Is it true?

[Zelk]

the lock should be demo for the 10% SP buff, and I think Unholy is better dps than frost for dks.The people saying your dps is abysmal are just exaggerating. You only need to do 25k to finish DS.

[Slanderize]

Okay, I've been feral cat through all these tiers, we're very casual, we don't clear anything but normal content really every tier.

In tier 11, me and the other "top DPS" were all doing 17-19k no gimmick type fights.
In tier 12 we started around the 21k mark or so, we ended up doing around 25-27k.. I think.. DPS, few fights we hit 30k on here and there, believe it's gimmicks.
Tier 13 the lowest fight I can think of anyone doing anything on is Hagara, where we're typically around anywhere from 21k to 29k, mostly because of shitty up time on the boss. Ultraxion we're hitting 30k+ DPS on the first three DPSers, which are feral/combat rogue/arcane mage.
Gimmick fights like Zon'Ozz we're hitting the 50k marks.

We've got ONE guy who does like, 20k DPS, and we bitch at him constantly. We've got a couple of guys doing 25k-26k DPS that should be doing more.

There is no way you should be topping meters the way you are. None whatsoever. You've got good skills, but the rest of your guild is lacking, and it'll fucking show come Blackhorn. Lmao, trust me. That's what got us bitching at the 18k-20k DPSer.

[Deleted]

I bring up the issue every raid night. I brought it up and the raid leader called me out for being too picky and said we need to learn the fight before we worry about that. I guess that's true but when the numbers are that low I feel they should drop the casual face and take a more serious look at it.

Everybody has the right to play wow as hardcore or as casually as they like. You seem to find yourself in one of the bottom 0.01% guilds on the casual => hardcore scale. If your GM & guild is happy with raiding and progression as it is, they are free to make this choice. From past experience... dont push too much on guildies or GM to try to get them to improve their game... They're clearly complete casuals, they dont want to hear and aren't interested in hearing they're not putting out the numbers their class is supposed to.

All other nonsense aside, this is what it comes down to: you can either accept you're in a completely casual guild and forget about progression or what numbers other people are doing, or you need to find yourself a guild that takes raiding a bit more seriously.

[Senistian]

yeah I play a frost dk part time, 383ilvl and in 10's on ultrax I pull between 29-34k depending on procs. my lowest was 26 and thats because I messed up. We have 2 mages, 1 fire 1 arcane, the fire mage never goes below 34k with a 390 ilvl, arcane sits around 28. spriest is low and I can't really comment on the lock since we haven't had one in our raid for quite some time. it is true that unholy can pull more dps then frost but it is a more complicated system and requires some getting used to.

[Deleted]

People have been saying lately that if your raids top DPS is a hunter or a frost mage that your raid sucks.

Is this really true?

I'm a surv hunter at 387 ilvl and I consistently do 25-30k (depending on fight and procs 44k on zonozz).
However,
I'm also the top dps in my raid consisting of
firemage 24-28k 390ilvl
shadow priest 20k 391ilvl
frost dk 20k 389ilvl
destro lock 22k 387 ilvl

none of our casters have the legendary. so is the saying true? or does it only apply to legendary holders?

For your lock:
With legendary on our first kill back in december (around 385 ilvl) as a Destro lock I did 34k. And I even died near the end.
Legendary is only 7 to 10% increase so even without I was pulling 30k+ easy. Now with 393 ilvl (mostly valors, lfr and a rare few normal drops)) I do about 38-39k on our Heroic kills. Again, that's easy 35k if I didn't have legendary.

Oh and for the advice of forcing your lock to switch specs: although lock specs are equal roughly, you guys are missing +10% spellpower buff so if he would go Demon he would improve his own and the raids dps significantly.
Demon is hard to get into though. Let him practice on dummies first, then get his act together in heroics and lfr before jumping in your regular raid.

No it isn't a troll post, and we have only had about 10 attempts on him. Our tanks mostly figuring out how to time CD's and taunts for HoT and FL. But I honestly was wondering if that is where they should be minus legendary.

Honestly, the only people we've had that did lower then 30k on Ultra were either heavily undergeared (ilvl 380 or lower), died halfway or were alts (less skill, also less gear normally). Perhaps post some logs in appropriate forums to see where your guildies can improve on. I wouldn't be surprised if they were slacking off or just made big mistakes.

[thewallofsleep]

I agree with Earthlady. I am barely raid geared on my frost DK (376 ilvl I think). I have a crappy trinket and a crappy off hand weapon (353 mace from ZA/ZG). I still manage to pull 20k-24k DPS on LFR, sometimes even a little bit more depending on the fight. Surprisingly I'm usually in the top 3 DPS on LFR. I'm a really casual player these days and have only completed LFR twice and done almost no other raiding in Cata at all. I don't know if I'm relatively good at my frost DK, the people in LFR just suck horribly and have shitty gear, or if the LFR people just aren't trying.

