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  1. #21
    I don't see myself saying there isn't any issue. I was simply saying too f'ing bad this isn't a PVP game. Suck it up and move on.

  2. #22
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Hero folk seem to be distancing themselves from TOR. They are all too eager now to point out that they had no interaction in the past 3 years. Seems like they would want to bask in as much glory as possible if their engine was even the basis for a game that performs correctly.
    Right that's what that means. If you actually went through that thread the president and coo had good things to say about swtor and BWs use of the engine. Oh well... I tried.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderSheephard View Post
    I did read it. I am still confused as to why my rig works when many others like it don't. I was more asking you, since you seem to have an understanding of the issue beyond my own, if you have any insight on why.
    No idea. That is the whole mystery. There does not seem to be any consistencies. PCs that should barely run it are having no isses and PCs that should blow it away are struggling, and some every place in between.

    Remember, this is the new version of a thread initially started during EGA on Dec 15th.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-25 at 05:51 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Right that's what that means. If you actually went through that thread the president and coo had good things to say about swtor and BWs use of the engine. Oh well... I tried.
    Sorry, but you are obviously biased.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Hero folk seem to be distancing themselves from TOR. They are all too eager now to point out that they had no interaction in the past 3 years. Seems like they would want to bask in as much glory as possible if their engine was even the basis for a game that performs correctly.
    More conspiracy theories...just keep them coming. Might want to try some facts rather than speculation and ancedotes.

  5. #25
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    No idea. That is the whole mystery. There does not seem to be any consistencies. PCs that should barely run it are having no isses and PCs that should blow it away are struggling, and some every place in between.

    Remember, this is the new version of a thread initially started during EGA on Dec 15th.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-25 at 05:51 PM ----------



    Sorry, but you are obviously biased.
    LoL. Your the one with the rig that can't play the game and I'm biased. Gotcha. Sorry but calling me biased is a tad hypocritical don't ya think?
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-01-25 at 11:56 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    LoL. Your the one with the rig that can't play the game and I'm biased. Gotcha.
    That feeling when a thread begins to lurch off the rails...
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  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderSheephard View Post
    That feeling when a thread begins to lurch off the rails...
    Agree.. another SWTOR thread derailed thank you all..

    Im going to leave it at this:

    A thread that started december 15th 2011 with over 100 000 replies. Has still to this day not had an official but simple confirmation. "Yes the game is not optimized well" They still have not said this.

    One thing i do know is this:

    This is not an incident anymore, and sayin: Ah well only 5% without any proof its not more or less is just as untrue as me saying its 50%. If it was only 5% it would have never become a 14 chapter thread with over 100 000 replies but okay.

    It is not an Incident:
    "An event which is not part of the standard operation of a service and which causes or may cause disruption to or a reduction in the quality of services and Customer productivity."
    This is a Problem (one that needs to be fixed by bioware because its no longer the fault of the customers. Since pretty much ever single thing has been tried from old graphic drivers to using XP as OS nothing helped).
    "A cause of one or more Incidents. The cause is not usually known at the time a Problem Record is created, and the Problem Management Process is responsible for further investigation."
    Last edited by schippie; 2012-01-26 at 12:14 AM.

  8. #28
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    Snip.....

    Schippie
    Yes the SWTOR process can utilize more than 2gig as I see it utilize close to 3 when Im running it. Now there is a second process, but this seems to be using very little system resources and I too am not sure what it is. But I can tell you this, it can very well be a client side anti-cheat and this is something BW would not disclose. Because EA backs it, I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if it was. If you play any BF games look at your running processes, you will see the BF process in addition to PunkbusterA and PunkbusterB. Punkbuster running multiple processes has nothing to do with resource limits or threading, at least as far as what is disclosed.

    I dont discredit some of what is being said in those posts, but I do have to disagree with the statement that the 32bit process is locked into 2gig as I know for a fact it is not when running in a 64bit environment.

  9. #29
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    This is not an incident anymore, and just sayin ah well only 5% without any proof its not more or less is just as untrue as me saying its 50%. If it was only 5% it would have never become a 14 chapter thread with over 100 000 replies but okay.
    It could have, one does not logically imply the other. I mean it could be 10% as well, people could just be repeating themselves and arguments could be going around. People could be offering advise, mods could jump in and ask for DXDIAG. People like me could post "hey look SR has a blog post coming out". Assuming that the 100,000 posts are all unique posters with unique sets of problems would still only lead to about 100,000 out of 1.68million. That's assuming that every single post is entirely a unique user with a problem, none of the posts are mods or trolls or people offering help. Fairly unlikely.

