Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Absolutely pathetic and disgusting attitude. Please, don't come back.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    That's... the same thing.



    Annnnnd, the truth comes out.
    its really not... gosh reading comprehension much?

    being told a mechanic thats been in existence since vanilla and survived multiple class overhauls is a bug is kind of unrealistic. a mechanic that still exists on multiple items? i went and whacked at a dummy with my shadowmourne and seal hits still made it go crazy. i don't remember doing 'to much damage' then.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Whitey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,257
    So basically you're telling us you only want to play if your class/spec is the top dog?

    /facepalm
    WBMA - Leave our beards alone

    Battletag - Whitey#2918 - feel free to add me, I'm a social animal


  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    /golfclap everyone, let me do that again!

    /golfclap...

    The OP asked if ret paladins, who are their mains think ret will be fine come MoP, NOT EVERYONE ELSE.

    Anyone who actually played a ret paladin in cataclysm would know that rets werfe the worst fucking excuse for a melee dps aside from enhancement shamans. Raid leaders would prefer a warrior to dps in tanking gear than a ret if rng was any more critical in a ret paladin's rotation.

    Cataclysms holy power system broke the continuity of ret dps, that's why ret is middle pack and not tpping charts. You don't see mages tied down to two minute cooldowns and half of their dps tied up in a rng based resource system, even fire mages get off easy cause their rng doesn't rely on a secondary resource to do good dps.

    Half of you are so damn complacent at being mediocre it sickens me to think you even play the spec in raids at all. My dps as ret went from top 2 to top 7 on a regular basis( in 10 man),simply because my divine purpose would never proc to help me out when I needed it. That is a bad design if you are dependant on something that is entirely out of your control to help you.

    And yes, what of pvp? Not one of you ever spoke a single character of it. And you damn well shouldn't, because none of you seem to understand how broken ret is currently. We received a system that limits our overall output to a 2 minute window, while the rest of the time we mineaswell sit there and auto attack all day. In pvp, our lack of proper gap closing utility has made the spec entirely reliant on outside assitance to even get near our target. No melee dps likes to be handheld through in a competitve environment, and it sickens me again that you all think it is fine and dandy as it is, glad that none of you work for blizzard, but that wouldn't be saying much.

    OP, if you truly want to come back to WoW for MoP, never speak of ret again, play a different class, because this is the type of asinine complacency you will get from people in the game, and currently blizzard gave us a semi usable toolset for our talent system that barely corrects the issues we suffer from in both pve and pvp.

    I wish you the best of luck without WoW otherwise, just know your not alone on your voyage..
    This is the funniest post I've seen in a very long time. Thanks for the laugh.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  5. #45
    Well, in my guild our two pally tanks have ret as offspec and have been known to top the meters in some fights. I wouldn't say ret dps is bad (based of course in what I've seen of course). Then again, my guild has no main spec ret pallies at the moment (well the other tank technically has main spec as ret but we need him to tank more often, so...).

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    its really not... gosh reading comprehension much?
    Yeah, no. If Blizz Blue posted tomorrow that the company's official stance is that anyone who plays a Ret Paladin is a retard and that they hate each and every one of you on a very personal level and then said, "And because of that, we will never let you be top or bottom of the charts, you will always be middle! Muhahahahaha!"... Your response should be "Sweet! Thanks!"

    However, your previous posts clearly show that you are one of those people who's not happy unless they can put forth minimal effort, have zero skill and still top charts. And thus, your comments are invalid.
    Last edited by Firecrest; 2012-01-27 at 04:30 PM.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  7. #47
    Dreadlord Adeodatus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    858
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    As long as you have that option to "throw occasional heal" then is it really surprising that your dps does not equal that of a pure who can't ?
    As long as hybrids have that advantage, which is most notable in pvp then why should they get both ?
    When you remove all "pure" dps classes' self heals, then we'l talk. Otherwise, hybrid tax makes about as much sense as being afraid to sail because the world is flat. It's an antiquated notion that has no place in WoW, or any other mmo.
    "I'll tell you something, my Tenchi, you know the carnival comes and goes. But if you wait for a while, it'll always come back to you, Tenchi."~Ryoko TENCHIxRYOKO FTW!

