Absolutely pathetic and disgusting attitude. Please, don't come back.
Absolutely pathetic and disgusting attitude. Please, don't come back.
being told a mechanic thats been in existence since vanilla and survived multiple class overhauls is a bug is kind of unrealistic. a mechanic that still exists on multiple items? i went and whacked at a dummy with my shadowmourne and seal hits still made it go crazy. i don't remember doing 'to much damage' then.
" I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"
So basically you're telling us you only want to play if your class/spec is the top dog?
WBMA - Leave our beards alone
Well, in my guild our two pally tanks have ret as offspec and have been known to top the meters in some fights. I wouldn't say ret dps is bad (based of course in what I've seen of course). Then again, my guild has no main spec ret pallies at the moment (well the other tank technically has main spec as ret but we need him to tank more often, so...).
However, your previous posts clearly show that you are one of those people who's not happy unless they can put forth minimal effort, have zero skill and still top charts. And thus, your comments are invalid.
Last edited by Firecrest; 2012-01-27 at 04:30 PM.
"I'll tell you something, my Tenchi, you know the carnival comes and goes. But if you wait for a while, it'll always come back to you, Tenchi."~Ryoko TENCHIxRYOKO FTW!
"The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force.
The Force is the blade of the heart. All are intertwined. The crystal, the blade, the Jedi. You are one.
Since beginning of Vanilla Retribution has always been a spec to avoid... if not ... patched within 2 weeks...
There's truly no reasons at all to make a retribution paladin... "0"... better melee in pvp... better specs at soloing... better specs at selfhealin...
Y, thx to let everybody knows u have a brain working as well as the retribution spec... which can be intended as a fair or an unfair thing... I hope it's gonna stay that way....This is the funniest post I've seen in a very long time. Thanks for the laugh.
However in Cataclysm I am hard pressed to beat one who is equally geared on the damage meter.
I wont say equal skill however because pallies dps rotation is almost exactly like a warriors however they don't have rage as a hindrance, and thanks to the changes cata brought with heroic strike warriors no longer benefit from infinite rage situations like they did in the good old days.
I mostly play as Prot, but my OS is Ret and I use it for PvP and some PvE when I occasionally pug Raids.
In PvE: It's fun if you like proc based play. Sometimes you get a massive chain and sometimes you don't but the DPS swing isn't huge. Movement fights suck but most fights where you can sustain for a while on a single target you'll do respectable damage and won't be sat. It is true that CD usage is a bit repetitive, but that's what the class is built around, and I enjoy popping wings, Zealotry, Inquisition, Trinkets and going at it. Our AoE sucks ass, though, so we blow on trash, but our Boss damage is respectable.
In PvP: It's a mixed bag, in 2s you can easily get countered depending on your comp. I gave up playing with a healer and running into mana-drain matches over and over so I only do melee-cleave now and you can get countered by some classes (right now, if we're up against druids or Holy Paladins, we have a lot of trouble, but otherwise we're able to manage most other comps.) In 3's we're a bit better, where we can off-heal, use our hands more frequently and we can play a lot more of a support role, plus, for about 15 seconds every few minutes, we can become burning hot knives that slice through resil like nobody's business and if you setup a kill with your partner, most classes will die. And you can easily top KBs in BGs and most damage done even if you spend half the match guarding flags.
I like Ret a lot and am having fun with it. I think it'll get better in MoP but I have a feeling it'll always be proc-dependent as that's how Blizz seems to be building the class and that's the theme they've stuck with since 4.0.
The problem isn't being middle of the pack, it's the fact that middle of the pack is 15% below #1 dps. Bottom of the pack is 20% below. That is too big a difference imo there should be no more than 10% difference between 1st and last so middle of the road would be 5% less than top. THAT would be fair.
