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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    its actually not that were bothered by being middle of the pack, we're used to that. its the language and the excuse that blizz used to justify keeping us in the middle of the pack that bothers us.
    How can you say you're okay with being in the middle of the pack and then bitch about being kept in the middle of the pack in the same breath? This doesn't even make sense.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Loop View Post
    How Can I tank/heal and dps at the same time and be competative?
    I can't. Stop bringing this BS about hybrid-tax.
    When i dps as ret, i can throw occasional heal, but it's not like im going to start healing like a baws, same goes for tanking.
    Not sure if serious.... -.-

    A class can't excel at everything. Stop having the logic "omg, omg i'm not topping the meters, QQ blizz". You think a paladin's dps should be higher than a rogues'? A lock's (which is in a lot of fights now, but you get my point). Then, let's roll paladins everyone. Hybrid dps MUST be below traditional dps classes when the only thing they can do is deeps deeps, while hybrid classes have more roads to follow if they wish to.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedralixx View Post
    I believe that ret dps is where it should be. Hybrid dps must not, in any case, top the meters. Yes, there could be fights where rets could excel but someone should expect a traditional dps bringing more damage. You can't have a class who can heal, tank and dps and at the same time want to top meters, even though Blizz talks about homogenization all the time.
    Blizzard spent about two expansions pointing out this is wrong.
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  4. #24
    The goal is to make every center of the pact, thats how balancing works. Some fights will favor X over Y etc. Sometimes things are overtuned yes. It happens. Balancing 20+ specs to be equal in every scenario is just asking for homoginization(sp?) to the xstream
    I play many games. WoW, Rift, D3, PoE, SC2 I will not criticize your game choice if you don't mine.

  5. #25
    Dreadlord Castozor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nedralixx View Post
    Not sure if serious.... -.-

    A class can't excel at everything. Stop having the logic "omg, omg i'm not topping the meters, QQ blizz". You think a paladin's dps should be higher than a rogues'? A lock's (which is in a lot of fights now, but you get my point). Then, let's roll paladins everyone. Hybrid dps MUST be below traditional dps classes when the only thing they can do is deeps deeps, while hybrid classes have more roads to follow if they wish to.
    Why even have hybrid classes at all then except for healing and tanking? If they were doing sub par dps there is no reason to bring them over pure dps classes. People chose a dps spec and want it to be viable, not some cheap look a like of a pure class. A ret can't just start off tanking in the middle of the battle and neither can a warrior for long periods. And you don't bring your ferals, rets and enhancement shamans for their off-heals nice as they are when pures would all do more dps than hybrids.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nedralixx View Post
    Not sure if serious.... -.-

    A class can't excel at everything. Stop having the logic "omg, omg i'm not topping the meters, QQ blizz". You think a paladin's dps should be higher than a rogues'? A lock's (which is in a lot of fights now, but you get my point). Then, let's roll paladins everyone. Hybrid dps MUST be below traditional dps classes when the only thing they can do is deeps deeps, while hybrid classes have more roads to follow if they wish to.
    The kicker is that most people who play a hybrid class actually identify with the spec, not the class. Which is to say that they identify themselves as Feral or Ret, not Druids and Paladins. It feels unfair to pepole who consider themselves DPSers that they can't do it as well as other people just because they have access to other roles that they don't actually use.

    HOWEVER...

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Blizzard spent about two expansions pointing out this is wrong.
    This is complete bullshit. They hybrid tax is real and has been publicly supported by Blizzard for several years.

    You can disagree with the tax (personally, I do) but you run contrary to Blizzard's stated stance.
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2012-01-26 at 10:30 PM.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  7. #27
    So if you get to be top dog who gets to be middle of the pack and last? Cause someone has to be middle/last.

    Why do you as a paladin deserve to be better than the other DPS classes?

    Blizzard should make every class and skill do 1 damage so then EVERYONE WILL DO EXACTLY THE SAME DPS. *facepalm*

  8. #28
    I like ret the way it is atm it seems pretty balanced (in PvE).I would ushaly be in the top 10 dps in my raid(25 man).
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  9. #29
    And no one is saying anything about PvP?

  10. #30
    I LOVE my ret pally in pve. In my guild i'm top dps (dont flame. its a casual guild. not the best players around) and its nice to top the meters. And if you want ez mode dps just download CLCret. its like playing simon says. Personally i only use it when i need to pay more attention to whats going on (like those stupid charges on warmaster when the priest puts their healing rain type AoE on the melee and i cant see it)

  11. #31
    Mechagnome Artravus's Avatar
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    Ret beats all of the DK specs now. And I'm happy that the game is harder than Wrath. More fun.

