Apple is Just Dominating - Posting Record Profits

[Deleted]

Jup, but you will have spent an extra 500-1000 pounds on the pwetty looks.

Not to mention the half-eaten piece of fruit.

[Deleted]

Their share in the market has been growing, yes. However, what you're neglecting to do is consider the sheer size of the market.

Q1, Apple sold 5.2 million Macs. Now, let's be hypothetical, and say there's some growth over the year coming up.
In fact, let's be fucking CRAZY and say, "Mac sales will have doubled by the end of the year". So in Q1, 5.2 million - in Q2, 6.9 million, in Q3, 8.6 million, and in Q4, 10.4 million.

It's an unprecedented year for Apple, in our hypothetical universe; they sold 31.1 million Macs!
They'd be DOMINATING the market, right?

Wrong.

http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm
http://www.c-i-a.com/worldwideuseexec.htm

Both of these resources (quickly found by doing 'yearly PC sales' as a google search string - literally result #1 and #2) will indicate that in 2010 (the most recent data available), there were 325 million PCs sold. Over 10 times the sales in our hypothetical universe!

In reality however, in 2010, there were 13,662,000 Macs sold. A piddly 4.2% market share.

source:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010...r-Results.html
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010...r-Results.html
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010...r-Results.html
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010...r-Results.html

The article in the OP suggests that Mac sales have increased by 26%. That sounds like a lot, right?
Except, as the Q4 results of 2010 suggests, this is actually a DROP in growth, as 2010 saw a 27% increase over 2009.

If anyone is guilty of not actually checking the figures, it is you.

You're trying information overload but your argument boils down to:
Me: Their market share and absolute sales figures are up
You: You're wrong! {INSERT LOTS OF DATA}. See? Their market share GROWTH is tapering off so YOU'RE WRONG!

I'm one of those old *nix guys; I'd never consider a Mac a Unix system that 'works out of the box'.
OSX has none of the features that I use a *nix-based OS for. It's no more a real Unix OS, than an XBox360 is a Windows system.

And again, define 'load'; sure there are a lot. However, the number of Java developers who use PCs dwarfs the number of those who use Macs by almost the same margin as PC users dwarf Mac users. It's just not a fair comparison, and the only people who develop for Macs are those who aren't in it for the money, I'll tell you that much.

What features is it that are missing from OS X? Please do tell me because I know I'm able to forward X sessions over SSH just fine (got Wireshark running on my desktop at home and the window is being displayed on my work laptop right now), I can install pretty much all the usual *nix software that runs on other *nix systems (except for software which is tied to hardware in various ways such as some software which assumes every *nix is Linux on x86 or proprietary binary-only software not available for OS X).

Guess what happens if you run "which vim" or "which emacs" on a fresh OS X install...

[Deleted]

For one, the OS X drivers supplied by Nvidia and AMD for their workstation-class graphics cards are of notoriously low quality and Apple does put a lot of work into driver development themselves which is understandable considering that their business model for Macs is to sell a complete working solution. That's not to say there aren't flaws (for example, their OpenCL implementation leaves quite a bit to be desired).

See, that's just bullshit.
What you're saying is that one of the most profitable companies in the world can't provide drivers for a videocard.
I mean, you have quite a few FREE unix-based OS that come with perfectly fine drivers (from beos to linux, bsd and god knows what else), you have Microsoft coming up with 21942190421098421 drivers for 129084517209271057211283451 manufacturers, but here you are, stating that drivers are a problem. How can I not laugh in your face and call your arguments bullshit?

And once again, more hardware configurations means higher costs and why would they do this just to gain the support of a fraction of the gamer community (which in itself is a tiny fraction of the market)?

All this means is what I said above: they have a deal with a manufacturer. Currently, they use AMD chips. If Nvidia gave them a better price to use their products, they'd switch in a second and suddenly there'd be NO driver issues. You know and I know it. It has nothing to do with "gamers" or "drivers". It's just good ol' dollars.

Yes, you have a choice. Why do you feel the need to cram that choice down other people's throats?

I don't. You don't see me going around trying to convince apple fanbois to sell their shitty "computer" and get a real one. You don't see me trying to rid the world of the Apple plague. It's just that you won't see me standing by while morons go "yes, it's a fashion statement, yes, it's about the right to choose, yes, it's a better computer/phone, yes, it's worth the money, yes, it's unix". No, it's none of those things. It's just a steaming pile of shit that you bought because you thought you'll get respect, admiration and - in some cases - chicks (yes, I know someone that really hopes his brand new iphone will get him chicks, whatever).

