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  1. #21
    The Patient Silza's Avatar
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    Still the same thing. As after a while you will know what to do to get to step X to do boss X and bring class X.

  2. #22
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    I like that people stating they need raids in order to be competitive, those people will fall on their faces when they see how hard Explorable dungeons really are.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  3. #23
    @Freehoof: You're assuming it's a technological problem, when it's a social problem. No amount of technological innovation will fix the fact that the USERS are the problem. In the end, you can either give the users what they want, or die along with many other games that believed that they can "educate the users to like something that they do not like now".

    And it's those users that are the ones that will decide if game is commercially viable or not.

  4. #24
    Seriously, stop with this Hard-mode 5-man dungeons propaganda, guys. People want something that resembles a "raid" because they want to kill bosses, and do it with their guild. They do NOT want raids. They want larger scale guild PvE activities. 5 man dungeons are NOT a (proper) guild activity. Gathering in groups of 5 and going to different pubs each group is NOT a high-school class graduation meeting.

    And how hard is it to understand that some people CAN enjoy doing certain content with their guild ONLY. I'm sorry, but I don't believe in the fairy tale that, you see, in WoW/MMO A/B/C/D/random forums/random blogs/random non-mmo games the amount of idiots is unbelievably high, and GW2 will be the 'bastion of sanity', the place where any idiot will be purged by the holy fire, dare he even buy the game, and he will be denied access to even installing it. This is the internet. Everyone knows what cool features it has and what becomes of people once they sit anonymously behind a monitor. And playing 9 times with idiots just for the sake of that sacred 10th time when you will meet nice people is not quite good of a trade-off for me. And guilds have this magical feature that I like most - they 'filter' people, or rather, gather people that have similar interests. Not only they allow me to play with like-minded people and avoid any form of retardness out there (as much as possible at least), but they also allow idiots to gather up and go do whatever idiotic activity they want together, away from me. Double benefit, hurray!


    Anyway, overuse of the word "idiot" in the post, somewhat intentional, for better picturing of the issue. Don't take it literally

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    5 man dungeons are NOT a (proper) guild activity.
    That depends entirely on the guild in question. People are looking for some that they consider "end game", not what a "proper" guild does.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    5 man dungeons are NOT a (proper) guild activity.

    It is once dungeons are actually very hard to do. And since you don't need specific tanks or healers, you can try them with any other 4 of your guild. You seem to think you don't need a guild when there are only 5 man dungeons and you assume you can just steamroll through every dungeon with a bunch of bad randoms.
    Guild Wars obviously still has guilds which can ''filter idiots'' as you put it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    People want something that resembles a "raid" because they want to kill bosses, and do it with their guild. They do NOT want raids.

    Guild Wars dungeons have bosses which can be killed. Guild Wars dungeons can be done by members of a guild. They are not raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    They want larger scale guild PvE activities.

    (Elite) DE's are larger scale guild PvE activities.

    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  7. #27
    @ Ghostrider
    I think you either didn't read my post, or didn't get my idea AT ALL...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    @ Ghostrider
    I think you either didn't read my post, or didn't get my idea AT ALL...
    Since I did read your post, I guess it is the latter. Care to explain?

    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    5 man dungeons are NOT a (proper) guild activity.

    It is once dungeons are actually very hard to do. And since you don't need specific tanks or healers, you can try them with any other 4 of your guild. You seem to think you don't need a guild when there are only 5 man dungeons and you assume you can just steamroll through every dungeon with a bunch of bad randoms.
    Guild Wars obviously still has guilds which can ''filter idiots'' as you put it.


    - 5 man dungeons are not guild activity because of the number of people involved, not because of the difficulty...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    People want something that resembles a "raid" because they want to kill bosses, and do it with their guild. They do NOT want raids.

    Guild Wars dungeons have bosses which can be killed. Guild Wars dungeons can be done by members of a guild. They are not raids.

    -read up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    They want larger scale guild PvE activities.

    (Elite) DE's are larger scale guild PvE activities.


    -read up...

    I've written all in the most simple way possible, I don't know how much more simple to present it so that people can understand it. :/

  10. #30
    Bloodsail Admiral Haggerty's Avatar
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    Just a minor point - as I understand it "Guild Wars" refers to some historical events in game lore...not that the game is about guilds waging war on each other.

  11. #31
    @Ruak
    If you want instanced PvE content for 10/25 players as a guild activity, then I think you are looking at the wrong game.

    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  12. #32
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Ghostrider, did you play GW1 before?