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-26 at 07:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Loop View Post
    And we have to be "ok" with middle of the pack ? ;/
    YES. Why would you not be ok with that?? You already have 3 roles you can fill in one class, and then you want Ret to be amazing? You're out of your mind. Just more paladin nonsense I guess. Someone has to be middle of the pack. Why not you? Be happy that you aren't broken like Shaman. Prot and Holy are top tier, why does Ret have to be too? Don't even start on the "hybrid tax". It should be present, but it is not.
    Last edited by Artravus; 2012-01-27 at 12:03 AM.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    How can you say you're okay with being in the middle of the pack and then bitch about being kept in the middle of the pack in the same breath? This doesn't even make sense.
    i'm not bitching about being in the middle of the pack, i'm bitching about the reasons they used to keep us there.
    a non existent bug?
    a weapon that functioned almost exactly the same ( if not better) in the hands of a fellow hybrid gets nerfed in our hands?
    if ret gets nerfed why doesn't arms?


    and frankly ret has been sub par for the whole xpac, we're not talking middle of the pack, we are talking legitimately one of theworst dps specs.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    i'm not bitching about being in the middle of the pack, i'm bitching about the reasons they used to keep us there.
    That's... the same thing.

    and frankly ret has been sub par for the whole xpac, we're not talking middle of the pack, we are talking legitimately one of theworst dps specs.
    Annnnnd, the truth comes out.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  14. #34
    Rets are doing average (note: average isn't bad, every class should be average in a perfect world) in PVE and great in PVP at the moment. I for one am looking forward to MoP as well.

  15. #35
    Judging from the numbers i have seen, we are fine.

  16. #36
    Ret is where everyone should be, middle pack on a static boss.

    Crap AoE, Crap cleave are far more annoying imo and you really can't compete on some fights.

  17. #37
    Herald of the Titans Lothaeryn's Avatar
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    /golfclap everyone, let me do that again!

    /golfclap...

    The OP asked if ret paladins, who are their mains think ret will be fine come MoP, NOT EVERYONE ELSE.

    Anyone who actually played a ret paladin in cataclysm would know that rets werfe the worst fucking excuse for a melee dps aside from enhancement shamans. Raid leaders would prefer a warrior to dps in tanking gear than a ret if rng was any more critical in a ret paladin's rotation.

    Cataclysms holy power system broke the continuity of ret dps, that's why ret is middle pack and not tpping charts. You don't see mages tied down to two minute cooldowns and half of their dps tied up in a rng based resource system, even fire mages get off easy cause their rng doesn't rely on a secondary resource to do good dps.

    Half of you are so damn complacent at being mediocre it sickens me to think you even play the spec in raids at all. My dps as ret went from top 2 to top 7 on a regular basis( in 10 man),simply because my divine purpose would never proc to help me out when I needed it. That is a bad design if you are dependant on something that is entirely out of your control to help you.

    And yes, what of pvp? Not one of you ever spoke a single character of it. And you damn well shouldn't, because none of you seem to understand how broken ret is currently. We received a system that limits our overall output to a 2 minute window, while the rest of the time we mineaswell sit there and auto attack all day. In pvp, our lack of proper gap closing utility has made the spec entirely reliant on outside assitance to even get near our target. No melee dps likes to be handheld through in a competitve environment, and it sickens me again that you all think it is fine and dandy as it is, glad that none of you work for blizzard, but that wouldn't be saying much.

    OP, if you truly want to come back to WoW for MoP, never speak of ret again, play a different class, because this is the type of asinine complacency you will get from people in the game, and currently blizzard gave us a semi usable toolset for our talent system that barely corrects the issues we suffer from in both pve and pvp.

    I wish you the best of luck without WoW otherwise, just know your not alone on your voyage..
    Last edited by Lothaeryn; 2012-01-27 at 06:16 AM.
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  18. #38
    Honestly OP i would recommend come back and re roll i played a ret paladin as my main for two years, but after developers screwed us in cata i completely abandoned my paladin sucks cause i really liked my pally but we got beaten way too hard with the nerf bat for it to be fun anymore.

  19. #39
    Ret Paladin, the only class that has been in development for 7 years.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn
    The OP asked if ret paladins, who are their mains think ret will be fine come MoP, NOT EVERYONE ELSE.

    Anyone who actually played a ret paladin in cataclysm would know that rets werfe the worst fucking excuse for a melee dps aside from enhancement shamans. Raid leaders would prefer a warrior to dps in tanking gear than a ret if rng was any more critical in a ret paladin's rotation.

    Cataclysms holy power system broke the continuity of ret dps, that's why ret is middle pack and not tpping charts. You don't see mages tied down to two minute cooldowns and half of their dps tied up in a rng based resource system, even fire mages get off easy cause their rng doesn't rely on a secondary resource to do good dps.

    Half of you are so damn complacent at being mediocre it sickens me to think you even play the spec in raids at all. My dps as ret went from top 2 to top 7 on a regular basis( in 10 man),simply because my divine purpose would never proc to help me out when I needed it. That is a bad design if you are dependant on something that is entirely out of your control to help you.
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