You'll get none of those things. The typical apple fanboi ends up as a mainstream idiot. There's nothing to respect about that. Sure, I respect his right to be a complete tool, but it doesn't mean I'll allow him to go around telling people how cool it is to be an idiot. Unless, of course, he's american.

[Titheon]

Reuters reports on new data from research firm Kantar Worldpanel ComTech showing that Apple slipped past Android by the narrowest of margins in fourth quarter U.S. smartphone sales, with Apple's iPhone taking 44.9% of the market and Android taking 44.8%.

[Deleted]

Sums up Apple.

My god what a logo can do to your mind!

[Deleted]

Yes - which I graciously do, not to mention laughing at people buying Apple products.
How does that change the fact that Apple does NOT, in fact, tolerate customer choices?

Apple provides plenty of choices - again if you don't like them then move along.
You're the one complaining about it and as it's such a big deal then you, as the consumer, will be better off going down a different track. It's obvious an Apple product isn't for you. They don't HAVE to appease you (that's their choice) - you're not an Apple customer. That's fine. You don't want them, they don't want you - it's win win for everyone.
Choice is a 2 way street.

---------- Post added 2012-01-26 at 11:24 AM ----------

See, that's just bullshit.
What you're saying is that one of the most profitable companies in the world can't provide drivers for a videocard.
I mean, you have quite a few FREE unix-based OS that come with perfectly fine drivers (from beos to linux, bsd and god knows what else), you have Microsoft coming up with 21942190421098421 drivers for 129084517209271057211283451 manufacturers, but here you are, stating that drivers are a problem. How can I not laugh in your face and call your arguments bullshit?



All this means is what I said above: they have a deal with a manufacturer. Currently, they use AMD chips. If Nvidia gave them a better price to use their products, they'd switch in a second and suddenly there'd be NO driver issues. You know and I know it. It has nothing to do with "gamers" or "drivers". It's just good ol' dollars.



I don't. You don't see me going around trying to convince apple fanbois to sell their shitty "computer" and get a real one. You don't see me trying to rid the world of the Apple plague. It's just that you won't see me standing by while morons go "yes, it's a fashion statement, yes, it's about the right to choose, yes, it's a better computer/phone, yes, it's worth the money, yes, it's unix". No, it's none of those things. It's just a steaming pile of shit that you bought because you thought you'll get respect, admiration and - in some cases - chicks (yes, I know someone that really hopes his brand new iphone will get him chicks, whatever).

You'll get none of those things. The typical apple fanboi ends up as a mainstream idiot. There's nothing to respect about that. Sure, I respect his right to be a complete tool, but it doesn't mean I'll allow him to go around telling people how cool it is to be an idiot. Unless, of course, he's american.

You'll "allow" him.
Wow - god complex much?

[Deleted]

It's not made for games, which are usually designed to run on Mr. Nobody's computer, it's made for running extremely power-consuming professional programs which use every bit of it, and in that case, it completely blows a standard PC out.

Of course, if instead of a standard pc you compare with a professional workstation, then the two are evenly matched again. Unless it's a 3D-workstation, which blows the Mac Pro out of the water graphics-wise.

But.

I wonder how many people who buy a dual 6-core Mac actually use that kind of computing power. I get the feeling Apple tries to sell that product to people with a lot of money, but very little idea of what they actually need.

[Atrea]

You're trying information overload but your argument boils down to:
Me: Their market share and absolute sales figures are up
You: You're wrong! {INSERT LOTS OF DATA}. See? Their market share GROWTH is tapering off so YOU'RE WRONG!

No I'm not. I'm backing up what I have to say, because that's how you make cogent points. You should take a lesson.

Their market share is DOWN. The proof is right in front of your eyes, but I forgot - it's information overload.
Their sales figures are up. While that's good news for Apple - who doesn't like making more money - it's not good for anyone thinking of developing for a Mac.
But that's okay; no one really is anyway.

What features is it that are missing from OS X? Please do tell me because I know I'm able to forward X sessions over SSH just fine (got Wireshark running on my desktop at home and the window is being displayed on my work laptop right now), I can install pretty much all the usual *nix software that runs on other *nix systems (except for software which is tied to hardware in various ways such as some software which assumes every *nix is Linux on x86 or proprietary binary-only software not available for OS X).