    "The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force.
    The Force is the blade of the heart. All are intertwined. The crystal, the blade, the Jedi. You are one.

  8. #48
    Since beginning of Vanilla Retribution has always been a spec to avoid... if not ... patched within 2 weeks...
    There's truly no reasons at all to make a retribution paladin... "0"... better melee in pvp... better specs at soloing... better specs at selfhealin...
    This is the funniest post I've seen in a very long time. Thanks for the laugh.
    Y, thx to let everybody knows u have a brain working as well as the retribution spec... which can be intended as a fair or an unfair thing... I hope it's gonna stay that way....

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    so warriors are NOT hybrids then? just to clear that up.


    its actually not that were bothered by being middle of the pack, we're used to that. its the language and the excuse that blizz used to justify keeping us in the middle of the pack that bothers us.
    My main is a warrior and has been since Vanilla, I did not even consider rets competition inside a raid setting during Wotlk
    However in Cataclysm I am hard pressed to beat one who is equally geared on the damage meter.

    I wont say equal skill however because pallies dps rotation is almost exactly like a warriors however they don't have rage as a hindrance, and thanks to the changes cata brought with heroic strike warriors no longer benefit from infinite rage situations like they did in the good old days.

  10. #50
    I mostly play as Prot, but my OS is Ret and I use it for PvP and some PvE when I occasionally pug Raids.

    In PvE: It's fun if you like proc based play. Sometimes you get a massive chain and sometimes you don't but the DPS swing isn't huge. Movement fights suck but most fights where you can sustain for a while on a single target you'll do respectable damage and won't be sat. It is true that CD usage is a bit repetitive, but that's what the class is built around, and I enjoy popping wings, Zealotry, Inquisition, Trinkets and going at it. Our AoE sucks ass, though, so we blow on trash, but our Boss damage is respectable.

    In PvP: It's a mixed bag, in 2s you can easily get countered depending on your comp. I gave up playing with a healer and running into mana-drain matches over and over so I only do melee-cleave now and you can get countered by some classes (right now, if we're up against druids or Holy Paladins, we have a lot of trouble, but otherwise we're able to manage most other comps.) In 3's we're a bit better, where we can off-heal, use our hands more frequently and we can play a lot more of a support role, plus, for about 15 seconds every few minutes, we can become burning hot knives that slice through resil like nobody's business and if you setup a kill with your partner, most classes will die. And you can easily top KBs in BGs and most damage done even if you spend half the match guarding flags.

    I like Ret a lot and am having fun with it. I think it'll get better in MoP but I have a feeling it'll always be proc-dependent as that's how Blizz seems to be building the class and that's the theme they've stuck with since 4.0.

  11. #51
    The problem isn't being middle of the pack, it's the fact that middle of the pack is 15% below #1 dps. Bottom of the pack is 20% below. That is too big a difference imo there should be no more than 10% difference between 1st and last so middle of the road would be 5% less than top. THAT would be fair.

  12. #52
    According to raidbots.com in 25H for melee classes ret is beating Fury, Assasination, Cats, Enhance, Unholy and Frost. Only specs beating us is Arms, Combat and Subtlety. So we are higher then middle of the pack. It's only smart to rank us with other melee because there are some fights that ranged will just beat us on and that's just something everyone needs to understand. If it wasn't like that then the fights we just be boring.

    Also that was median all fights, if you look at Ultraxion which is the closest we will get to a patchwerk type fight where everyone stands still and everyone is equally buffed (but obviously dps dips because of going into realm), Ret is #3.
    Last edited by davep; 2012-01-27 at 09:14 PM.

  13. #53
    Pandaren Monk Twilightdawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    In your dreams, and in your nightmares
    Posts
    1,867
    Quote Originally Posted by Asacado View Post
    You have no idea how hard it was to drop wow cold turkey, and right before rag was downed. Heck, if I start hearing ret is top dog in pandaria, it may be worth it.
    Why not just reroll instead of quitting, tbh seems like a dumb reason to quit. Ret isn't top now, but it isn't bottom, but i think more people should adopt the mentality of " I strive to be the top of my groups dps chart " Not, I strive to be the top of the WORLDS dps chart "

  14. #54
    High Overlord Berianther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    164
    Ret is pretty well balanced right now. I don't like the OP's attitude. It does take some skill to play ret, and it's not as faceroll as most people think. I still like it with good rng, it's possible to beat legendary casters.