    GW1 had 2 instanced area's where people could go in with 12 players, the so called Deep and Urgoz Warren. I'd like to see area's like these come back as well. Nothing wrong with it.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    - 5 man dungeons are not guild activity because of the number of people involved, not because of the difficulty...
    IF this is your point then your qualification for a "Proper" guild activity is mearly your own subjective viewpoint. I have very fond memories of learning heroic dungeons in BC with the same 4 people before our guild of the time gained the numbers to field an extra raid to fit us in. Frankly those runs were just as satisfing and felt just as much a guild activity as when months later there were 25 of us in BT. You cant declare something a proper or improper guild event based on the number of participants as that ideal number is entirely dependent on the size of your guild, your goals, and your preferences. Not everybody will share your opinion and theirs are no less valid than your own.

    Who is John Galt?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    Ghostrider, did you play GW1 before?

    GW1 had 2 instanced area's where people could go in with 12 players, the so called Deep and Urgoz Warren. I'd like to see area's like these come back as well. Nothing wrong with it.
    Yes I do, and I'm aware of that. However, that is GW1 where the other dungeons/elite zones are mostly 8 player as well. This is about GW2, and I believe they only have plans for 5 man dungeons atm. I won't mind if they add area's for more players later on neither, there's nothing wrong with that like you said, but that's beside the point atm.

    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Merendel View Post
    IF this is your point then your qualification for a "Proper" guild activity is mearly your own subjective viewpoint. I have very fond memories of learning heroic dungeons in BC with the same 4 people before our guild of the time gained the numbers to field an extra raid to fit us in. Frankly those runs were just as satisfing and felt just as much a guild activity as when months later there were 25 of us in BT. You cant declare something a proper or improper guild event based on the number of participants as that ideal number is entirely dependent on the size of your guild, your goals, and your preferences. Not everybody will share your opinion and theirs are no less valid than your own.
    Don't know about you, but if I raid with 25 people, I do so because I like playing with them. If I don't like playing with them I'd just raid in a 10 man format. And if I like playing with them, playing isolated from the other 20 feels like an "incomplete" guild activity. A proper guild activity would mean involving as many as we can in playing together. If you don't care about the other 20 people you play with, then that's not my problem. Nothing subjective here.

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    Don't know about you, but if I raid with 25 people, I do so because I like playing with them. If I don't like playing with them I'd just raid in a 10 man format. And if I like playing with them, playing isolated from the other 20 feels like an "incomplete" guild activity. A proper guild activity would mean involving as many as we can in playing together. If you don't care about the other 20 people you play with, then that's not my problem. Nothing subjective here.
    what if someone likes playing with 4 other people? then a super difficult 5 man would be perfect for them
    The Original Ganksta

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durzlla View Post
    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Glytch View Post
    what if someone likes playing with 4 other people? then a super difficult 5 man would be perfect for them
    Then the 5-man dungeons are perfect for them, just like you said, so we're obviously not talking about such kind of guilds...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruak View Post
    Don't know about you, but if I raid with 25 people, I do so because I like playing with them. If I don't like playing with them I'd just raid in a 10 man format. And if I like playing with them, playing isolated from the other 20 feels like an "incomplete" guild activity. A proper guild activity would mean involving as many as we can in playing together. If you don't care about the other 20 people you play with, then that's not my problem. Nothing subjective here.
    If you like to do PvE content with a large group from your guild (or at least with more than 5), then you can do (elite) DE's as I said earlier. Yes, then there might be other players participating in the event as well. But if they're bad, they'll die and if they won't get ressed (which they won't if they die a lot) then they'll spawn outside the DE and the DE will scale down if I remember correctly. However, if they're good then they're only an addition to your guild group imo.
    If a proper guild activity means involving as many as you can in playing together then you can even form a group of 30-40 players if you like.

    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  19. #39
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostrider View Post
    Yes I do, and I'm aware of that. However, that is GW1 where the other dungeons/elite zones are mostly 8 player as well. This is about GW2, and I believe they only have plans for 5 man dungeons atm. I won't mind if they add area's for more players later on neither, there's nothing wrong with that like you said, but that's beside the point atm.
    It's not really besides the point though, when people say raids like area, they don't mean raids, atleast that's what I understand from it. They mean large content playable with more than 5 players, that's all they're saying.

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
    Vuug The Deceiver, Grash Gravebuilder, Asgaut Divine Soul, Lera Dreamstealer

  20. #40
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    How are they going to make DE hard? They said they want to cater to the casual player and allow them to be able to join a DE pug and be able to understand how to down a boss without much communication of course. Sounds like if a guild ever does a DE its going to be a cake walk.

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