Guess what happens if you run "which vim" or "which emacs" on a fresh OS X install...

I can't compile my own kernel. It is not an open source OS. It is not possible to strip it down to run on a flash drive. I can't run it on any machine in the universe, including PS2, Wii, PS3, PSP, DS, and even on an Android phone (just to name a few.)

I'll stop there, because if I really thought about it, I could fill an entire page.

[Deleted]

Of course, if instead of a standard pc you compare with a professional workstation, then the two are evenly matched again. Unless it's a 3D-workstation, which blows the Mac Pro out of the water graphics-wise.

But.

I wonder how many people who buy a dual 6-core Mac actually use that kind of computing power. I get the feeling Apple tries to sell that product to people with a lot of money, but very little idea of what they actually need.

Proffessional video editing with Final Cut Pro.

[Deleted]

Apple provides plenty of choices - again if you don't like them then move along.
You're the one complaining about it and as it's such a big deal then you, as the consumer, will be better off going down a different track. It's obvious an Apple product isn't for you. They don't HAVE to appease you (that's their choice) - you're not an Apple customer. That's fine. You don't want them, they don't want you - it's win win for everyone.
Choice is a 2 way street

I can become an Apple customer in about 2 minutes. I can afford to buy an Imac. Let's assume I bought one. That would make me an Apple customer.
Let's assume I called them and told them AMD is shit and I want an Nvidia 580. I'm a customer, right? Will the "appease me"? Will they suddenly sell imacs with nvidia chipsets? No, they won't.
Dumb argument is dumb. Reality is Apple doesn't tolerate choices. It just sells the cheapest shit on the market to pretentious wannabes.

[Deleted]

See, that's just bullshit.
What you're saying is that one of the most profitable companies in the world can't provide drivers for a videocard.
I mean, you have quite a few FREE unix-based OS that come with perfectly fine drivers (from beos to linux, bsd and god knows what else), you have Microsoft coming up with 21942190421098421 drivers for 129084517209271057211283451 manufacturers, but here you are, stating that drivers are a problem. How can I not laugh in your face and call your arguments bullshit?

The open source drivers for Linux and the *BSDs are either 2D only or suffer from performance or stability issues for pretty much all newer 3D accelerated cards.

The driver-supplied drivers are not without their share of problems, Nvidia used to have a pretty hefty troubleshooting document with various Xorg/XFree86 settings that were required for different cards in order to get them working...

All this means is what I said above: they have a deal with a manufacturer. Currently, they use AMD chips. If Nvidia gave them a better price to use their products, they'd switch in a second and suddenly there'd be NO driver issues. You know and I know it. It has nothing to do with "gamers" or "drivers". It's just good ol' dollars.

Apple would still need to have more hardware designs which would cost more money to design and they would end up with smaller production runs per design (unless they used the manufacturers reference designs in which case they'd be forced to stick a regular PCIe slot in every desktop since the reference designs are for PCIe cards).

I don't. You don't see me going around trying to convince apple fanbois to sell their shitty "computer" and get a real one. You don't see me trying to rid the world of the Apple plague. It's just that you won't see me standing by while morons go "yes, it's a fashion statement, yes, it's about the right to choose, yes, it's a better computer/phone, yes, it's worth the money, yes, it's unix". No, it's none of those things. It's just a steaming pile of shit that you bought because you thought you'll get respect, admiration and - in some cases - chicks (yes, I know someone that really hopes his brand new iphone will get him chicks, whatever).

You'll get none of those things. The typical apple fanboi ends up as a mainstream idiot. There's nothing to respect about that. Sure, I respect his right to be a complete tool, but it doesn't mean I'll allow him to go around telling people how cool it is to be an idiot. Unless, of course, he's american.

Yet you're in this thread...

[Deleted]

Why are people spending money on apple products? It makes no sense...

There are so many better things to do with your money: give the 50% you pay extra for Apple to charity, support open source.

Seriously, what do you get extra for that high price? Access to an app store with even more over priced stuff? Supporting Apple is just plain egoism. Think about which software the biggest part of the world's population can afford and support that: Only Open Source + Linux (and pirated windows ).

[Deleted]

The open source drivers for Linux and the *BSDs are either 2D only or suffer from performance or stability issues for pretty much all newer 3D accelerated cards.

The driver-supplied drivers are not without their share of problems, Nvidia used to have a pretty hefty troubleshooting document with various Xorg/XFree86 settings that were required for different cards in order to get them working...

