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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    It doesnt matter what France thinks alone because they gave the Armenians the weapons but Turkey has enough allies and brother countries who dont accept it as a genocide and where you dont go to jail because you have an different oppinion

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    Oh god I absolutely HATE when people bring this up. The emperor and the Japanese were the most despicable and vile things next to Hitler. Sure the Russians killed the most, but they didn't freeze people's limbs and bash them to see if they could shatter.
    Again, the info. comes from the victor. Victors will never consider himself bad. Its same for all nations, not just Americans. As you said, japanese were as bad as hitler, but its opinion. Is there any actual measuring stick or something to make it fact. Opinions and facts of victors and losers are never to be trusted. We need third party source for that.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Sorry I was out of line
    Edited it.


    yea I dont mind people saying it, to me they are automatically neo-nazis, mentally ill or never went a day to school if they say that.
    Just another reason for me to move along, unless they would be neo-nazis. Then it is a good reason to pick the fight with them and at least try to get them to understand how fucked up believes they got.
    You are a good goyim.

    Definitely take the line of someone must be neo-nazi, mentally ill, or never went to school.

    That way you don't have to argue over the facts.

    You are a good goyim.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by openair View Post
    I agree censorship of opinion is a step in the wrong direction. But in todays world of anyone can make their thoughts known, anonymity, and people who enjoy spreading misinformation (trolling, editting sites like wikipedia purposely with misinformation) i think laws upholding unarguable FACT are very much a step in the right direction.



    As a "view point" your view would be that the events do not constitute or deserve being labeled 'geneocide.' That is a view point.

    Denying the events ever took place is not a view point. That is denying FACT.
    Cool, man. But why is denying fact a crime? People should believe in whatever and just talk it out. That's the most healthy way of going about it. Using the government to solve your own deep differences is not going to accomplish much besides make everyone even more upset.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    you're wrong on that one. Armanians tried European Court of Human Rights around 2004(may be wrong) and guess what they failed. I'm not trying to create a discussion about this subject which is very deep and intense but even ECHR can't say there is a genocide so things are not clear as you people claim. Armanians died(as well as Turks) no one denies that however was it a genocide that's hard to answer.
    Hm tried to read on up that after you posted. I cant find anything, I found stuff on recent crimes a few years back that they brought before the court but the old genocide?


    Human Rights Court Rules Turkey Cannot Criminalize Genocide Recognition


    Prof. Taner Akcam
    STRASBOURG—The European Court of Human Rights on Tuesday unanimously ruled that the recognition of the Armenian Genocide cannot be criminalized in Turkey. The verdict stemmed from a case brought to the court by noted scholar Taner Akcam.

    That is the case you are referring to?
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-01-25 at 10:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Like said before, I am in Boston this week and if you are the big man you claim to be, come visit me. I'll PM you the hotel and room number. Let's see if you are such a hero in real life too, like you claim to be.
    [WoT] WN8: 2,219 WR: 59% [WoT]

  6. #46
    Scarab Lord Nivis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    A new french law now criminalizes denial of the Armenian genocide. Lets hope more countries follow suit! No genocide should ever be ignored
    The funny thing is, the turkish foreign minister "threatened" France with sanctions if they'd vote in the law.
    I mean - come on...that's hilarious.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by NewOrleansTrolley View Post
    Am I the only person who thinks it's fundamentally wrong to criminalize having a view point? I just don't get it.

    Sure, denying it is dumb. But criminalizing it..? Really?
    It is wrong. If this is right then every country can criminalize apostate etc

  8. #48
    I didn't realize that the Armenian genocide in France was such a huge problem that they had to actually decide whether or not the denial of it was something that they needed to discuss debate and ulitmatley decide that yes denial of it is such a major problem that we need to pass laws regarding this

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donax View Post
    I didn't realize that the Armenian genocide in France was such a huge problem that they had to actually decide whether or not the denial of it was something that they needed to discuss debate and ulitmatley decide that yes denial of it is such a major problem that we need to pass laws regarding this
    Denial is a problem everywhere. France is just being progressive on this topic.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Donax View Post
    I didn't realize that the Armenian genocide in France was such a huge problem that they had to actually decide whether or not the denial of it was something that they needed to discuss debate and ulitmatley decide that yes denial of it is such a major problem that we need to pass laws regarding this
    Valid if it was not for the fact that the holocaust is already criminal to deny. This is why it had to get added or it would have been hipocrasy.
    Quote Originally Posted by TooMuch View Post
    Like said before, I am in Boston this week and if you are the big man you claim to be, come visit me. I'll PM you the hotel and room number. Let's see if you are such a hero in real life too, like you claim to be.
    [WoT] WN8: 2,219 WR: 59% [WoT]

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Hm tried to read on up that after you posted. I cant find anything, I found stuff on recent crimes a few years back that they brought before the court but the old genocide?
    I'm %100 sure Armenian Diaspora tried their chance with Court and failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Hm tried to read on up that after you posted. I cant find anything, I found stuff on recent crimes a few years back that they brought before the court but the old genocide?