[Deleted]

Not to sound rude or anything but your raid dps is way too low for their gear. My Bear tank does more dps than your raid dps

[chevvy]

Yes, the saying is true.
I would say try pugging DS for one week, I'm sure it will be more effective...

[Krunsh]

Alright but how do I go about it without alienating them since I do loot tier and items from the raid?

[Deleted]

Alright but how do I go about it without alienating them since I do loot tier and items from the raid?

Go about what? Leaving your current guild?

Tell your GM you're quiting the guild because you want to progress further and that it's clearly not gonna happen in your current guild, then type /gquit.

[Bianconeri]

You just need to tell them that it's so easy for them to be so much better than they are right now, they will enjoy the game waaaaay more once they start being good. It doesn't take a lot of effort. Ultraxion is all about DPS and nothing but DPS, yes you have fading light and hour but those are just to check if there is a live human playing. I'm sure you can stay in your guild and have progress, they just need to learn some very simple things.

[Deleted]

Oh and for the advice of forcing your lock to switch specs: although lock specs are equal roughly, you guys are missing +10% spellpower buff so if he would go Demon he would improve his own and the raids dps significantly.
Demon is hard to get into though. Let him practice on dummies first, then get his act together in heroics and lfr before jumping in your regular raid..

Wait..what..huh ?
Demo is harder then destro ?!?
If he can play destro good(which isnt really the case...but) he should be able to learn demo extremely easy...

And for the people saying destro is subpar affil/demo....demo under perfect conditions(which ultra pretty much is) demo wins, but single target, with some moving and no adds...not so much...

[Fojos]

duno if this is a troll post but if u guys cant kill normal ultraxion in time u need to replace the low dps.. demo locks are one of the highest parsing classes and yet hes playing loldestro doing 10-18k.. if your recounts screwed up jus try resetting it.

Destruction is higher single-target DPS, thanks.

[Mohammed]

While we're at it, what you think about my raid's dps? Class-ilvl-last Ultraxion parse

Combat Rogue 394 40704
Demo Lock 391 24021
Fury Warrior 393 35616
Frost DK 393 28665
MM Hunter 392 30018
Fire Mage 394 26460

[DominianEu]

With 3 healers and two tanks you need 27k average if tanks pull 10k each. (they most likley can go abit higher) With 2 healers the amount drops to 25k, this is for 10 man.

If your healers can two heal Ultraxion and Madness you do have enough dps for DS normal, you will hit a brick wall extremley hard after Morchok HC. But like people said with the time DS have been out and all the 384 and 378 gear around there should be no problem reaching 25k at all atm.

Low dps will make Blackhorn, Spine and Madness alot harder then its needed to be. Be careful when you read numbers from others who are comparing it from LFR etc. I do 60k dps on Madness LFR, but only 42k on Madness normal. Also pushing dps is alot easier if you drop what your supposed to do like you often can in better raids. (since only a few players are needed for a certain task.)

[Deleted]

I've edited your post in the quote to show the real numbers your raid should be pulling (also feel free to kick that destro dude, unless you have a stance of 'everyone should play what he likes' - warlocks should be affli/demo in t13)

I would be just as patronising as you but FYI....all 3 warlock specs are competitive in this current tier

[DominianEu]

I think you dont need to be an expert to figure out that your lock, dk and mage are underperforming compared to the rest. Our hunter pulls alot higher numbers but she is 397.

[Darkfriend]

Decide what your goals are. Do you want to progress or play with friends? Then take an honest look at how good you really are, or how good you could be if you were to raid with a better group, and put time into being better. Do you want to make the effort? Sure, you may be the best in that raid group, but are you good enough to raid with a progression guild? Think about that next. Then consider what you'd have to do to find a guild, does your server have one you could go to, would you need to server xfer? All things to consider. I left the guild i started raiding with because they didn't need a 3rd warrior, and I don't regret it one bit.

[Harsesis]

To the people saying "lol destro" open your eyes. Destro is perfectly viable and even beats affliction on some fights. Afflic and destro are withing a couple hundred dps of eachother on a patchwerk fight and on a fight like H Zon'ozz where you need burst and you can put Havoc up destro destroys afflic. Also, destro bring so much more raid utility than afflic. But like others have said the raid dps is very low.

[Pikevinge]

Alright but how do I go about it without alienating them since I do loot tier and items from the raid?

Yeah, I was in the same situation once. You just need to tell your GM that the raiding isn't working out for you and you want to be in a guild that can progress more. Don't give in if he/she trys to convince you that they can "do better."