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  1. #41
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Hi folks, I apologize for the delay in updates on this issue, but as I mentioned before, we needed time to gather data and put all of our information together in one digestible format.

    We just finished editing a document that we hope to be able to publish as a forum post here in the CS forums as early as tomorrow.

    I can tell you that it's going to be a guide on optimization performance (which includes FPS) for your PCs.

    Thank you all for sharing your experiences here and for your patience as we work to continually improve your gaming experience.
    http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...233714&page=26

    Im slightly worried by this statement. We ofcourse wil just have to see and wait. But if the responses in the past are anything to go by .. this guide wont add anything to the stuff that already has been tried out. Which is an insane amount of stuff from using Windows Media player together with swtor (apparently could improve preformance for 1 person) To checking if the d3d9 seemed to not be there for most people (According to another person).

    I think this post also proves one thing.. there is no fix for the issues. And it simply comes down to that the current engine is not up for the task especially not with multiple people together in a small area.

    Aion did this properly unfortunately i think its safe to say. The FPS problems wont be fixed, and a small guide is the only thing all those people are going to get with preformance issues. One thing that does bug me i guess in the end they promised 100+ ILUM battles and this is simple not doable well it is with 5 fps.. (and before you ask for proof it was one of those videos with a Q&A a long time ago. Saw it on the official forums but have no clue where to find it now. If anybody has the link and would want to post it)

    Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTgbKxnHIdw&#t=1m28s < That is the link
    Last edited by schippie; 2012-01-27 at 03:12 AM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    I think this post also proves one thing.. there is no fix for the issues. And it simply comes down to that the current engine is not up for the task especially not with multiple people together in a small area.

    That's pretty big inference based on very little as far as I can tell.


    Also people on the forums are fucking ridiculous. All he said was that they were gonna compile a list of things people can do to help optomize their experience. He didn't tell them that BW was not gonna be doing anything on their end or that their wasn't fixes or patches that were gonna come out to help with this issue. Yet people jump down the mods fucking throat. Ignorant cretins. Those forums are the worst I've ever fucking seen and this is after the free month is up.
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2012-01-27 at 03:11 AM.

  3. #43
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Also people on the forums are fucking ridiculous. All he said was that they were gonna compile a list of things people can do to help optomize their experience. He didn't tell them that BW was not gonna be doing anything on their end or that their wasn't fixes or patches that were gonna come out to help with this issue. Yet people jump down the mods fucking throat. Ignorant cretins. Those forums are the worst I've ever fucking seen and this is after the free month is up.
    Call me cynical.. but if you would be working on a solution from your side.. (from biowares perspective) wouldnt you include that in your post to try and ease people a bit?

    Oh and before you ask yes the people are behaving rediculous. But if you have played any MMO's and seen the MMO forums lately, you cant expect much anymore. Most MMO.. or well gaming in generall forums are filled with trolls spam etc. the last years (not that they were not there before but i have the feeling its getting worse somehow..)
    Last edited by schippie; 2012-01-27 at 03:19 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    Call me cynical.. but if you would be working on a solution from your side.. (from biowares perspective) wouldnt you include that in your post to try and ease people a bit?
    You don't announce things that aren't well along on the way to being deployed for the exact reason that those clowns on the forums show. If you announce anything, you get jumped down your throat. So they release very little because the community is not mature enough to understand simple concepts and instead just quietly go about fixing what they can. Hell when they announced that ability delay was caused by a conflict between the software and dual core cpus, people IMMEDIATELY interpreted that statement as "BW IS BLAMING MY HARDWARE". Most foolish shit I ever heard in my life. Their not blaming your hardware, they've identified the issue on their end and are working on it. That's why we can't have nice things. People suck. When SR made that post about no miracles fixes it may mean that its an invasive issue and it make take some time to fix.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    That's pretty big inference based on very little as far as I can tell.