    Human Rights Court Rules Turkey Cannot Criminalize Genocide Recognition


    Prof. Taner Akcam
    STRASBOURG—The European Court of Human Rights on Tuesday unanimously ruled that the recognition of the Armenian Genocide cannot be criminalized in Turkey. The verdict stemmed from a case brought to the court by noted scholar Taner Akcam.

    That is the case you are referring to?
    yep this one, I guess.

    --edit--
    you know that the same physical evidences(with your words) shown the court and yet they still failed. It's a win for Turkey in terms of law.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-01-25 at 10:52 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by NewOrleansTrolley View Post
    Cool, man. But why is denying fact a crime? People should believe in whatever and just talk it out. That's the most healthy way of going about it. Using the government to solve your own deep differences is not going to accomplish much besides make everyone even more upset.
    Because you cannot have a true healthly discussion when one side denies the existance of phyiscal evidence... when one sides argument is purely "the rock never existed" while the rock is right there.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by openair View Post
    Because you cannot have a true healthly discussion when one side denies the existance of phyiscal evidence...
    So we should criminalize religion then.

    You can't really have a healthy discussion when when side(religion) denies the existence of physical evidence.

  14. #54
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    They dont even go to the UN because they know that the UN will say that its not a genocide and they say this genocide thing because they think turkey will give them money and terrytories but i say they can dream on because it will never happen

  15. #55
    Mechagnome Mengucekli's Avatar
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    France invaded Algeria in 1830 and it remained under French rule until independence in 1962. n 1957 the International Red Cross disclosed the widespread use of torture by the french army and police against thousands of Algerians. After that, information about the french treatment of Algerians became available to the wider public. The torture techniques used by the french included electricity applied to the most sensitive parts of the body, near drowning in water, sodomy with glass and wood objects, hanging by the feet and hands, and burning with cigarettes. Here is a picture of a raped teen age girl, as a trophy pose:

    Approximately 1.5 million Algerian Muslim Arabs were tortured and massacred under the french rule. According to the Algerian sources 1.5 million are dead.

    Here is a video of unarmed civilians being shot by french soldiers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7Fmq7RIGjA8

    Yeah, right, i wonder when French will recognise their own genocides? Uhh, maybe never? And what?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by openair View Post
    Because you cannot have a true healthly discussion when one side denies the existance of phyiscal evidence...
    So, then leave it be? Everything is interpretable, and while some views may seem harsh or drastic, it's their fucking viewpoint and let it be. You aren't going to change anything by throwing them in prison.
    -You are now breathing manually-

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by openair View Post
    Because you cannot have a true healthly discussion when one side denies the existance of phyiscal evidence... when one sides argument is purely "the rock never existed" while the rock is right there.
    Because of nature of the crime, the physical evidence has to be a lot and have to from different incidents (not just many evidence of one single incident). No ones denying armenians were not killed. By the way, turks also died there. The problem is deciding is it genocide..

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    So, then leave it be? Everything is interpretable, and while some views may seem harsh or drastic, it's their fucking viewpoint and let it be. You aren't going to change anything by throwing them in prison.
    Yes you are. You'll change the fact they can't go out in public and perpetuate repugnant and inflamatory views.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Illuminance View Post
    Denial is a problem everywhere. France is just being progressive on this topic.
    I'm not saying denial isn't a problem I'm just wondering how many there are actively pursuing that it didn't happen that such laws would be needed.

    To me this is like making it a law that denial of a round earth is illegal. Most rational people know its round but there are some fringe groups that think it's flat but I don't think it warrants a law


    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Valid if it was not for the fact that the holocaust is already criminal to deny. This is why it had to get added or it would have been hipocrasy.
    Again does making a law denying the holocaust actually change peoples minds on if it happened or not. There are still going to be people that deny it maybe not outright but still believe

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by openair View Post
    Because you cannot have a true healthly discussion when one side denies the existance of phyiscal evidence... when one sides argument is purely "the rock never existed" while the rock is right there.
    You can't have a debate either if one sides gets put to jail before he can even use his evidence.

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