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  1. #1
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    GW2: killing 10 mobs - Quest vs. Dynamic Event

    Eric Flannum (lead designer of GW2) explained why basically the same task makes a difference in GW2:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Flannum
    It is true that we do want to get away from the standard kill X MMO quest. One thing that’s important to realize is that while we desire to get rid of this sort of thing there are a finite number of actions one can undertake in a combat focused game and there are a finite number of ways to express to a player what they should be doing. I think too often we get caught up in semantics when the root of the problem is that the standard kill X quest is bad because it is unexciting and has no context or consequence.
    For example let’s pretend we have a situation where a group of undead creatures is gathering in a swamp to attack a local fortress.

    In a typical kill X quest I would walk up to the commander of the fortress and he’d have an exclamation mark over his head. I’d click on him and he would present me with text describing how evil and foul the undead in the swamp are and how if they are not dealt with they will overrun his fortress. I accept this task and head to the swamp. It is likely that I now have “Kill 10 zombies” as a quest objective. I enter the swamp, see zombies and start killing them. After killing 10 I decide to head back to the fortress and turn in my quest. If I hadn’t done the quest what would have happened? Would the zombies have attacked? Are they still going to attack? I killed 10 of them but there are still more of them out there, doesn’t that matter? This is the experience provided by the typical kill X quest.

    In Guild Wars 2, let’s take the same set up and apply it to a dynamic event. As I approach the fortress the commander runs up to me and says out loud for everyone in the area to hear that there are zombies in the local swamp, they are building up to attack his fort and someone had better do something. I head to the swamp and notice that the usual wildlife is gone, having been slain by the zombie horde (you actually get to see this happen as the event starts) when I enter the event radius I have the objective of “Cull the Zombie Horde” followed by a percentage indicating how much of the horde remains and a timer. I start killing zombies as the timer counts down. If I and any other adventurers in the area can cull the horde down to 0% before time expires then the remaining zombies will flee and disaster has been averted. I’ll automatically receive a reward, the fortress remains safe and the original wildlife will return to the swamp. If I fail to cull the horde and the timer reaches zero then the zombies will all shamble out of the swamp and attack the fortress. I have failed the event but now a new event presents itself where I can defend the fortress from the horde. If the fortress is overrun it will remain occupied by zombies until cleared, a valuable travel point will be lost, merchants and other NPC’s will be unavailable. My act of killing the zombies actually protected the fortress with the consequence of possibly losing the fortress when I failed the event.

    In each case I was killing zombies. In each case I had a goal up on screen that communicated very similar things. However, the experience that I had during and after each type of content was very different due to context and consequences. Hope that clears things up a bit.
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  2. #2
    The Patient Euzan's Avatar
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    And this is why GW2 is going to be so epic!

  3. #3
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    I made the same point ages ago

  4. #4
    :P isn't that what we do on this forum? make the same points over and over

  5. #5
    I'll give GW2 a fair shot once it releases, I'm actually looking forward to it. But even a fancy grind is still a grind...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Keadin84 View Post
    I'll give GW2 a fair shot once it releases, I'm actually looking forward to it. But even a fancy grind is still a grind...
    It's not a grind as in ''collect 100 of X'', but of course they won't give away stuff for free. If something costs say 100 Karma, then you must ''grind'' that Karma, but that just means doing some DE's here and there. Not grinding the same place/mobs over and over.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    It's not a grind as in ''collect 100 of X'', but of course they won't give away stuff for free. If something costs say 100 Karma, then you must ''grind'' that Karma, but that just means doing some DE's here and there. Not grinding the same place/mobs over and over.
    Like I said, I'll give it a fair shot, and I hope it's every bit as epic as advertised ^^

  8. #8
    I'm keeping myself informed about GW2, as I'll very likely play it. This is indeed revolutionary and awesome. However - and I know it's not the topic at hand - the fact that gear is pretty much of cosmetic value and levels kind of meaningless, really throws me off. I love a lot of the features this game's going to bring to the table, but a couple of them are really discouraging me from trying it. Some aspects, like the ones I mentioned, seem so different or completely not there from what I envision as basic MMORPG requirements, that make me wonder if I'll like it or not. I'm gonna stay off the hype train, as I don't want to be disappointed (I'm not disputing the fact that some people actually love those features, but they're not for me).

    Nevertheless, I think it's going to be a great game.

