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  1. #1

    Too low dps as Combat

    Hey fellow Rogues!

    I've been reading lots of guides on how to do ideal damage as Combat. Yet I struggle a lot with reaching good dps. According to Shadowcraft, I should be doing 38k dps. On Ultraxion, Im barely doing 28k. It's 10man so Im lacking a few buffs but it shouldn't be that horrible. I'm doing awful damage on all bosses where I cant cleave.

    I open with pre-TotT and 1-2 SS to get around 3-4 CP for SnD. Then right to AR together with trinkets. Only using RV at 4 CP. Trying to keep Rapture up with 5 CP. It's like 65% uptime but it shouldn't matter that much, right? My SnD uptime is 96-97% which is good I guess. Whenver AR ends I usually have 5-6 seconds left on 30% BG, I then use KS before BG ends. I use TotT and engineering enchant whenver they're off CD. I only use Evis at 5 CP.
    I try to avoid AR when Heroism/Bloodlust is up because I'll cap too easy.

    I feel like there's something Im missing that causes my dps to be as horrible as it is. Only during Cleave I can reach up to around 40-50k dps but there isn't rly any boss in DS that offer so many cleave oppertunitys.

    I've been thinking of getting 2set bonus in t12, but will it really do that much for Combat?

    I'd love some advices or help on rotation and stats. Im pretty sure my stats is fine.

    Please tell me Im doing something wrong!
    Last edited by CakeomgCake; 2012-11-27 at 11:06 AM.

  2. #2
    I'll just throw this out here. Are you remembering your poisons?

  3. #3
    Yes^^ IP on MH and DP on OH

  4. #4
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by CakeomgCake View Post
    Hey fellow Rogues!

    I've been reading lots of guides on how to do ideal damage as Combat. Yet I struggle a lot with reaching good dps. According to Shadowcraft, I should be doing 38k dps. On Ultraxion, Im barely doing 28k. It's 10man so Im lacking a few buffs but it shouldn't be that horrible. I'm doing awful damage on all bosses where I cant cleave.

    Armory link ---> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ydefrog/simple

    I open with pre-TotT and 1-2 SS to get around 3-4 CP for SnD. Then right to AR together with trinkets. Only using RV at 4 CP. Trying to keep Rapture up with 5 CP. It's like 65% uptime but it shouldn't matter that much, right? My SnD uptime is 96-97% which is good I guess. Whenver AR ends I usually have 5-6 seconds left on 30% BG, I then use KS before BG ends. I use TotT and engineering enchant whenver they're off CD. I only use Evis at 5 CP.
    I try to avoid AR when Heroism/Bloodlust is up because I'll cap too easy.

    I feel like there's something Im missing that causes my dps to be as horrible as it is. Only during Cleave I can reach up to around 40-50k dps but there isn't rly any boss in DS that offer so many cleave oppertunitys.

    I've been thinking of getting 2set bonus in t12, but will it really do that much for Combat?

    I'd love some advices or help on rotation and stats. Im pretty sure my stats is fine.

    Please tell me Im doing something wrong!
    use KS first then AR, drop rupture and using AR with BL is not a bad thing as long as you're wasting energy.

  5. #5
    doing like 1k less than shadowcraft tells me to (prob because of failing with like RS with 5CP or something),
    doing just like you so you really should do more dps.

  6. #6
    Seeing it's 10 man make sure you do not use rupture if you don't have bleed buff.

  7. #7
    The Unstoppable Force Hysteria's Avatar
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    If possible OP, Can you get us a WOL Report? That would help us A LOT more personally for us to help you.

  8. #8
    Should I never use Rapture? Also, Does KS benefit from BG? If so, I feel like I need to wait with KS until 20% or 30%. n I dont wanna wait too long with AR

  9. #9
    dont rupture unless u have the bleed debuff, and even then, with that ilvl gear i found just 5cp Evis and keep SnD up worked out slightly better. Also make use of bandits

  10. #10
    The Unstoppable Force Hysteria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CakeomgCake View Post
    Should I never use Rapture? Also, Does KS benefit from BG? If so, I feel like I need to wait with KS until 20% or 30%. n I dont wanna wait too long with AR
    You never rupture if you do not have a Mangle debuff, KS does benefit from BG however if you are using it for every 15% you shouldn't Least for my shadowcraft it shows a much greater yield of DPS whenever on CD rather then wait for a guile. As I've stated in my previous post a WoL report would really really help us.

  11. #11
    Actually I dont think bleed buff is provided at all tbh, hmmm maybe I should skip rapture, ye. I know WoL would be great but unfortunately I cant provide you with that.

  12. #12
    High Overlord Hatebox's Avatar
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    I'm not a experienced rogue but... my thoughts:

    1) Drop Rupture from your rotation.
    2) Open with only 1 SS --> SND --> Rotation pew pew
    3) Use KS on CD, and as some told me, before AR (so u lower the CD of ur next KS, cause of Restless Blades)
    4) About AR, personally, I dont like to use it during "ToTT 2pt" proc or during Starcatcher Compass Proc, cos of constant energy cap.
    5) If u cant get ur 4pt, go for 2pt/2pt. Some more free damage is always nice.

