp and the exact same stats, the only different is how they choose to build do sound awesome.
    I just fear that without any character progression at all, they game might become dull.

    Even fps games have character progression of some sort.
    I misunderstood your questions as fanboy bashing, I apologize. I'm glad you feel that way instead of bashing it for being different than the cookie cutter.

    That being said it's all a personal preference. If it's getting stale, stop playing a bit. It's buy to play, there's no feeling of "Bah I need to get my 15$ worth this month." You don't want to play for a week or more? Go ahead and come back whenever or don't. It's up to you.

    But I've been an active player of GW1 since the day it came out and am actually playing it as I type this to you now. It's all how you value your time and what you think is fun.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-22 at 06:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Torais View Post
    I think the naysayers need to sit down and think about the situation in WoW for a moment. In ranked PvP, gear progression is an illusion anyway. They can put out weapons that let you hit harder but then they put out armour with more resilience and stamina. You end up doing pretty much the same percentage of damage to your enemy from start to finish. It is all simply a cheap trick to keep people on the treadmill, thinking they are actually improving their character when they are just in reality just pushing every new session to just break even.

    All gear "progression" let you do was smash folks in random BGs with access to lower tier gear then you to make you feel like a big man. In the actual competitive PvP portions of the game, it was a stupid circle that had you gaining no ground at all. I am glad AN are smart enough to finally see though this flimsy illusion. Maybe one day more WoW players will too.
    Yep, quote from me "virtual progression". It's just an illusion, like you said. I'm fine with the stats having a limit like they did in GW1. Skill trumps purples any day in my book. This isn't new though. The same principles were found in GW1.
    Last edited by Mkalafut; 2012-01-22 at 06:26 AM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    the endgame gameplay is then to run around and discover the world, get more visual gear and fight on a even scale vs everyone else?
    Pretty much.

    Same system was used in GW1 with success. It's the philosophy of design Anet adhere to. Not for everyone perhaps, but it's nice to have variety all the same.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajesto View Post
    Your right Lothaeryn, I would also like to play arena matches on a equal and consistent gearbalanced level.
    Playing world pvp and battlegrounds for fun and then rewarding the player with cosmetic gains insted of + 10 more agility is how it should be.

    Jumping into pvp at lvl one, and being able to face people with the exact same hp and the exact same stats, the only different is how they choose to build do sound awesome.
    I just fear that without any character progression at all, they game might become dull.

    Even fps games have character progression of some sort.
    But you will have character progression, Personal storyline, unique gear, home instance.
    Be patience I am dyslexic..

  20. #40
    As many have said in this thread to date, GW2 isn't about being on a treadmill that requires you to replace 17 items of equipment every time a patch is released. As a result, once you have a set of gear at level 80, there is no technical reason to do anything further in that regard in game (but the opportunity is there for aesthetic reasons if you want to). As a result, the things you do in game at level 80 are now dictated by your own personal feelings and aspirations, and not an imposed necessity to do X because you need Y to remain on par with the rest of the community.

    It's a pardigm shift in thinking that some people will get, others won't, some will love, and some won't. Neither of these reactions is right or wrong, it truly is a case of different strokes for different folks.

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