Ok, I'm tired of you beating around the bush, let's just hear it: are you saying Apple CAN'T come up with drivers for Nvidia? Are you saying OS X doesn't support Nvidia?

Apple would still need to have more hardware designs which would cost more money to design and they would end up with smaller production runs per design (unless they used the manufacturers reference designs in which case they'd be forced to stick a regular PCIe slot in every desktop since the reference designs are for PCIe cards).

So, using more (Twisted) words, what you're saying is that Apple doesn't care about the customer, just about money. 100% true.

Yet you're in this thread...

So is everyone else, including you, your point?
Let me guess: I care. Woohoo.
I find Apple fanboys amusing and it amuses me to pinpoint their lies and misconceptions...for now.
Just look at you, for example. Some pages ago, you were going "difference between apple and pc is like 100 bucks." People (not just me) come and prove you wrong, showing you Apple is 500-1000-2000 more expensive. Your reply? None, ignore it, switch topics, pretend not to see it. Hell, anyone on mmo-champion that ISN'T in this thread is missing a lot.

The problem is not me being in this thread. The problem is Apple fanboys being in this thread. Let me tell you why they're here. They (I'm not saying "you", simply out of pity) are here because they _KNOW_ they paid 500-1000-2000 more, they _KNOW_ they paid that amount hoping to get a fashion statement, some "I belong there" feeling with a bit of "I'm rich enough to afford this" and instead of respect and adoration and some imaginary club, all they got is a bemused look from people with a brain.

That's why "they" are here. OH NOES. THEY BE STEEEEEEELEEEEN' OUR SHINY REPUTATIONZ.

[Deleted]

Why are people spending money on apple products? It makes no sense...

There are so many better things to do with your money: give the 50% you pay extra for Apple to charity, support open source.

Seriously, what do you get extra for that high price? Access to an app store with even more over priced stuff? Supporting Apple is just plain egoism. Think about which software the biggest part of the world's population can afford and support that: Only Open Source + Linux (and pirated windows ).

Again, hardware isn't everything. Just because this forum mostly consists of gamers, which is highly dependant of hardware, dosn't mean it's everything. I like a good design. That's one of the many reasons why i prefer apple products over samsung or Dell/HP/Acer/Lenovo/whatever.

[Deleted]

No I'm not. I'm backing up what I have to say, because that's how you make cogent points. You should take a lesson.

Their market share is DOWN. The proof is right in front of your eyes, but I forgot - it's information overload.
Their sales figures are up. While that's good news for Apple - who doesn't like making more money - it's not good for anyone thinking of developing for a Mac.
But that's okay; no one really is anyway.

Drop in growth is not the same as drop in market share.

I can't compile my own kernel. It is not an open source OS. It is not possible to strip it down to run on a flash drive. I can't run it on any machine in the universe, including PS2, Wii, PS3, PSP, DS, and even on an Android phone (just to name a few.)

I'll stop there, because if I really thought about it, I could fill an entire page.

Is this what you're looking for? http://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-1699.24.8/

Now, why would you want to recompile the kernel? And I mean sane reasons, this isn't Linux 2.0.x. Also, good luck trying to get the source for the kernels of any other commercial UNIX systems.

As for running OS X from a USB stick, you can do that but it makes more sense to run it from a hard drive or an SSD.

Neither of these make OS X "not UNIX" in any way.

---------- Post added 2012-01-26 at 12:39 PM ----------

Ok, I'm tired of you beating around the bush, let's just hear it: are you saying Apple CAN'T come up with drivers for Nvidia? Are you saying OS X doesn't support Nvidia?

I'm not beating around the bush, you're being deliberately obtuse.

So, using more (Twisted) words, what you're saying is that Apple doesn't care about the customer, just about money. 100% true.

Apple cares as much about its customers as every other large corporation.

So is everyone else, including you, your point?
Let me guess: I care. Woohoo.
I find Apple fanbois amusing and it amuses me to pinpoint their lies and misconceptions...for now.
Just look at you, for example. Some pages ago, you were going "difference between apple and pc is like 100 bucks. People (not just me) come and prove you wrong, showing you Apple is 500-1000-2000 more expensive. Your reply? None, ignore it, switch topics, pretend not to see it. Hell, anyone on mmo-champion that ISN'T in this thread is missing a lot.

