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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Keadin84 View Post
    I'll give GW2 a fair shot once it releases, I'm actually looking forward to it. But even a fancy grind is still a grind...
    I guess GW2 is going to suck because leveling is just a fancy grind with their silly dynamic events and the dungeons are just a grind too with fancy stories and mechanics and the world boss events are just fancy grinds too bah this game is going to suck amirite but I'll give it a shot. *rollseyes*

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epheaya View Post
    I don't understand why people are hyping up this dynamic event thing so much. I always thought they looked like Public Quests before, but the example he gave is _exactly_ what happens in Rift and, just like Warhammer, the events weren't much fun after the tenth time doing them, especially when you're a newbie trying to level up and the local city is overrun by monsters you can't kill.
    I did hate that in Rift, but the Rifts never scaled to the number of people nearby or their levels, but dynamic events do. Most dynamic events scale the the number of participants present. Are you the only one there doing anything? Scaled for one player. Have fun!

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    I posted this minutes ago in an other thread <snip>
    The problem in "other games" isn't that the inherent value of stat budgets is greater than GW2 stat budget. It's more that gear continues to inflate exponentially in other games. So that level 80 armor might have triple or quadruple stat inflation but still be level 80 armor. That creates a design problem if content ceilings can't be raised quicker than the rate of stat inflation.

    Some games with exponential stat inflation don't have the same issue as Warcraft's inflation. Blizz also have 7+ years of rampant growth in the item budgets.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-01-22 at 07:08 PM.

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The problem in o"other games" isn't that the inherent value of stat budgets is greater than GW2 stat budget. It's more that gear continues to inflate exponentially in other games. So that level 80 armor might have triple or quadruple stat inflation but still be level 80 armor. That creates a design problem if content ceilings can't be raised quicker than the rate of stat inflation.
    Hence what will be the "Great Item Squish of 2012" for WoW.

  5. #25
    This is the first time I say this, but at all the information I've read about GW2 I think it's the only mmo out there that will give wow a challange. Looks so amazing and looking at how good GW1 was I'd say we got a bright future ahead of us.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    I did hate that in Rift, but the Rifts never scaled to the number of people nearby or their levels, but dynamic events do. Most dynamic events scale the the number of participants present. Are you the only one there doing anything? Scaled for one player. Have fun!
    Rifts and DEs do scale to player numbers and power level. Players don't scale to level however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    Hence what will be the "Great Item Squish of 2012" for WoW.
    Yea, it's a black hole of sorts they got themselves into.

  7. #27
    It really becomes frustrating to have to answer the same questions over and over, especially when we have a sticky on the forum. Even worse are the same misconceptions that must be corrected time and time again.

    YES, gear does have stats, it caps out at 80 and beyond that you will focus on differentiating your character through gear modifiers/traits/weapons/skills/player skill.

    Dynamic Events only hold a similarity to PQs or Rifts at the very basic level. PQs were entirely static with hard locked difficulty levels, a poor loot roll system, didn't scale, and reset right as you finished it. Rifts had static spawn points in the world that spawned randomly, it didn't scale, you had about 4 different Rift types that just changed the look of the Rift and the enemies that came from it.

    Dynamic Events however scale based on the amount of people taking part, scale back down if people stop participating, the more people who are there gives bosses new attacks to help defeat more players, more enemies will spawn so that it's always a challenge based on the amount of people taking part. DEs don't just sit there and respawn, if you complete part of an event it will spawn a new event in that chain relevant to the event you just finished. Here's an example:

    Say there’s a Dredge army making their way out of their base. You could possibly get together with people and defeat the Dredge allowing you to push into their base, defeat their commander, rescue captured soldiers, and then even defend the base against rallying Dredge who try to retake it.

    Now let’s say you either ignore or fail to kill the Dredge army, that army will then create a base in friendly territory, they’ll build walls, create siege weaponry for defense, etc. They’ll then send out bands of Dredge to sack nearby towns, they might send out a sniper to the nearby hills to kill merchants. Now it’s your job to defeat them, destroy their new base, liberate any taken towns, and even then push back to their original stronghold. This all stems from ONE single event, the Dredge army marching from their base and there are 1,600 of these events currently, all hand scripted.