  15. #55
    Grunt Jenner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, and it's beautiful
    Posts
    13
    At raidbots, if you change the data to all parses instead of simply the very best of the best the spread isn't all that much. Retribution ist in a bad state. Additionally, instead of looking at simply positioning on the chart, look at the difference of DPS from highest to current. Roughly 3.5k when you're talking about 34k to 37.5k DPS is roughly a 7ish percent difference?

    Other classes have a more legitimate concern to middling DPS. In my unfounded, ideal world of DPS, all three specs from the DPS only classes would be tied closely at the top with us (hybrid classes) below.

  16. #56
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The ass end of nowhere AKA Kansas.
    Posts
    2,656
    While it is true that Ret's damage potential is decent assuming RNG isn't being a b!tch to you there are still plenty of other problems with the spec.

    Sadly these problems are so deep seeded within the spec they are unlikely to ever be addressed unless blizzard has a major change of heart where it comes to putting actual hard work & effort into designing ret in the first place instead of just throwing shit together at the last second & trying to band aid fix it later as they always have.

    That being said your best bet is to reroll something else & keep it at least as well geared as your paladin. I say this because in the event that paladins become any worse you will then at least have something else to play & if by chance Ghost Crawler should pull a miracle out of his fat ass & bring ret paladins up to the point where they are as well designed as some of the other spec you will still have your paladin.

    There is also the option of simply waiting for guild wars 2 to come out. I say this because Arena.net has a very good track record for making sure all classes & designed with equal care in the first place unlike certain other companies. Also from the look of the Alpha & Beta information available so far guild wars seems like it will have great gameplay & a much more personalized story then WOW or most other MMO's.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenner View Post
    At raidbots, if you change the data to all parses instead of simply the very best of the best the spread isn't all that much. Retribution ist in a bad state. Additionally, instead of looking at simply positioning on the chart, look at the difference of DPS from highest to current. Roughly 3.5k when you're talking about 34k to 37.5k DPS is roughly a 7ish percent difference?

    Other classes have a more legitimate concern to middling DPS. In my unfounded, ideal world of DPS, all three specs from the DPS only classes would be tied closely at the top with us (hybrid classes) below.
    Im sorry, Im not sure I understand why you would not use the top 100. These are the people pushing the class to the max and thus the only real comparison of class dps. Using 25 heroic top 100 ret is about 9% off top melee and 25% off top dps. The issue is the spread is too large. And once and for all there should be NO HYBRID tax. A ret paladin CANNOT heal or tank while specced ret. When specced ret a pally IS a pure dps class. Oh and btw the top melee dps right now is a "hybrid" and the difference between middle dps and rock bottom is less than 5%.

    The bottom line is that until they seperate PvP and PvE coefficients there will NEVER be balance PvE is continually screwed with to try to balance pvp
    Last edited by Selgar; 2012-01-28 at 06:26 AM.

  18. #58
    Grunt Jenner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, and it's beautiful
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Selgar View Post
    Im sorry, Im not sure I understand why you would not use the top 100. These are the people pushing the class to the max and thus the only real comparison of class dps. Using 25 heroic top 100 ret is about 9% off top melee and 25% off top dps. The issue is the spread is too large. And once and for all there should be NO HYBRID tax. A ret paladin CANNOT heal or tank while specced ret. When specced ret a pally IS a pure dps class. Oh and btw the top melee dps right now is a "hybrid" and the difference between middle dps and rock bottom is less than 5%.

    The bottom line is that until they seperate PvP and PvE coefficients there will NEVER be balance PvE is continually screwed with to try to balance pvp
    I seperate them becuase the top 100 represent such a small part of the poplution. They do not accurately represent the class realistically for the vast majority of other players. Sure, they may be the realization of theoretical caps, but it's a meaningless comparison to anyone that doesn't have access to BiS, farmed heroic raids, consumables, limitless time, and guild members with the like-mindedness to help you push your DPS to the maximum. DPS and DPS alone is not a vacuum for which players solely play WoW.