    The truth is we will likely never know how widespread the issues are with the game. Having said that I agree this should be a top priority for them to work on and even if their is no miracle fix I expect to see improvements coming down the pipeline shortly. We'll get a better idea of what exactly is up when that dev blog is released. Then again I biased apparently... go figure.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-01-26 at 12:20 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    Ah well only 5% without any proof its not more or less is just as untrue as me saying its 50%. If it was only 5% it would have never become a 14 chapter thread with over 100 000 replies but okay.
    Assuming 2mill copies sold...

    2,000,000 x .05 = 100,000.

    I'm just saying.
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  11. #31
    Iam the 5% "acording to bioware"

    My rig is decent I can trow anything at it and plays just fine except SWTOR, and my probleam isnt just in WZ, its everywhere.

    If I log on a planet its fine if I go travel arround between illum, fleet and flashpoints the disk led starts activate like crazy even after 5mins loading screens it means assets arent being properly cached, garbage collecting its barely happening or the game is memory leaking.

  12. #32
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    Schippie
    Yes the SWTOR process can utilize more than 2gig as I see it utilize close to 3 when Im running it. Now there is a second process, but this seems to be using very little system resources and I too am not sure what it is. But I can tell you this, it can very well be a client side anti-cheat and this is something BW would not disclose. Because EA backs it, I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if it was. If you play any BF games look at your running processes, you will see the BF process in addition to PunkbusterA and PunkbusterB. Punkbuster running multiple processes has nothing to do with resource limits or threading, at least as far as what is disclosed.

    I dont discredit some of what is being said in those posts, but I do have to disagree with the statement that the 32bit process is locked into 2gig as I know for a fact it is not when running in a 64bit environment.
    True in a 64 bit it isnt limited to the 2 gigs. On the other hand what do you define as small for the second process. Since the main is something like 900 and the second one is 200 or something (This was when i checked after the game crashed on a loading screen so otherwise i probably never would have noticed there where two processes running. Should check when its running normally on hoth.) Then again 200mb isnt that much i guess

    If it was 200 - 250 it only uses slightly more then chrome.exe with extensions they are both equal. That does make me wonder, if you are correct and its EA sniffing. Why is this process this large.. i mean wow has a similar tool build into it but i find it hard to believe that would also be 200+.
    Last edited by schippie; 2012-01-26 at 12:30 AM.

  13. #33
    Am I the only one who hates this "5%" tag that has been tossed around with this issue. It is sensationalism, and that is all.

    And yes, I am also having FPS problems in Warzones, have tried everything to fix it, and still nothing works. It MIGHT be that my system can't handle it, but I've seen people with far lesser systems running the game at higher settings with less FPS stuttering.

    I'm about to queue for some more Warzones, enjoying them because they are fun no matter what technical problems there are between my computer and the game.

    And I really hope they come up with a fix soon, but I never tried to get my hopes up for a "Miracle fix", because even as someone who has never done any programming ever, I know that miracle fixes are very few and far between.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Most technical issues are over blown due to the vocality of those afflicted by them. Ofc, there are folks with "horrible FPS" in warzones or that experience ability delay, but in most circumstances that is a minority compared to the folks who never have such issues.

    Guess I been extremely lucky, I rarely encounter massive technical issues in MMOs. Nothing really breaking for me yet since TOR went live.
    Oh hey! The problem doesn't affect you so naturally you don't think its a problem.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    Schippie, that second post you copied. If his assumptions are correct, it doesn't account for a 64bit OS which will allow a 32bit process to utilize up to 4gigs so his hypothesis would only work if we are discussing a 32bit environment exclusively. But people have this graphic issue on a wide range of systems.
    The process space for 32-bit processes is limited to 2GB by default UNLESS the LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE header is in place. With that header in place, you can utilise up to 3GB on a 32-bit system. On a 64-bit system, this header allows up to 4GB of memory to be addressed even if the application is 32-bit, but only if the header is in place.

    Now, this doesn't mean you can't address more than that amount of space without the header. It just means you can't do it with just one process.

    I've not got SWToR installed so i can't check personally, but i get the idea from a quick search that it is LAA enabled. This would lead me to believe that Bioware have really gone out of their way to offload onto a secondary process, possibly not realising that in fact, they have 3GB to go at on all systems. If i'm honest though, it seems more like they didn't put the required amount of work into the true technical side and instead just ripped off a "public" engine failing to realise the shortcomings.

    You can have all the graphic and 3D designers in the world but if you've not got a proper team of coders working at the real low level of the engine itself, you end up with a shitstorm of complaints about poor performance. To have the same issue from 5% of the playerbase is simply unacceptable. It's not like it's lots of different issues, where you could shrug it off as issues specific to an individual system, but the same technical issue for 1/20 players from a company as big as Bioware.