    On top of all of this ArenaNet has said things aren't going to just respawn 5 minutes later, events can take hours, days, weeks, and even months to be back in the same exact way you may have seen it originally. Also, this has to take into account player interaction, if no player does anything the enemy will still move on and conquer the world whether you're there or not. Events also affect other events like a chain reaction, some events can have zone wide consequences, some are triggered through player interaction with an NPC or an object in the world, weather systems, day & night cycles, etc. Nor does this take into account the different experiences you'll have playing with different profession combos making even those experiences unique due to profession synergy.



    The world is ALWAYS changing, you're never going to login and know exactly what state the world is in. If players don't intervene, enemies will conquer the world and it will stay conquered for as long as it takes until players take it back. So if centaurs have taken over a fortress and it's been 2 weeks since that happened, if no players have taken it back then it's not going anywhere. During that time the centaurs won't just sit there, they'll spread out to take over other parts of the zone, they'll kill merchants, npcs, etc. They won't sit still and wait for you to come kill them.

  8. #28
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rouge Master 9000 View Post
    I guess GW2 is going to suck because leveling is just a fancy grind with their silly dynamic events and the dungeons are just a grind too with fancy stories and mechanics and the world boss events are just fancy grinds too bah this game is going to suck amirite but I'll give it a shot. *rollseyes*
    hi troll
    you should get informed before you leave comments like that. There are many threads in this forum for you.
    e.g.

    mass info for newbies
    false assumptions


  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by epheaya View Post
    I don't understand why people are hyping up this dynamic event thing so much. I always thought they looked like Public Quests before, but the example he gave is _exactly_ what happens in Rift and, just like Warhammer, the events weren't much fun after the tenth time doing them, especially when you're a newbie trying to level up and the local city is overrun by monsters you can't kill.
    - Dynamic event scale to the number to players participating
    - You can't farm a dynamic event unless you wait until they respawn; you might be waiting for a long time
    - Can't say anything for Rift but Warhammer's PQs are not the same thing, it failed in practice because of the reliance on the holy trinity, you needed a tank and/or healer to complete the final stages. Also if you failed the event and just left out of frustration there are no consequences to your actions, losing the town to a hoard of zombies for example, the event will eventually just reset and start at stage 1 again.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    hi troll
    you should get informed before you leave comments like that. There are many threads in this forum for you.
    e.g.

    mass info for newbies
    false assumptions

    Lmao did you even read the guy I quoted? I was being a smartass. Could you really not sift through my protective complex algorithmic code of sarcasm?

  11. #31
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by epheaya View Post
    I don't understand why people are hyping up this dynamic event thing so much. I always thought they looked like Public Quests before, but the example he gave is _exactly_ what happens in Rift and, just like Warhammer, the events weren't much fun after the tenth time doing them, especially when you're a newbie trying to level up and the local city is overrun by monsters you can't kill.
    Except in guild wars the Dynamic events are your main content for leveling, in rift you still had to do quests to level, the rifts were really just something that got in your way that prevented questing.
    Claymore is Epic again, eat it priscilla fanboys.

  12. #32
    Does anyone know how exactly the game decides how many players are "participating" in the event? Is it just anyone who is within the area? If everyone leaves the area, are the enemies instantly downgraded so the remaining person/people can successfully complete the objective?

    It certainly sounds like a neat system, but I can definitely see it running into problems when I want to log in to maybe do a specific thing in a specific area and find out I can't because of world events.

    EDIT: Also, will the events themselves be random, or will it run into a situation where these zombies are always attacking this fortress, or a small list of situations where it cycles through?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Newbryn View Post
    Except in guild wars the Dynamic events are your main content for leveling, in rift you still had to do quests to level, the rifts were really just something that got in your way that prevented questing.
    Exactly. PQs and Rifts were half baked concepts that were tacked onto the standard questing model so the devs could use it as a bullet point on the box to make their game stand out against WoW. Dynamic Events have been built from the ground up as THE leveling content in the game and the entire game is built around this single system.

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    furthermore events have positive and negative consequences. It's not like a quest. When you fail, you won't be allowed to try it again at this moment. Other events will start and take you through the map.

    e.g: the enemy has taken a village, because you weren't able to stop the invaders in time. So the enemy builds up his troups, creates defences and sends out snipers to kill friendly NPCs in the surrounding area.
    new events kick in:
    -) you will have to stop the snipers
    -) you will have to destroy the enemies supply lines
    -) you will have to free some imprisoned allies
    etc.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rouge Master 9000 View Post
    I guess GW2 is going to suck because leveling is just a fancy grind with their silly dynamic events and the dungeons are just a grind too with fancy stories and mechanics and the world boss events are just fancy grinds too bah this game is going to suck amirite but I'll give it a shot. *rollseyes*
    You can roll your eyes all you want, but you know exactly what I'm saying. A game can still be fun with a grind, I loved WoW, but I'm not going to hail the same system with a little more fluff as a revolution. That in no way means I can't enjoy the game or that I'm somehow contradicting myself. So maybe you should save the smart-ass remarks for times when it makes sense.

  16. #36
    Pandaren Monk Maarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by javen View Post
    Does anyone know how exactly the game decides how many players are "participating" in the event? Is it just anyone who is within the area? If everyone leaves the area, are the enemies instantly downgraded so the remaining person/people can successfully complete the objective?

    It certainly sounds like a neat system, but I can definitely see it running into problems when I want to log in to maybe do a specific thing in a specific area and find out I can't because of world events.

    EDIT: Also, will the events themselves be random, or will it run into a situation where these zombies are always attacking this fortress, or a small list of situations where it cycles through?
    you are actively participating if you
    -) do a certain amount of damage to the specific enemies
    -) resurrect allies
    -) support your friends

    it can't be griefed:
    -) if you come by and play bad --> you won't do enough damage to make the event scale up
    -) if you come by and play really bad (but do damage) --> you will die from enemy attacks --> death players don't count as participating


    You won't have to do certain events, events don't have this specific reward. They give you karma, experience and gold as reward. With karma you can then buy your rewards from certain vendors.

    those vendors are often in critical locations. Like villages which can be overrun by eventchains. So if you fail in the event, the vendor gets killed and there is no other way to get your reward from this guy.
    Last edited by Maarius; 2012-01-22 at 07:37 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Keadin84 View Post
    You can roll your eyes all you want, but you know exactly what I'm saying. A game can still be fun with a grind, I loved WoW, but I'm not going to hail the same system with a little more fluff as a revolution. That in no way means I can't enjoy the game or that I'm somehow contradicting myself. So maybe you should save the smart-ass remarks for times when it makes sense.
    But.. it is revolutionary, whether you deem it to be or not.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by omlech View Post
    Exactly. PQs and Rifts were half baked concepts that were tacked onto the standard questing model so the devs could use it as a bullet point on the box to make their game stand out against WoW. Dynamic Events have been built from the ground up as THE leveling content in the game and the entire game is built around this single system.
    You are misunderstanding the concepts behind PQs and Rifts. Neither was suppose to be a sole questing path.

    PQs in Warhammer had the intention of being gathering points leading to PVP. As PVE was threadbare and not the focus it allowed Mythic to set distinct gear thresholds as reward between PVP lakes.

    Rifts are also not a sole means of questing. Trion specifically want players to not spend much time leveling as the bulk of content is intended for level 50s- where open world DEs and rifts do matter [& are significant]. Having rifts open during the leveling experience was more of a way to situate players with the concept and provide even quicker xp gains- xp vials and boost are the standard now in Rift. You are expressly not meant to wallow as a level 23 in Rift.

    GW2 uses their DEs as a questing scheme but that was not the intention of the above two mention games.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Maarius View Post
    you are actively participating if you
    -) do a certain amount of damage to the specific enemies
    -) resurrect allies
    -) support your friends

    it can't be griefed:
    -) if you come by and play bad --> you won't do enough damage to make the event scale up
    -) if you come by and play really bad (but do damage) --> you will die from enemy attacks --> death players don't count as participating
    Something I've kind of wondered is whether or not dead will be dead. What I mean by that is if you go down and no other player rescues you, or you fail in getting back up yourself, can you just run back to the event and start participating again or are you locked out of that particular event until it concludes or a certain amount of time passes? Apologies if it's in the sticky and I missed it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    I'm keeping myself informed about GW2, as I'll very likely play it. This is indeed revolutionary and awesome. However - and I know it's not the topic at hand - the fact that gear is pretty much of cosmetic value and levels kind of meaningless, really throws me off. I love a lot of the features this game's going to bring to the table, but a couple of them are really discouraging me from trying it. Some aspects, like the ones I mentioned, seem so different or completely not there from what I envision as basic MMORPG requirements, that make me wonder if I'll like it or not. I'm gonna stay off the hype train, as I don't want to be disappointed (I'm not disputing the fact that some people actually love those features, but they're not for me).

    Nevertheless, I think it's going to be a great game.
    Pretty sure WAR did stuff like this beforehand with PQs.

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