    Also people on the forums are fucking ridiculous. All he said was that they were gonna compile a list of things people can do to help optomize their experience. He didn't tell them that BW was not gonna be doing anything on their end or that their wasn't fixes or patches that were gonna come out to help with this issue. Yet people jump down the mods fucking throat. Ignorant cretins. Those forums are the worst I've ever fucking seen and this is after the free month is up.
    I bet he gona say the following

    Update your drivers, update windows and directX, turn off shadows and bloom, run game in full screen, set affinity to High

    And I even imagine him saying, buy a new computer, but that would be the cake.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    I bet he knows what he gona say

    Update your drivers, update windows and directX, turn off shadows and bloom, run game in full screen, set affinity to High

    And I even imagine him saying, buy a new computer, but that would be the cake.
    It'll just be a compilation of the various fixes that have been discovered and likely a few the devs have themselves. I see nothing wrong with that. I also don't see how that suddenly means they've stopped working on their end to fix it but apparently that's what's been inferred here.

  7. #47
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    It'll just be a compilation of the various fixes that have been discovered and likely a few the devs have themselves. I see nothing wrong with that. I also don't see how that suddenly means they've stopped working on their end to fix it but apparently that's what's been inferred here.
    Lets keep it at this: Tomorrow we will see what there guide is..
    But like Hellfury said, i dont expect anything new or for that matter usefull (fps improving) to come out of this (for now . Added those words before you bite my head off with this line). Because the only thing i could do to improve this game now is play it on the lower resolutions (the rest of the settings are as low as they go).

    And i dont say they are not going to continue fixing this. But a little bit more confirmation that there are serious issues for people. From overall in every zone issues to not being able to play this game in Ilum or warzones properly since the fps drops like a brick.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    Lets keep it at this: Tomorrow we will see what there guide is..
    But like Hellfury said, i dont expect anything new or for that matter usefull (fps improving) to come out of this (for now . Added those words before you bite my head off with this line). Because the only thing i could do to improve this game now is play it on the lower resolutions (the rest of the settings are as low as they go).

    And i dont say they are not going to continue fixing this. But a little bit more confirmation that there are serious issues for people. From overall in every zone issues to not being able to play this game in Ilum or warzones properly since the fps drops like a brick.
    As I said and as they more or less said in that thread, its just gonna be a compilation of fixes you can do as an end user to improve the quality of your experience. Off the top of my head:

    Update drivers
    Run in compatibility mode
    Full screen
    Turn off shadows and bloom
    Restart after like 3 hours of play (to clear memory)
    Turn of AA
    Turn on Windows Media Player

    Literally everything but the kitchen sink. A compendium of the forum discussion more or less on this issue. I'm sure some people on this forum have more to contribute to that list, I can't remember everything. Of course people will still be surprised and butt hurt that this wasn't more even after we've been told no miracle solution and that this was only a compendium post. Honestly I'm finding that's alot of peoples issues with SWTOR. They expected a miracle game and are only NOW finding out more or less its just a game. A good one IMO but the devs never pretended to do anything more.

  9. #49
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    Maybe it's because english isn't my first language but I don't really understand the complain about what Stephen Reid said. It seems pretty clear. Roose miss half of the quote and it was the most important thing. He said (when I look at the quote schippie posted): "It's coming, but don't expect a miracle solution I'm afraid."

    That is really too bad. It is nice to see some other acknowledgement besides that from James Ohlen, but most were hoping for a fix. Not a miracle, just a fix.
    This is exacly what he said. the "It's coming" mean a fix, but the "don't expect a miracle" mean it won't be perfect. So I think they are coming with something and they will still work on it. Just like the ability delay.
    Last edited by Apany; 2012-01-27 at 03:38 AM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    As I said and as they more or less said in that thread, its just gonna be a compilation of fixes you can do as an end user to improve the quality of your experience. Off the top of my head:


    Run in compatibility mode

    I have Windows 7, and I tried running in Windows XP, Service Pack 3 compatibility tonight. I actually had 35 FPS in Imperial Fleet today over my normal 25 FPS near the PvP vendor area with 186 people in the fleet. I thought I noticed an improvement in Warzones too, but I couldn't be 100% sure. I am gong to run with it going anyway for now.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Apany View Post
    Maybe it's because english isn't my first language but I don't really understand the complain about what Stephen Reid said. It seems pretty clear. Roose miss half of the quote and it was the most important thing. He said (when I look at the quote schippie posted): "It's coming, but don't expect a miracle solution I'm afraid."



