HC Morchok bug? Or missing something?

[Deleted]

Hey MMO'ers.

So tonight our guild just downed 10 man HC Morchok (wahey!) and we noticed there were a lot of deaths that we have just no reason for.

I feel like I should tell you a bit about our raid comp so here goes:

We had 2 groups of 5 (obviously). 1 group was a Blood DK, and a Rogue soaking up the stomps. There was a holy paladin, holy priest and a frost DK.
The other is a Feral Druid and a Frost DK soaking up the stomps. A holy priest, a holy paladin and a hunter (yes, our raid comp sucks). The issue was, despite having the two people soaking on either side people were randomly dying. They weren't the closest to Morchok, in fact they were the furthest away. There were also times the rogue died despite having feint and evasion up, if anyone can work that one out too it'd be great.

Just wondering if anyone else is having these issues.

[Herecius]

Do you have some logs? Hard to analyze anything without them.

PS: Also, your raid comp is fine. There are almost zero instances where anything can be truly blamed on 'bad raid comp.'

[CptAwesome]

The mechanic is not based on proximity to Morchok but to his tank.

The soaker should run on top of the tank when the stomp is coming and then back behind the boss after he has cast.

[Deleted]

Sorry I'm a noob, I don't know how to get logs? (Never done something like that before)

And Herecius, I didn't know that. That explains the death of our non-soaking dk a few times, but not the random dying of the healers.

[Deleted]

Tell your rogue to spec into 3/3 enveloping shadows for 30% passive AoE dmg reduction if he haven't already. It's generally not needed, but if you're having him dying through feint at times, then it shouldn't be a hard decision to make.

And as mentioned above, the double damage from the stomp is taken by the boss' tank and the player closest to the tank, not the boss.

[Herecius]

Sorry I'm a noob, I don't know how to get logs? (Never done something like that before)

And Herecius, I didn't know that. That explains the death of our non-soaking dk a few times, but not the random dying of the healers.

You can use the WoL client and register on WoL to run logs for your raid, it's an incredibly useful tool and I recommend that all guilds do use it so they can analyze these sorts of problems.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/

[Sadinar]

If all 5 people aren't in 25yds of the boss, you risk one shots due to not everyone getting hit by stomp.

[Deleted]

As a rogue I can also testify to randomly being 1-shot with Stomp, despite using Feint and being in exactly the same position to the tank and the rest of the group as the umpteen times before. The rest of my guild was baffled with this too.

[maky13]

Feint takes a bit to register as a buff. It`s also on the GCD. Depending on latency and when it was actually cast, it may be applied in time or not. Even though it appears on the player screen, it could be too late for the server to actually recognize it. Depending on factors like player reaction, FPS and latency, the rogue may want to be careful with his GCD usage before a stomp is incoming, or watch his timers (if reliable) and use it 1s before the cast.

What another poster said above is true as well, it is actually the closest target to the tank that takes the double damage (thank you Blizz for "accurate" encounter journal).

However, everything we can say is speculation without some actual logs.

[Deleted]

if the rogue dies with feint up its because someone isnt in range of stomp.

someone randomly dying can be just bad rng.

happend to my guild aswell.

[bals]

And Herecius, I didn't know that. That explains the death of our non-soaking dk a few times, but not the random dying of the healers.

my guess is is that they were the closest to the tank. It can be a little bit deceiving if you have the tank moving the boss closer to the crystal pre-stomp and the tank ends up near a healer with the soaker way on the other side of the bosses hitbox

[Paulosio]

Had this issue when we 1st did it and we found that it's because while our soaker was nearer to Morchok than other players, he wasn't always nearer the tank. Just have your soakers stand on the tank or at least make sure they are the closest player to tank... even if it means getting parries or whatever.

[Senka]

Evasion is irrelevant. You can't "Dodge" AoE damage. However, if you're struggling a lot with this fight your Rogue should use Glyph of Cloak of Shadows for emergencies because the glyph grants -40% physical damage taken for the duration. It could also help for him to be Combat with Reinforced Leather to further reduce damage after Feint. Even Improved Recuperate wouldn't be useless here as that grants -6% damage taken for the duration.

The most important thing to note is how Feint works with the client and server. At some point, I think around 3.1, Feint became very weird about its usage. If you were rapidly going in and out of melee range of the target and trying to use Feint you could end up seeing the GCD going from supposedly using it, but nothing actually happened. There's no real explanation for this. As far as I can tell this only happens when trying to use it at the same time as going out of melee range by about 1-2 yards. Of course this can easily happen when the Rogue is trying to stay in melee with Morchok while he's being moved over to the crystal soakers.