According to raidbots.com in 25H for melee classes ret is beating Fury, Assasination, Cats, Enhance, Unholy and Frost. Only specs beating us is Arms, Combat and Subtlety. So we are higher then middle of the pack. It's only smart to rank us with other melee because there are some fights that ranged will just beat us on and that's just something everyone needs to understand. If it wasn't like that then the fights we just be boring.
Also that was median all fights, if you look at Ultraxion which is the closest we will get to a patchwerk type fight where everyone stands still and everyone is equally buffed (but obviously dps dips because of going into realm), Ret is #3.
Last edited by davep; 2012-01-27 at 09:14 PM.
At raidbots, if you change the data to all parses instead of simply the very best of the best the spread isn't all that much. Retribution ist in a bad state. Additionally, instead of looking at simply positioning on the chart, look at the difference of DPS from highest to current. Roughly 3.5k when you're talking about 34k to 37.5k DPS is roughly a 7ish percent difference?
Other classes have a more legitimate concern to middling DPS. In my unfounded, ideal world of DPS, all three specs from the DPS only classes would be tied closely at the top with us (hybrid classes) below.
While it is true that Ret's damage potential is decent assuming RNG isn't being a b!tch to you there are still plenty of other problems with the spec.
Sadly these problems are so deep seeded within the spec they are unlikely to ever be addressed unless blizzard has a major change of heart where it comes to putting actual hard work & effort into designing ret in the first place instead of just throwing shit together at the last second & trying to band aid fix it later as they always have.
That being said your best bet is to reroll something else & keep it at least as well geared as your paladin. I say this because in the event that paladins become any worse you will then at least have something else to play & if by chance Ghost Crawler should pull a miracle out of his fat ass & bring ret paladins up to the point where they are as well designed as some of the other spec you will still have your paladin.
There is also the option of simply waiting for guild wars 2 to come out. I say this because Arena.net has a very good track record for making sure all classes & designed with equal care in the first place unlike certain other companies. Also from the look of the Alpha & Beta information available so far guild wars seems like it will have great gameplay & a much more personalized story then WOW or most other MMO's.
The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.
The bottom line is that until they seperate PvP and PvE coefficients there will NEVER be balance PvE is continually screwed with to try to balance pvp
Last edited by Selgar; 2012-01-28 at 06:26 AM.
The tendency to focus on DPS to the exclusion of all else leads to the hybrid tax arguement. The hybrid tax does not refer to your role at any one point, but your options as the class as a whole. If DPS in a heroic raid setting was all there was, then a much more uniform spread with small percent changes would be the goal, but WoW isn't just about DPS. Your character has access to a broad range of metrics that reflect time and effort you put into the character. Achievements, companion pets, mounts, gear, social reputation, emotional investment and more all contribute to the entire experience. And they matter to millions playing this game. A player that has invested this time and energy into a class that can only DPS does not have the option of altering their game play without switching to another class and losing the time investment. Players who have chosen a hybrid class do have that option, at any time, only losing the investment with current accessible gear.
In regard to the Arms Warrior, I found that on both top 100 and all parses data, that on individual fights there were an equal amount of bosses where both were top DPS, obviously on fights that cater to their strengths. This excluded Spine and Madness as the data for heroic is incomplete. And again, on all parses, the diferrence between rock bottom was the same as the very top. Even on the top 100 you can't look at the difference between the number 1 spot and anything else. The vast majority of fights the gap between spot 1 and 2 is several times greater than 2 and 3 and so on. These are gimmick numbers where all efforts were focused to expand the natural DPS's leader on that fight's gap even further.
I do agree with the seperation of PvE and PvP. More than anything, this seems like the best path to more control over balance in both areas of play.
The "off-roles" of hybrids are simply too good in pvp.
In particular the tanking or healing abilities of dps specced hybrids are enough to not only boost their own survibility, but that of other team members.
And they can do without any substantial penalty.
When you do that there should be consequences when currently there are none.
I play ret because I like to have a class that's not even imba and pull great numbers, because the satisfaction of being a good retribution paladin is above the satisfaction of being a good arcane mage.