    This is exacly what he said. the "It's coming" mean a fix, but the "don't expect a miracle" mean it won't be perfect. So I think they are coming with something and they will still work on it. Just like the ability delay.
    That's because Roose uses every chance he/she gets to bitch about HeroEngine. Nevermind that we know the game has issues and needs to be resolved on the technical aspect, he's consistently and doggedly blamed the engine for absolutely everything and never has mentioned if there's been any end user attempts on his end to try to solve personal problems.

    Anything to try to make Bioware et all look like incompetent morons, he'll post (or leave out intentionally).

  12. #52
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    I remember reading this a while back.

    http://www.heroengine.com/2011/11/he...eets-starwars/

    “I need this,” said Gordon. “I am about to start a special project and these tools will let us build and prototype fast and get something running in a hurry.”

    “It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

    He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”


    We were concerned over their making major changes to our engine, but we loved the size of the check that came with the deal.

    Going from what this says, and what other people are saying I think BioWare cut corners and have a badly optimized engine.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viertel View Post
    That's because Roose uses every chance he/she gets to bitch about HeroEngine. Nevermind that we know the game has issues and needs to be resolved on the technical aspect, he's consistently and doggedly blamed the engine for absolutely everything and never has mentioned if there's been any end user attempts on his end to try to solve personal problems.

    Anything to try to make Bioware et all look like incompetent morons, he'll post (or leave out intentionally).
    You got me. I hate the game and have never said anything good about it. Not. You flatter me, though. Nice to know that I am in your thoughts

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-27 at 01:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by carebear View Post

    Going from what this says, and what other people are saying I think BioWare cut corners and have a badly optimized engine.
    But, but, you are not me. I am the only one here that says negative things about the zero engine. Ha, see what I did there. But seriously folks, only time will tell.

    Just for the record, I really liked the game. I would be playing it if I could. I can somewhat understand the defensiveness of the fans. There have been many here to simply bash the game, but I am not one of them. I may be critical of THIS aspect of the game, but my record will show that I really like just about everything else.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    I've not got SWToR installed so i can't check personally, but i get the idea from a quick search that it is LAA enabled. This would lead me to believe that Bioware have really gone out of their way to offload onto a secondary process, possibly not realising that in fact, they have 3GB to go at on all systems. If i'm honest though, it seems more like they didn't put the required amount of work into the true technical side and instead just ripped off a "public" engine failing to realise the shortcomings.

    You can have all the graphic and 3D designers in the world but if you've not got a proper team of coders working at the real low level of the engine itself, you end up with a shitstorm of complaints about poor performance. To have the same issue from 5% of the playerbase is simply unacceptable. It's not like it's lots of different issues, where you could shrug it off as issues specific to an individual system, but the same technical issue for 1/20 players from a company as big as Bioware.
    Thats a lot of speculation and assumption from someone who doesn't even have the game installed...

    They also have stated there ARE multilple issues with a few different fixes (one part of those fixes applied this week) to come. Assuming all the people experiencing issues now wont be resolved, and they are part of the 5% that might need new hardware to make the game run as well as the other 95% is pure .....
    Last edited by openair; 2012-01-27 at 07:26 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Viertel View Post
    That's because Roose uses every chance he/she gets to bitch about HeroEngine. Nevermind that we know the game has issues and needs to be resolved on the technical aspect, he's consistently and doggedly blamed the engine for absolutely everything and never has mentioned if there's been any end user attempts on his end to try to solve personal problems.

    Anything to try to make Bioware et all look like incompetent morons, he'll post (or leave out intentionally).
    have you ever seen any pc game performing that shitty on so many pcs INCLUDING high end rigs? im afraid it is impossible that the issue on user end(all that crap about compatibility mode is not users fault. game/engine developers should make sure that the game is optimised for w7 without any other crap). so his blaming and bashing on engine is justified.

  16. #56
    I really like how so many blame the game for FPS issues all because we see 590's or 6990's included in the problems.

    I have a whole 5850 and yes, I see a few jumps and hops every once in a while.. It's nothing more the a one or two frame skip, thats it. Nothing major or ruining the game. Barely even notice it unless I'm looking specifically for it.

    So, how is my 5850 (UNDERCLOCKED btw) having very few problems while far better gpu's are seeing issues? Maybe it's not the game and just maybe the problem is on your end!