    The tendency to focus on DPS to the exclusion of all else leads to the hybrid tax arguement. The hybrid tax does not refer to your role at any one point, but your options as the class as a whole. If DPS in a heroic raid setting was all there was, then a much more uniform spread with small percent changes would be the goal, but WoW isn't just about DPS. Your character has access to a broad range of metrics that reflect time and effort you put into the character. Achievements, companion pets, mounts, gear, social reputation, emotional investment and more all contribute to the entire experience. And they matter to millions playing this game. A player that has invested this time and energy into a class that can only DPS does not have the option of altering their game play without switching to another class and losing the time investment. Players who have chosen a hybrid class do have that option, at any time, only losing the investment with current accessible gear.

    In regard to the Arms Warrior, I found that on both top 100 and all parses data, that on individual fights there were an equal amount of bosses where both were top DPS, obviously on fights that cater to their strengths. This excluded Spine and Madness as the data for heroic is incomplete. And again, on all parses, the diferrence between rock bottom was the same as the very top. Even on the top 100 you can't look at the difference between the number 1 spot and anything else. The vast majority of fights the gap between spot 1 and 2 is several times greater than 2 and 3 and so on. These are gimmick numbers where all efforts were focused to expand the natural DPS's leader on that fight's gap even further.

    I do agree with the seperation of PvE and PvP. More than anything, this seems like the best path to more control over balance in both areas of play.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ot4ku-mh View Post
    You mean unlike rogues? ^^

    On topic: imo ret is quite good. If you add in all the procs, cd usage etc. the prio system is good enough (for me at least) and you can do really good damage.
    Rogues are just self-healing, and not potentially themselves and other party/raid members.
    The "off-roles" of hybrids are simply too good in pvp.

    In particular the tanking or healing abilities of dps specced hybrids are enough to not only boost their own survibility, but that of other team members.
    And they can do without any substantial penalty.
    When you do that there should be consequences when currently there are none.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Lothaeryn View Post
    /golfclap everyone, let me do that again!

    /golfclap...

    The OP asked if ret paladins, who are their mains think ret will be fine come MoP, NOT EVERYONE ELSE.

    Anyone who actually played a ret paladin in cataclysm would know that rets werfe the worst fucking excuse for a melee dps aside from enhancement shamans. Raid leaders would prefer a warrior to dps in tanking gear than a ret if rng was any more critical in a ret paladin's rotation.

    Cataclysms holy power system broke the continuity of ret dps, that's why ret is middle pack and not tpping charts. You don't see mages tied down to two minute cooldowns and half of their dps tied up in a rng based resource system, even fire mages get off easy cause their rng doesn't rely on a secondary resource to do good dps.

    Half of you are so damn complacent at being mediocre it sickens me to think you even play the spec in raids at all. My dps as ret went from top 2 to top 7 on a regular basis( in 10 man),simply because my divine purpose would never proc to help me out when I needed it. That is a bad design if you are dependant on something that is entirely out of your control to help you.

    And yes, what of pvp? Not one of you ever spoke a single character of it. And you damn well shouldn't, because none of you seem to understand how broken ret is currently. We received a system that limits our overall output to a 2 minute window, while the rest of the time we mineaswell sit there and auto attack all day. In pvp, our lack of proper gap closing utility has made the spec entirely reliant on outside assitance to even get near our target. No melee dps likes to be handheld through in a competitve environment, and it sickens me again that you all think it is fine and dandy as it is, glad that none of you work for blizzard, but that wouldn't be saying much.

    OP, if you truly want to come back to WoW for MoP, never speak of ret again, play a different class, because this is the type of asinine complacency you will get from people in the game, and currently blizzard gave us a semi usable toolset for our talent system that barely corrects the issues we suffer from in both pve and pvp.

    I wish you the best of luck without WoW otherwise, just know your not alone on your voyage..
    Except for the nerdrage, I pretty much agree with you. But as said multiple times, You decide what you play, not blizzard nor anyone here. If you play ret and are aware of its strengths and weaknesses (as I see you do) and keep playing it, that must be because you see more pros than cons on it.

    I play ret because I like to have a class that's not even imba and pull great numbers, because the satisfaction of being a good retribution paladin is above the satisfaction of being a good arcane mage.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •