Dragon Soul is a raid for the dps.

[Johnmatrix]

Dragon Souls design and bosses have been mocked for weeks now, with every single way possible i think. I was not happy with the amount of bosses either. But there is one thing i love about dragon soul: Blizzard designers have clearly thought about dps classes this time.

I mean dps for the sake of maxing your numbers. Encounters that let and force you to do maximum dps. There are only a few "be aware of something"-mechancis and a lot of "dmg increased for x%" mechanics. It might make the raid easier mechanic wise, but it challenges you dps wise (some people face challenge in normal ultraxion, most in heroic bosses just because of low dps). The reason I like this is that it challenges you to know your character, and to research and do everything to max out your dps. Bad players of their class can learn mechanics in 5 tries, but not improve 10k in dps.

Firelands was shit if you watch it with a similar POV. Bethilac was dumb with all those small adds to dps down there, alysrazor only had 1 caster dpsing him properly while others killed adds, ryolith and his damned legs D:, majordomo who seemed to have increased parry chance during cooldown phases (:P) and had to be dps'd in front. I loved raggy fight but it was not a dps race in normal either. Most hc modes could be cleared without great dps because of the lack of tight enrages. Firelands mostly did not encourage you to get better as dps.

Ultraxion is a dps dummy, but in a good way. His enrage can be tuned tighter because of the lack of other mechanics. I like a boss that tests you as a player of your class. I've never seen as much topics about guilds wiping on a boss simply because they can't beat the enrage, as i am now. Even in normal mode. I feel better for being a good player of my class and getting result with that instead of "switch between 4 pointless adds" or "move here and wait 20 secs" mechanics that everyone can learn fast.

Zon ozz is a dps dummy. Apart of the bouncing, he was very few mechanics on normal, but he has a mechanic that makes him take more damage. That kind of mechanic makes dps simply more fun for me. This kind of fight beats bethilac and rhyolith (my most hated bosses in FL) 100-0. A boss that seems to have been created only with high dps numbers in mind. I don't see what's wrong with that.

TL; DR This is only my POV but DS is a raid designed with dps players in mind. It's about getting and having to do dps more than anything else.

[Phaild0rf]

Not true at all, for example Yor Sahj heroic is also very much a healer fight due to the debuff handling and mana voids etc.
Warmaster heroic needs a LOAD of healing too as does spine heroic..

It's not so much a 'raid for the dps', it's more that this raid is all about throughput by everyone. I don't know how far you are into it on heroic or even normal, but as we progress we see a trend where the raid is all just about the numbers. Healing wise and damage wise.

[Deleted]

Ragnaros heroic and most tier 11 bosses were better designed from a DPS point of view. Only Warmaster stands out as a good dps fight in DS (only good fight if you play ranged though, not very challenging as melee).

[Deleted]

Kinda agree, and i love it that way actually.

[Johnmatrix]

I did not mean that this raid is all about dps, it's about lot more ofc. Im 1/8 HC atm and most likely pretty far away from 2/8 due to healers who seem to change every week, always with a worse gear than the other... Yor sahj was close before last healers bailed (server change and other did not show up) and ultraxion was fun and went pretty well too.

I meant that in this raid you can finally max out your numbers because you are not forced to do crap, or run away to lower the uptime on the boss. Its a raid where dps can do what they are created for.

[NoHealsForYou]

TL;DR
The op wants to stand still and faceroll his priority que instead of actually doing PROPPER stuff like correct target swaps (yor'sahj hc), burst dps followed by steady dps at the right moments (spine hc), movement (morchok hc) or teamwork (hagara lightning phase hc). The challening part is not only to do ALL of that stuff well, but to put out high dps at the same time. I hope you never design games...You might as well just faceroll a dummy for ten hours a week.

[Omgwtfbbq]

I do like to face a gearcheck boss from time to time, but not too often, 1-2 per raid instance are max, i often find much more joy when facing a problem of proper coordination and execution. Doing 5-10k dps less than everyone to proper execute some mechanics that would otherwise cause the raid to wipe is far more satisfying for me. Altho its best if you combine both (mimiron, algalon, leotheras come to mind)

[Johnmatrix]

TL;DR
The op wants to stand still and faceroll his priority que instead of actually doing PROPPER stuff like correct target swaps (yor'sahj hc), burst dps followed by steady dps at the right moments (spine hc), movement (morchok hc) or teamwork (hagara lightning phase hc). The challening part is not only to do ALL of that stuff well, but to put out high dps at the same time. I hope you never design games...You might as well just faceroll a dummy for ten hours a week.

Looks like my post made you offensive somehow... I might have placed my words in a wrong way because you did not see my point. And I told that I like the bosses in Dragon Sould dps-wise, and you take them as examples of bosses i don't want to do? HC morchok is not a dps test but it's fun. HC yor sahj has switches but switches that make sense and still good uptime and tight enrage. What i would use as comparison is beth'ilac. A boss where most of the raid runs killing small spiders with a relatively low uptime on anything. Then after many minutes we get to dps the boss for a while. I don't see that a PROPPER stuff to do as you say it.

[Deleted]

TL;DR
The op wants to stand still and faceroll his priority que instead of actually doing PROPPER stuff like correct target swaps (yor'sahj hc), burst dps followed by steady dps at the right moments (spine hc), movement (morchok hc) or teamwork (hagara lightning phase hc). The challening part is not only to do ALL of that stuff well, but to put out high dps at the same time. I hope you never design games...You might as well just faceroll a dummy for ten hours a week.

yeah thats what i got. i mean... it is hard to do something other than tunnel vision your rotation and max your numbers while the rest of the guild do other mechanics related to the boss.