    This is one reason i don't go around nicking code from the web without knowing exactly what it does and trying out several different options to find which one suits me best. If you start doing that, you'll never track the issue down and suddenly, you're left with a piece of software that you just don't even understand. I'm not saying that's what Bioware, but it seems like rookie mistakes and silly choices from a company as experiences as they are.
    [...]

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    I've not got SWToR installed so i can't check personally, but i get the idea from a quick search that it is LAA enabled. This would lead me to believe that Bioware have really gone out of their way to offload onto a secondary process, possibly not realising that in fact, they have 3GB to go at on all systems. If i'm honest though, it seems more like they didn't put the required amount of work into the true technical side and instead just ripped off a "public" engine failing to realise the shortcomings.
    It is, it was one of the first things I went to check with CFF explorer, I remenbered this particular header in Oblivion and Fallout3 made a huge deal in smother gameplay.

    In Swtor on and off makes for me no diference at all, it consumes the same memory.

  17. #37
    I like man others had the FPS issues as well. I actually had an additional problem where my screen would freeze every minute or so for like 15 seconds. Randomly, that freezing was fixed in their new 1.1 patch. This told me it was not my machine, rather their game and engine. Will these problems be fixed? IDK. I do know they have said they are looking into these types of issues. I have unsubscribed for the time being, yesterday was my last day. I may come back in a few months when the game is straightened out, however, I have a feeling a lot of people will be gone by then but who knows. They just shouldnt have rushed this game out.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Beavis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaellen View Post
    Am I the only one who hates this "5%" tag that has been tossed around with this issue. It is sensationalism, and that is all.
    It's funny, I thought my performance was fine until I started reading these threads. I turned on the FPS doodad and sure enough my frame rate went from 40-50 fps to 15-20 in war zones and Ilum. I also started noticing the stuttering in fleet more. If I think about it, I suppose I noticed. But, I guess I just didn't really care. I remember playing Arathi Basin back in '06 with the clip plane so low that I could barely see black smith from farm. I guess I'm just willing to tolerate a certain level of crappy performance if the game is fun. Being old FTW, I guess. /shrug

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Roose View Post
    Stephen Reid acknowledged the "Horrid FPS" that many are getting in warzones and other areas of the game: "...don't expect a miracle solution I'm afraid." The thread is on the Nth go round now. I, like many others, can no longer post because of lack of sub, but there are still many with subs hoping to play all of the game with decent frame rates.

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=233714

    That is really too bad.
    I call it the Vangaurd problem, and I think BioWare/EA understate the problem as only 5% (if that's their number) for PR purposes. A simple survey of general chat in Ilum will tell you that. It's been so long and I can't find it, but there was all types of discussion on this type of Video performance issue back 5 or 6 years ago. Essentially, you have the people who will and can afford top end machines, can spend a few hundred for video card updates, etc. Then you have a significant number much greater than 5% who will have computers that are more than 2 or 3 years old, and are probably still good mid range machines. (edit: though this issues is not quite so black and white with TOR and the randomness of machines that can run it).

    When Vanguard came out they tried to make the graphics, at least they said they did, advanced enough the engine would be sufficient for years into the future--because gaming nerds like myself wanted better graphics because we had better computers. The problem of course is people with low end machines, mid range or whatever, can't enjoy the game. They effectively reduced their potential market base because of it, and this was well known.

    Another example of bad management choices when it comes to TOR. I like the game a lot too, and still have my sub.
    Last edited by Standing; 2012-01-26 at 05:26 AM.

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Supajayare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    It's funny, I thought my performance was fine until I started reading these threads. I turned on the FPS doodad and sure enough my frame rate went from 40-50 fps to 15-20 in war zones and Ilum. I also started noticing the stuttering in fleet more. If I think about it, I suppose I noticed. But, I guess I just didn't really care. I remember playing Arathi Basin back in '06 with the clip plane so low that I could barely see black smith from farm. I guess I'm just willing to tolerate a certain level of crappy performance if the game is fun. Being old FTW, I guess. /shrug
    Your lucky, I wish I ran Ilum at 15-20 fps.... myself? Try 5-7 fps, sometimes it goes all the way down to 2 or 3 and my rig is decent. Not top of the line now, but it was back in 2009, I can run games like BF3 and black ops at pretty smooth framerate at the highest settings, not to mention i just upgraded my vid card to a 560 GTXti 2 months ago for ToR. This really sucks for me, because Ilum was one of the main reasons why I was looking forward to ToR but these performance issues are stopping me from even playing there, its just THAT unplayable for me.

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