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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    Turks and the natives of the region killed each other in wars, no one is faulting anyone for doing that.

    But only the Turks engaged is a systematic effort to exterminate or drive out their minorities.

    False equivocation ftl.
    That's your opinion, however, it's not a fact. If you check previous pages, a user posted some articles(written by american historicians) stating that it was nota genocide. I wonder which physical proofs(!) you're basing your "opinion".

    It's funny that no one could answer back to that guy because most of you just writing something just because you saw it on TV!

    Whole world can shout that it was genocide but only Turkey will decide it which I'm so glad.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-01-27 at 11:53 PM.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    That's your opinion, however, it's not a fact. If you check previous pages, a user posted some articles(written by american historicians) stating that it was nota genocide. I wonder which physical proofs(!) you're basing your "opinion".

    It's funny that no one could answer back to that guy because most of you just writing something just because you saw it on TV!

    Whole world can shout that it was genocide but only Turkey will decide it which I'm so glad.
    I listed plenty of parties that recognize it, including a world-wide group of scholars who have no interest in the issue one way or another. Turkey had a reason to deny it of course, they can't be fair in their denial.

    Then again, considering Turkey's barbaric human rights record, and the fact that EVERY ethnic and religious minority in Turkey has been oppressed or butchered at some point, Turkey's true colors are pretty clear.

  3. #243
    World is going to believe an unproven genocide.Lots of lobbying lots of bribing unending propagand,whining,insincere ceremonies etc.
    Many people say ''denying a genocide is dumb..'' but its not only we Turks deny it.It is also being denied by countless professors,historians and nations.Armenians using these tools so often ''..their denial..'',''...a normal actions of deniers..'',''...they say like that because of their denial propagand..''.As i said its an unproven genocide unlike the holocaust.So why we should admit it as genocide?Which nation would admit a genocide that is actually not a genocide or unproven?
    Turkish government called Armenian government to start a complete research about the event in 1915.Our government said,let both Turkish and Armenian historians work together,as well as many historian from all around the world,they should research objectively if it was a genocide or not.Armenian government strongly opposes this research invitation and guess what,they say ''...this is also your denial propagand...''.
    Propagand winning over truth nowadays but truth can not be hidden forever.Maybe it was really a genocide maybe it was not.I have strong reasons to believe that it was not a genocide but after a complete research historians may agree on that it was a genocide.On that day,i also will stop denying the Armenian genocide.If historians prove that it wasnt a genocide i dont think Armenians stop whining and admit that it was a part of war and not a genocide.
    Armenians are the far most racist nation in the world,if you really really know some of them you would see that.Do not let propagand blind you,do not let Armenians' christendom card effect you and do not blinded by your hatred on Turkish nation.This issue must be examined objectively.

  4. #244
    It's funny how many replies, almost all with broken English and low post counts, pop up denying the genocide and making ethnic slurs against Armenians.

    I'm guessing a Turkish poster's got a bunch of his friends (or Turkish sock puppets with giant mustaches) to get in here and defend Turkey's abuse of every ethnic and religious minority.

  5. #245
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    It is really hard to defend the enormous ammount of civilians dead in such a limited area as "part of a war".
    We are talking millions of dead civilians.

    Turkey's history does not help either, even today one can only cry about how they treat minorities, dissdents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  6. #246
    France and other countries need to keep their noses outside things they are not even close to or involved in it.
    if people are talking about mass murders. France should come up n tell the world what they have done.
    Since people are just posting wiki leaks go there and read some of the mass murders done by other major Nations.

    its useless talking to people here. No matter what the Turks will write you wont believe our facts.

  7. #247
    The Insane Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kckttk View Post
    France and other countries need to keep their noses outside things they are not even close to or involved in it.
    if people are talking about mass murders. France should come up n tell the world what they have done.
    Since people are just posting wiki leaks go there and read some of the mass murders done by other major Nations.

    its useless talking to people here. No matter what the Turks will write you wont believe our facts.
    France were assholes in primarily Indochina and Algeria but I am always amazed how you turks keep saying that two wrongs make one right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    I listed plenty of parties that recognize it, including a world-wide group of scholars who have no interest in the issue one way or another. Turkey had a reason to deny it of course, they can't be fair in their denial.

    Then again, considering Turkey's barbaric human rights record, and the fact that EVERY ethnic and religious minority in Turkey has been oppressed or butchered at some point, Turkey's true colors are pretty clear.
    You just believe what you want to believe, I don't blame you but it's kinda sad. Also you know that we didn't put the guys who made a website to apologize from Armenians for genocide to jail. General reaction was pretty angry but at least they said what they wanted to say and didn't go jail.

    Quote Originally Posted by atsawin26 View Post
    It's funny how many replies, almost all with broken English and low post counts, pop up denying the genocide and making ethnic slurs against Armenians.

    I'm guessing a Turkish poster's got a bunch of his friends (or Turkish sock puppets with giant mustaches) to get in here and defend Turkey's abuse of every ethnic and religious minority.
    That's a bad guess. You're measurement of truth based on english grammar and post count...now that's interesting.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2012-01-28 at 01:41 PM.