[Deleted]

Firelands was shit if you watch it with a similar POV. Bethilac was dumb with all those small adds to dps down there, alysrazor only had 1 caster dpsing him properly while others killed adds, ryolith and his damned legs D:, majordomo who seemed to have increased parry chance during cooldown phases (:P) and had to be dps'd in front. I loved raggy fight but it was not a dps race in normal either. Most hc modes could be cleared without great dps because of the lack of tight enrages. Firelands mostly did not encourage you to get better as dps.

I'm sorry you didn't see any fighs on heroic before they got nerfed.

[Grogo]

TL;DR
The op wants to stand still and faceroll his priority que instead of actually doing PROPPER stuff like correct target swaps (yor'sahj hc), burst dps followed by steady dps at the right moments (spine hc), movement (morchok hc) or teamwork (hagara lightning phase hc). The challening part is not only to do ALL of that stuff well, but to put out high dps at the same time. I hope you never design games...You might as well just faceroll a dummy for ten hours a week.

Yeah but too much of that is just annoying as well. Need a good mixed bag but not overdue it to the point it is just a movement at the right time fight. Need a design that challenges each class role, either a few bosses per raid or on all fights in that dungeon.

[Deleted]

It's also one of the most unbalanced raids as far as DPS goes, with every fight having extremely heavy favor towards 1-2 specs (especially mage and rogue specs) to the point where bringing that one specific spec can literally make or break the fight. So uh, no, I'd have to disagree that it was made particularly well for DPSers.

As far the idea that DS requires you to maximize your DPS... yes, it does. So did every boss in FL with the exception of Shannox, and a lot of bosses in T11. If you think FL didn't "encourage you to maximize your DPS" then you clearly didn't do it on heroic pre-nerfs. That's complete bullshit, every fight except Shannox had it's own form of soft and hard enrages and requires improving DPS numbers to beat them. The same goes for a lot of the T11 fights, you ever do H Cho'gal pre-nerf? H Magmaw pre-nerf?

I can go even further back to fights like ICC and Ulduar that hard really tight enrage timers, DS is not the first raid to do this by a long shot, there's nothing unique about it.

[Deleted]

What i would use as comparison is beth'ilac. A boss where most of the raid runs killing small spiders with a relatively low uptime on anything. Then after many minutes we get to dps the boss for a while. I don't see that a PROPPER stuff to do as you say it.

That's fine and all, but are you forgotting the fact that bosses like Baleroc, Majordomo and Ragnaros all had extremely tight enrage timers before the first nerfs (on heroic of course)?

There will always be bosses that have super tight enrages (Baleroc, Ultraxion) and bosses which require you do a lot of something different (Bethilac, Hagara), and of course bosses that are really complex and require both (Ragnaros).

I don't really see anything "special" in this tier compared to Firelands in that regard. And please don't bring up LFR where you can stand still and dps boss the most optimal way you possibly can, it's not really relevant.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry you didn't see any fighs on heroic before they got nerfed.

When did they get nerfed? Last time I checked patch 4.3.2 hadn't dropped yet. Maybe add something constructive next time.

OT: personal opinion, face roll DPS is not fun.

[Deleted]

When did they get nerfed? Last time I checked patch 4.3.2 hadn't dropped yet. Maybe add something constructive next time.

How about you read the post before trying to sound like a smart-ass? He was talking about the FL nerf since the person he quoted was saying that FL had no hard DPS requirements. He even bolded the part in his quote specifically referring to Firelands.

[UunaPriest]

As others have said, there are more mechanics to worry about in heroic, much more healing, Normal mode has very low dps requirements.
Madness is really the only fight that gives undue high numbers.
Ultraxion is the closest thing to a patchwerk style fight, and even it has soaking orders and fading lights to deal with on heroic.

[salamala]

OP if what you say is true, Blizzard should avoid designing raids 'for the dps' in the future.

[odioushealer]

It's funny that you say that, because what I love about dragon soul is that I really feel that the fights were designed with healers in mind. There are so many different types of healing required to get you through the various encounters, and because of the hard dps requirements, you can't just pick up an extra healer to trivialize an encounter (except for the all too obvious heroic morchok). Think about it, though: Yor's purple debuff, Zon's split group healing, Spine's debuff, Hagara's lightning phase, Ultraxion's healing buffs, and that's just naming a few. Many of these mechanics were designed with healers in mind to keep all the fights interesting. It feels like most of the bosses in firelands were simply just asking you to heal the damage done, while dragon soul asks for a lot more from healers and keeps it interesting for them.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I like that your group is stuck after morchok. I've noticed that many groups hit a brick wall after this fight because the remaining heroics ask a lot more from your healers, and you can no longer get by just by picking up one with good gear. While with DPS you can usually tell who isn't keeping up due to damage meters, it's not so simple for healers, but dragon soul really does ask you to pick up healers who understand their class. I like knowing that I'm not easily replaceable, but more than that, I like being able to play my class to the best of my abilities.

[Darkfrosty]

Don't really agree since you are only 1/8 HM I can see how you think its about DPS since all the normal fights are so easy and do pretty much just allow the dps to stand still and attack. Once you actually get into the fun and difficult fights Id say its much more about the heals. Beating the enrage timers on HM Yor, Zon, Ultra, and Hag are all fairly easy if you have decently skilled DPS. Keeping ppl alive is far more difficult I would say.

Deff an instance where the heals have tho shine.

[iceberg265]

Your definition of "raid for DPS" sounds pretty similar to my definition of "raid for bads". Which it is, cause LFD.