No one proved me wrong, you're just making that up. I just don't have the patience to deal with outright lies and fantasies from people who really don't care about reality as long as they can keep hating Apple/Microsoft/Linux/IBM/Volvo or whatever it is they've decided is teh evül.

As an example, I bought my current iMac right after it was released. At the time buying a comparable i7 system with a 27" IPS monitor from another manufacturer or building it myself would've saved me, at best, around $100. There were plenty that were more expensive than the iMac as well. Of course, three months later the same model iMac was still priced the same and the competition had dropped their prices so now almost everyone was cheaper but at the time that I bought my iMac it was one of the cheaper offerings on the market.

[Deleted]

I can become an Apple customer in about 2 minutes. I can afford to buy an Imac. Let's assume I bought one. That would make me an Apple customer.
Let's assume I called them and told them AMD is shit and I want an Nvidia 580. I'm a customer, right? Will the "appease me"? Will they suddenly sell imacs with nvidia chipsets? No, they won't.
Dumb argument is dumb. Reality is Apple doesn't tolerate choices. It just sells the cheapest shit on the market to pretentious wannabes.

Not having to appease you means just that. they don't have to jump through hoops just to get you or keep you as a customer. If I buy a car and then decide I want a different engine that's not supported I'll get the same response. There are plenty of choice available and the first one you have is to NOT buy an Apple computer.
if you bought that computer and it's within 14 days take it back. they will happily give you your money back. that appease you at all. Doubtful because your still trying to have an argument about something that you dont want to buy. Your choice. It's hilarious you can't see that. If it doesn't have what you want - don't buy it.

[Deleted]

Proffessional video editing with Final Cut Pro.

And your point is?

Yes, there are people who need such computing power - I never claimed otherwise.

But I suspect Apple also markets that product to people who do have the money, but don't use Final Cut Pro (or anything like it), in other words, who don't need the power.

[vep]

Since when does a quarter last 24 days?

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.... /tactical facepalm

[Eled.]

Of course, if instead of a standard pc you compare with a professional workstation, then the two are evenly matched again. Unless it's a 3D-workstation, which blows the Mac Pro out of the water graphics-wise.

I was quoting mlud who was quoting a guy comparing a 5k€ Mac Pro to his 2500k i5, saying his was more powerful. I couldn't help but say how retarded and uneducated the comment was.

Now, not comparing apples and oranges (lololz) : I won't tell for the 3D work-station, I think you're right on that point ; but you're over-estimating what actually exists as "other kinds" of work-stations... and the problem lies as much in the hardware part as in the software part.

But yeah.. again these machines are almost 2 years old, and they still manage to compete in many fields, if you take the very high-end professional work-stations around here, of course it will be better (.. or not, in some cases :/), but I firmly think that when they'll update it, it will outperform almost anything again, for some time.

[Deleted]

No one proved me wrong, you're just making that up. I just don't have the patience to deal with outright lies and fantasies from people who really don't care about reality as long as they can keep hating Apple/Microsoft/Linux/IBM/Volvo or whatever it is they've decided is teh evül.

As an example, I bought my current iMac right after it was released. At the time buying a comparable i7 system with a 27" IPS monitor from another manufacturer or building it myself would've saved me, at best, around $100. There were plenty that were more expensive than the iMac as well. Of course, three months later the same model iMac was still priced the same and the competition had dropped their prices so now almost everyone was cheaper but at the time that I bought my iMac it was one of the cheaper offerings on the market.

I already showed the "latest" imac is 3600 bucks or something - without including software, printer or whatever else.
I already showed buying the same components means paying 1300 (on newegg), EXCEPT for monitor/mouse/keyboard.

Why don't you tell everyone here how those peripherals are worth 2300, cause I'm sure we could all learn a thing or two...

Apple/Microsoft/Linux/IBM/Volvo or whatever it is they've decided is teh evül.

Oh, I don't think Apple is "evul". I think they're just smart. Buying cheap, selling expensive, making money off not-so-intelligent people.
I'd say it learned a lot from WoW. That's like, what, auctioneer 101?

I'm not beating around the bush, you're being deliberately obtuse.

You're been avoiding the truth for 5 pages. Apple doesn't give a flying duck about its customers. That's fine, because, as you so well put it...

Apple cares as much about its customers as every other large corporation.

It's the same thing, just using different words to (once again) avoid the truth. The only reason you're avoiding saying it out loud is that you know you paid the 500-2000 more and got the same result: a company that doesn't care about you.

You'll get over it....eventually. Puberty's a bitch.