  9. #249
    I'm not sure if it's been said, but the only proper way to fight speech is with MORE speech. Censorship is never OK.

  10. #250

    meh

    As a turkish dude interested in history I'd like to say a thing or two. First of all, I do not completely deny the armenian genocide. I think that something really, really horrid happened to them. In my knowledge of the matter, I will try to explain the situation. I'd like to start with the fact that I'm no patriot and I'm not muslim.

    As you may know, the beginning of the fall of the Ottoman Empire was the 17th century. The Ottoman Empire was a pretty big one. Empire means a lot of nations so there was a lot of ethnic groups in the Ottoman Empire. In comparison to what european countries did in the lands they conquered, the minorities weren't treated badly. They would pay some extra taxes if they weren't muslims, and they could just change that situation by being muslim on the paper, pretending and they weren't allowed to work for the government. Although the converted minorities were the vast majority in the chain of command, because the turkish people were quite greedy and the converted minorities were much more loyal to the system.

    Empire means a lot of nations. With the french revolution, nationalism affected the globe, which messed the empires up quite badly. Because nationalism means owning your own country with your nation. That said, the end of the Ottoman Empire was foreseeable. Well, with the revolution nationalist riots happened, ottomans tried to give the minorities more rights, and there was a time where the minorities had more rights than the turks, which caused another turkish riot.

    The Ottoman Empire was weak but still a pretty big one. So the imperialist countries tried 'divide and conquer'. Nationalism was the best instrument to do so. So they started and supplemented nationalist riots, conquered some of the ottoman lands to create theirselves new markets.

    I'm getting to the point. The Ottoman Empire was weak when they joined the WW1 with the germans. And the riots didn't end. So while at war, they decided to banish the armenians to solve further problems with them. The problematic starts right here. In my knowledge, they were treated badly on the road, they suffered bad illnesses and a lot of them died. But in that case, bad treatment is not a cover for setting people on fire or making soap out of them like Hitler did. They weren't supported, they got beaten if they caused problems on the way. They suffered famine and such.

    There are some official numbers concerning the situation. Armenians say 2.000.000, Turkish government say 20.000. I think it was around 150.000. These are pretty big numbers and armenians deserve an apology for that but that is not a genocide in my opinion, because it simply doesn't fit in the content. There are examples of genocides and they are nothing like this. See Holocaust or what the spanish soldiers did to american natives.

    What's next, I don't think that this is just a matter of human rights about the whole world concerning about armenians. That is something used against us as a big pressure. Do you know what does accepting a genocide means? Loads of money of apology -in terms of billions-, even more pressure that can be used against the country.

    And furthermore. They were ottomans. I am NOT ottoman. I am a citizen of the Turkish Republic, founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. There are some nutjobs who claim they are ottoman, but they are just fucking extremists who do not know a single thing about their past. I know that sounded a little patriotic but believe me I am not. Patriots would beat me to death if they saw how much i favor the liberal system, the money, how I don't believe in military and such.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by kckttk View Post
    France and other countries need to keep their noses outside things they are not even close to or involved in it.
    if people are talking about mass murders. France should come up n tell the world what they have done.
    Since people are just posting wiki leaks go there and read some of the mass murders done by other major Nations.

    its useless talking to people here. No matter what the Turks will write you wont believe our facts.
    Turkey wants to join the EU. Untill they recognise what they prepetrated, they never will.
    France never committed genocide. Indochina and Algeria weren't pretty, and France recognises that (no war ever is let's be honest), but those conflicts however brutal, were not genocide with the sole intention of wiping a culture of the face of the earth.

    No matter what we write, Turks won't believe our facts. Funny how that goes both ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    I'm just being a smart ass at this point.

  12. #252
    Why are they freaking out over something that happened nearly a century ago? (97 years).

    It's like if I was 89 and still harassed my best friend "Hey,you still owe me 25$ from 57 years ago!"

    Perhaps I'm missing the point.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcor View Post
    Why are they freaking out over something that happened nearly a century ago? (97 years).

    It's like if I was 89 and still harassed my best friend "Hey,you still owe me 25$ from 57 years ago!"

    Perhaps I'm missing the point.
    Part of keeping history from repeating itself is believe it or not, actually remembering it and know of it.
    That is why.

    Turkey wants to join the EU. Untill they recognise what they prepetrated, they never will.
    Also seems the union wont chicken out on this either, they are very firm on the matter.
    Personally I dont want to see any turks whatsoever in the union untill they do aknowledge it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealbinder View Post
    Genocide must be recognized and should never be ignored or denied. Those who deny the genocides of the world disgust me.
    Which is fine, but you shouldn't be allowed to force someone to speak as you wish. People will be judged by the way they conduct themselves, let the world have the people who deny genocide, but judge them as such.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomag View Post
    I don't remember Spain apologizing for the Inquisition nor slavery. Or was it a time frame on it ? Like "Oh, if it's older than 200 years, it's cool". Shouldn't this time frame be posted somewhere ?
    You do bring really bad arguments, you know that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    Did you read how US is trying to destabilize pacific (china-jap) area too? They are sending warships down there. We might be seeing a new military force being created out of those two nations that will counter NATO (with EASE)

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