  9. #9
    The levels are by no means meaningless. I think u misunderstand. As you level from lvl 1-80 u will unlock all kinds of skills, traits, gear etc etc... U will keep getting stronger until you reach level 80 it just "caps" there

  10. #10
    I'm really excited about GW2 and I hope it brings fresh ideas to the mmorpg genre. Everytime I read something like this about it, I wish it was already released

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I'm keeping myself informed about GW2, as I'll very likely play it. This is indeed revolutionary and awesome. However - and I know it's not the topic at hand - the fact that gear is pretty much of cosmetic value and levels kind of meaningless, really throws me off. I love a lot of the features this game's going to bring to the table, but a couple of them are really discouraging me from trying it. Some aspects, like the ones I mentioned, seem so different or completely not there from what I envision as basic MMORPG requirements, that make me wonder if I'll like it or not. I'm gonna stay off the hype train, as I don't want to be disappointed (I'm not disputing the fact that some people actually love those features, but they're not for me).

    Nevertheless, I think it's going to be a great game.
    I posted this minutes ago in an other thread:



    1.) gear does have stats.
    It's only, there is a tier-frontier. So you will find better gear for your playstyle.



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us



    different gear in GW2:


    Armor xy lv.80

    power: 244
    precision: 212
    toughness: 120
    vitality: 204

    lifegain +20 at night
    Armor zx lv.80

    power: 210
    precision: 250
    toughness: 200
    vitality:115

    critical hit +5%


    a player in pvp has always a chance against an other player, regardless of gear






    in other games it looks like this:


    Armor xy lv.80

    power: 244
    precision: 212
    toughness: 120
    vitality: 204

    proc. 0.5% +200dps
    Armor zy lv.80

    power: 500
    precision: 200
    toughness: 888
    vitality: 600

    proc: 0.02% +500dps


    a lv.80 player may stand no chance against an other lv.80 player if one of them has farmed gear for countless hours.





    2.) leveling does matter
    , you won't buy your skills in a shop (like in other games), you have to find certain challenges in the world and be successful there to gain skillpoints. With these points you will be able to unlock new skills. There are about 200 skill challenges hidden all over the world, so you won't have nearly all skills unlocked when you hit 80.

    this is the interface where you can spend your skillpoints:



    furthermore there are traits, these are modifiers like the skills in a skilltree. You will have to find/earn these too by exploring the world. As we speak they get a rework done, we don't know much about them yet.

    You see, you can enter World-PvP in the WvWvW-mode without all skills, traits, weapons for your playstyle (for example a hammer with a lot of precision, the hammer I have has only decent power) etc etc. BUT you will still be able to beat the hell out of guys who aren't as skilled as you. They will be really scared if you have your build + weapons that you find perfect for your playstyle, though.

  12. #12
    Honestly, your post on gear probably deserves its own thread, I've seen so many people here saying 'gear doesn't matter' or 'gear is purely cosmetic' and I know some of these are stated by fans of GW2 with good intentions, it really isn't the full truth, and can easily be misread by less informed people which in turn, turns them away from the game.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    A rose by any other name...

    People seem to forget that when WoW came kill 10 X was a revolution, since Everquest had been kill X until you're bored, fall asleep at the keyboard, or out level the zone.

    GW2 looks good, but this is definitely becoming the Obama of MMOs.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    A rose by any other name...

    People seem to forget that when WoW came kill 10 X was a revolution, since Everquest had been kill X until you're bored, fall asleep at the keyboard, or out level the zone.

    GW2 looks good, but this is definitely becoming the Obama of MMOs.
    The Obama of MMOs? You are saying that they are making a bunch of promises of change they won't keep? Seriously?

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    The Obama of MMOs? You are saying that they are making a bunch of promises of change they won't keep? Seriously?
    No, I guess that was too loaded and vague. What I meant is that people are putting a tremendous amount of hope for positive change in the genre into GW2 and I'm skeptical that the experience they deliver will be quite as mold breaking as people are hoping. But, maybe it will. That would be awesome.

  16. #16
    Thanks for the info, Maarius.

  17. #17
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    No, I guess that was too loaded and vague. What I meant is that people are putting a tremendous amount of hope for positive change in the genre into GW2 and I'm skeptical that the experience they deliver will be quite as mold breaking as people are hoping. But, maybe it will. That would be awesome.
    well there were many many conventions so far where players could play the game... We don't base our knowledge on nothing.

  18. #18
    I don't understand why people are hyping up this dynamic event thing so much. I always thought they looked like Public Quests before, but the example he gave is _exactly_ what happens in Rift and, just like Warhammer, the events weren't much fun after the tenth time doing them, especially when you're a newbie trying to level up and the local city is overrun by monsters you can't kill.

  19. #19
    This dynamic event seem a little similar to Rifts, but it does seem to be more fleshed out.
    Since these events are the primary way to level we will be seeing lots of different scenarios, right?

  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Mif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganathar View Post
    Since these events are the primary way to level we will be seeing lots of different scenarios, right?
    Yeah. You'll be able to level an alt and have a very different experience in the same zones you went through on your last character.

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