    Hope it helps a bit.

  13. #13
    High Overlord
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    not maybe, just skip rupture. Is only 1% dpš gain but certain parameters need to exist. Rupture only complicates rotation and its advised by many guides and top rogues not to use it at all. Also, i found using my first KS on shallow insight and then using it on cd , provides me best dps

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Khas View Post
    use KS first then AR, drop rupture and using AR with BL is not a bad thing as long as you're wasting energy.
    Indeed, killing spree first and AR after. Only drop rupture if you can't (for example, latency issues) use it properly OR if you DON'T have the bleed debuff in the raid. Using rupture without the bleed debuff is not very viable in my experience. We do not have the buff outside of me being subtlety on certain bosses, so when I'm as combat I just drop rupture out of the rotation UNLESS the fight has heavy movement).

    Also, you're completely fine with using just 1-2 cp SnDs. Other than that, spam the hell out of your SS, RvS and evisc.

    For ultraxion specifically you can win some DPS by having better timing for using heroic will, I personally use it for fading light immediately when the buff timer hits 0 seconds (which actually on my UI happens at 0.5-0.8 seconds remaining) and how Hour of Twilight I press the button at ~1 second remaining (going lower seems to let it through, for me at least so I just play it safe. I don't recommend pressing the button at 2 seconds or so, ever. It's pretty decent damage loss during the whole fight.

  15. #15
    What does movement have to do with rupture... Anyway don't bother with rupture. It is a dps loss without bleed which most 10m don't have and even then it is barely if any (depending on gear) a dps loss to drop it.

  16. #16
    I'd say one of the few times it's worth using rupture is on Yor when switching to a slime and this only if redirect is on CD.

  17. #17
    Blademaster Beloved's Avatar
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    pulled 43k last night, my ilvl is 392.

    open with ONE SS (pre tot), slice and dice, build to 5 cp using rs at 4. KS. Use evis, use AR. After that, use KS and AR on CD. if KS will be up in <20 seconds and AR just came up, wait to AR. (Idk the math behind this, it's just what I do)

    Don't use tricks if you have 2pc t13 and you are about to energy cap. Don't use it during AR. Don't use it right after KS.

    Don't bother using rupture, it's probably hurting your dps.

    SnD must always be up and don't clip it. Watch your energy regen and evaluate when you can refresh it without losing any dps and without clipping the remainder duration (I usually refresh SnD when the buff has <1 seconds left). Never pool energy past 60 or so, more once you're better at it.

  18. #18
    Rupture shouldn't make that much of a difference in your DPS, so while you're better off not using it w/o mangle, that's not the main problem here unless you're prioritizing it over keeping SnD up or something bizarre. You've reforged into Crit which is pretty much a big no no, but again that wouldn't really explain being about 10k DPS short of what you should be doing.

    I'm also going to assume this is a problem on bosses other than Ultraxion, so the problem isn't just your timing of Heroic Will. That obviously won't help, but I don't think you'd be here asking if that was the only boss where you've ever had issues. I myself play a Combat Rogue on 10m and can pull over 40k DPS with around ilvl 393, so I know it's possible. You haven't mentioned anything about your raid comp though, is it possible you're using some really bad setup that's missing key buffs? The 20% AP buff is worth about 5k dps for me on Shadowcraft, 10% melee haste about 2k dps, 3% damage about 1.5k dps, etc. If you're missing a lot of those there's really no way you're going to do proper DPS and your group should really consider swapping some players around if you want to progress.

    Lastly, do you have really high latency or anything? It sounds like the most likely unnoticeable culprit is just that you're not actively using abilities enough. Downtime is the biggest killer of DPS in any spec, make sure you're always doing something. You've said a lot that makes it seem like you understand the class, but even if you're doing the right rotation, it won't matter if you're doing it 50% slower than other rogues.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloved View Post
    pulled 43k last night, my ilvl is 392.

    open with ONE SS (pre tot), slice and dice, build to 5 cp using rs at 4. KS. Use evis, use AR. After that, use KS and AR on CD. if KS will be up in <20 seconds and AR just came up, wait to AR. (Idk the math behind this, it's just what I do)

    Don't use tricks if you have 2pc t13 and you are about to energy cap. Don't use it during AR. Don't use it right after KS.

    Don't bother using rupture, it's probably hurting your dps.

    SnD must always be up and don't clip it. Watch your energy regen and evaluate when you can refresh it without losing any dps and without clipping the remainder duration (I usually refresh SnD when the buff has <1 seconds left). Never pool energy past 60 or so, more once you're better at it.
    I was just about to type all that out, fortunately someone else did for me. Everything this man said is spot on.

    Besides pooling energy, never pool energy. You should never have a free global unless your waiting for energy, which is just about hardly ever.

    Edit: Also fix your reforging. You shouldn't be reforged into crit at all. All your reforging should be into haste, and when you can't put it into haste put it into hit until your at 17%, also get rid of that green gem homie!

  20. #20
    also if u have a chance to get agi axe from Deathwing, use it instead of first stage MH dagger

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