As for Stomp doing double damage to the person closest to the tank, it appears to be intended. In 4.3.2, they're changing the Dungeon Journal entry (and hopefully the tooltip) to say just that. It seems that the Dungeon Journal is plagued with many errors like this. My best guess is that the errors are from early alpha development designs that they changed over the course of the PTR, and they forgot to update the Journal. For example, it says Deathwing's Elementium Bolt hits for 390,000 Fire decreased by how far away you are and then hits again for the same amount every 5 seconds. I'm sure most here know instead what happens is it ticks for about 18K every second.

[Franklinn]

Also, the double-stomp soaker is determined when he begins to cast stomp (raises his leg), NOT when he actually stomps. Make sure your ranged group is never ever ever closest to the boss, even if they are just running by... there's simply no need to risk it!

[Senka]

Also, the double-stomp soaker is determined when he begins to cast stomp (raises his leg), NOT when he actually stomps. Make sure your ranged group is never ever ever closest to the boss, even if they are just running by... there's simply no need to risk it!

Really... my guild is struggling with him. Now I know that, as the Rogue, I shouldn't try to risk it by running through him when Stomp is being cast to soak. :P Luckily I convinced them to let me be on Kohcrom so that I can very easily see when Stomp is about to come (the other group gets the Stomp debuff).

[Maged]

make sure all the crystals have soakers, and that while soaking the crystals they were still within 25 yards of the boss.
We usually tank him 5-10 yards away from a crystal, and move him around as they spawn so that we never risk anybody being out of range.

[Jiigeri]

Evasion is irrelevant. You can't "Dodge" AoE damage. However, if you're struggling a lot with this fight your Rogue should use Glyph of Cloak of Shadows for emergencies because the glyph grants -40% physical damage taken for the duration. It could also help for him to be Combat with Reinforced Leather to further reduce damage after Feint. Even Improved Recuperate wouldn't be useless here as that grants -6% damage taken for the duration.

The most important thing to note is how Feint works with the client and server. At some point, I think around 3.1, Feint became very weird about its usage. If you were rapidly going in and out of melee range of the target and trying to use Feint you could end up seeing the GCD going from supposedly using it, but nothing actually happened. There's no real explanation for this. As far as I can tell this only happens when trying to use it at the same time as going out of melee range by about 1-2 yards. Of course this can easily happen when the Rogue is trying to stay in melee with Morchok while he's being moved over to the crystal soakers.

As for Stomp doing double damage to the person closest to the tank, it appears to be intended. In 4.3.2, they're changing the Dungeon Journal entry (and hopefully the tooltip) to say just that. It seems that the Dungeon Journal is plagued with many errors like this. My best guess is that the errors are from early alpha development designs that they changed over the course of the PTR, and they forgot to update the Journal. For example, it says Deathwing's Elementium Bolt hits for 390,000 Fire decreased by how far away you are, and then hits again for the same amount every 5 seconds. I'm sure most here know instead what happens is it ticks for about 18K every second.

I'm quite sure that usually stomp destroying an rogue through feint is due to an human error of some kind. I personally do the fight in subtlety spec without enveloping shadows and I can handle them with easy. Actually, I don't even die to one from full health even if I did not have my feint on (it goes close though, I can tell you that much and during furious it definately is lethal without).

Anyways, if you do the fight WITH enveloping shadows, you can activate feint a few seconds after morchok has stomped, it should easily last till kohcroms stomp.

Also, what comes to your comment below: "Luckily I convinced them to let me be on Kohcrom so that I can very easily see Stomp is about to come", at least BigWigs shows them right for me.

[Scorp969]

also sometimes the orb is under textures so almost invisible

[Warcrafter]

I have to agree with you OP, we just downed Mor HC today aswell and there were a lot of random deaths on the original boss. While having a Rogue soak stomps and the ranged being within stomp range, sometimes the rogue took no dgm while being second closest to boss/tank and a random ranged got 1 shotted. We still have no idea, maybe its a bug?

[Deleted]

I have to agree with you OP, we just downed Mor HC today aswell and there were a lot of random deaths on the original boss. While having a Rogue soak stomps and the ranged being within stomp range, sometimes the rogue took no dgm while being second closest to boss/tank and a random ranged got 1 shotted. We still have no idea, maybe its a bug?

This is the exact issue we're having! Our Hunter and Holy Priests are standing in the crystal, not closest to the boss and still in 25 yards but they still die even before the crystal explodes.