    Stop blaming the game on issues that just might be a PEBCAK error.

  17. #57
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayko View Post
    I really like how so many blame the game for FPS issues all because we see 590's or 6990's included in the problems.

    I have a whole 5850 and yes, I see a few jumps and hops every once in a while.. It's nothing more the a one or two frame skip, thats it. Nothing major or ruining the game. Barely even notice it unless I'm looking specifically for it.

    So, how is my 5850 (UNDERCLOCKED btw) having very few problems while far better gpu's are seeing issues? Maybe it's not the game and just maybe the problem is on your end!

    Stop blaming the game on issues that just might be a PEBCAK error.
    If it would occure one time i would say you are right. But when the supposedly "5%" has these issues. Allot having incredible high end pc's it says this game is not optimized well. I mean lets take a i7-2960XM together with a gtx 590 add a SSD and 8 gig's of DDR3-2133. These specs should run this game without sync over the 100 fps without any doubt. And yet people having specs similar to this are getting 10-15 fps in WZ's then in my opinion the engine is just not optimized well.. Add to the fact that the hero engine guys said this:

    We had thought about offering our engine and tools to developers but we had expected that we would have to actually ship a game first, like Epic did with Unreal Tournament before they licensed the original Unreal Engine.

    “It’s not productized yet,” we told Gordon. “There are whole sections of code that is only roughed in and not optimized for performance or security. And there are very few comments and very little documentation.”

    He didn’t care. “We are going to have tons of engineers. We can finish it ourselves. We’re going to want to modify your source code for our special project anyway.”
    Which i just found out, it all just adds up. I think the engine when it was deliverd to EA wasnt ready. And instead of asking for assistance from the developers of the Hero-engine they decided to do it themselfs. Ah well this is all speculation only know something is not right. And the guide that gets released hopefully soon has some form of decent information in it.
    Last edited by schippie; 2012-01-27 at 07:47 PM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pharrel View Post
    have you ever seen any pc game performing that shitty on so many pcs INCLUDING high end rigs? im afraid it is impossible that the issue on user end(all that crap about compatibility mode is not users fault. game/engine developers should make sure that the game is optimised for w7 without any other crap). so his blaming and bashing on engine is justified.
    Except its not really fair to call it a HERO engine game anymore. The president of the HERO engine company acknowledged this himself. What this should tell us is that BW has extensively modified and gutted the existing HERO code into what's better to be called the SWTOR engine. With that in mind, I fully expect we will see further optimization of the game as time goes by. That's why SR is saying their's no miracle fix. People are blowing that statement out of the water completely. What it means is that they have and are working to fix things on their end.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayko View Post
    I really like how so many blame the game for FPS issues all because we see 590's or 6990's included in the problems.

    I have a whole 5850 and yes, I see a few jumps and hops every once in a while.. It's nothing more the a one or two frame skip, thats it. Nothing major or ruining the game. Barely even notice it unless I'm looking specifically for it.

    So, how is my 5850 (UNDERCLOCKED btw) having very few problems while far better gpu's are seeing issues? Maybe it's not the game and just maybe the problem is on your end!

    Stop blaming the game on issues that just might be a PEBCAK error.
    gtx 580 metro2033 on 1080p 40-60fps same shit on bf3.maybe it is the game???
    i could say the same for people that cant download stuff from launcher or every time they have to redownload the whole game. "herp derp, there is no issue because its not happening to me"
    ignorant fool

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    Last edited by OhpUldum; 2012-01-27 at 08:50 PM.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrahasis View Post
    Except its not really fair to call it a HERO engine game anymore. The president of the HERO engine company acknowledged this himself. What this should tell us is that BW has extensively modified and gutted the existing HERO code into what's better to be called the SWTOR engine. With that in mind, I fully expect we will see further optimization of the game as time goes by. That's why SR is saying their's no miracle fix. People are blowing that statement out of the water completely. What it means is that they have and are working to fix things on their end.
    Ok, so the hero engine is fine. That means BioWare's engine sure does suck. Does that make it better?

    Or maybe those guys from Mythic tainted the game with their presence. This issue seems all to familiar:

    http://www.whalliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99123

    If WAR is any indication of what to expect, my expectations just dropped through the floor.

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