1. #1

    LFG Tool: How to make it better?

    I am a veteran of WoW and some dabbling with EQ and Shadowbane before that. I have played at the top of the game (top 5-10% one of three guilds on my server who more then 2 bosses on Naxx), and at the most casual level. I am also a strong proponent of the LFG tool.

    The reason I am stating this is to give context on my opinions.

    Bioware will introduce the LFD tool, and while the community is polarized to the needs of one, they have confirmed it.

    The goal of this thread is purely one to IMPROVE a tool that we have no say in. Please do not argue that the best implementation is none, that's not what this thread is for.

    Blizzards implementation has it's strengths and weaknesses. The ability to kick is limited so it's not abused, how can that be improved? The anonymity makes certain players act without respect for others, ninjaing and being belligerent: How can that be improved? Blizzard has nerfed content to make it easier to do with an unorganized group: How can that be improved.

    I have heard so many different opinions, and I am sure we have a lot of SMART players on this forum. Let's try to figure out changes in the LFG implementation that could improve it.

    Here are a few of mine:
    Optional server only flag. This would have the people that want the community feel to stay, it would force more respect onto the players. It would also filter those that KNOWINGLY go in to do wrong, since they don't care about their rep, they will always toggle this option.
    Cross Server ignore list used to filter the ppl you never want to see again. This is not very feasible, but it's an idea.
    Tiered "groups" of instances, ranked from easier, to harder. Players would get to tailor the difficulty they are interested in. Once again, even I can see the issues here, but it's something to think about. Maybe the hardest aren't in LFG since they would require a level of coordination you can't get. Maybe you need to do an easier one with your group and everyone needs to vote if they want to unlock the harder one's when finished since you know what you are getting into.
    Rating sytem: Ebay style rating system that follows a player around, with comments. Automatic remover of "outlier" stats like a really poor rating or a really high rating to avoid "gaming" the system.

    Please keep this post constructive. To those who want the LFG, even you can admit it has flaws that can be worked on. To those who hate it, it's coming, might as well try to make it a little more tolerable for yourselves.

  2. #2
    Optional server only flag is a good idea, or IMO a time limit. The first 30-60 minutes you are in queue it looks at server only, after that if needed it will try to pull from another server. Even after to time limit it will still place preference to players on your server. I do believe that with the current population on some servers that this would almost be required in some sense if they do not merge servers soon.

    Personally I like the idea of an ignore list. A personal ignore list, you are right though, is just not feasible, even if you do not ignore someone, you will probably never see them again cross server. However, if you could share your ignore list with friends/guild then I think it would be. This would keep people accountable for thier actions if it isn't just 1-2 people they can no longer group with, but 1-2 entire guilds, possibly more if guilds share their ignore lists among each other. I would also prefer if it were a Legacy/Account wide ignore. If I feel strongly enough to place someone on my ignore list I don't want to have anything to do with that player, not just that Char.

    Not too sure about Tiered groups, I mean I guess you could do iLvl restrictions like WoW, but I don't really like that either.

    If there was a rating, it would either get mostly not used or mostly abused I think. It is an interesting idea though. It would be worth a shot at least, but would have to be closely monitored.

  3. #3
    While making people able to select hardER things is interesting, putting anything actually challenging in it will result in an enormous complaint storm (see start of Cata). Having said that, here is how I would implement it:
    LFD is easier and awards less of the same level of gear/tokens - "easy" people can still progress, "hard" people are still motivated. If have no group for "hard", you can still run LFD and progress.
    Not feasible to run too often - some sort of system to discourage excessive farming. Instead of giving 10 commendations each, give 15 for first and 2 less for each one after (example). The worst thing is when you "have to" run something.
    No penalty for leaving group - if you leave, you should at least be able to re-queue instantly. Imo WoW had too much penalty for leaving, and prevented you from taking more time and finding a group you wanted. Don't forget, there are perfectly legit reasons to leave, even after just zoning in (same guild premade, people afk, etc).
    Proper Vote-kick option that is useable many times, without ridiculous cooldowns. If 3 people hate the 4th so much they are prepared to wait, for example, 15 mins to kick him, they really should be able to.

    The problems I see with OP ideas:
    Optional server only flag. - will have more wait time for both the people who prefer server LFD and people who prefer cross-server. My prediction: everyone will eventually gravitate to cross-server, and not because they really want to, but just to shorten queues.
    Rating sytem: - it's a chore to set marks for everyone, and most will not do so. Considering this, the already gigantic amount of instances you need to have run for the system to spot any trend whatsoever, becomes even larger. A much simpler system is a Like/Dislike one similar to Youtube (i.e. "This player grouped with 20 people, 5 likes, 5 dislikes, 10 didnt give a crap"). It would have to ignore points from your premade group members. Comments, while nice in theory, are a huge sink of space, think of all the "olololololo im typing a comment bros" lines you will get there.
    Last edited by Vulturia; 2012-01-28 at 12:36 AM.
    Players will no longer randomly suffer falling damage.

  4. #4
    Yeah, some of those ideas were pretty brain dead. I was at work and haven't had much time to think on it. This weekend I will try to think of more.

    The Like / Dislike would be simple enough. Maybe even an MVP system that wouldn't reward, but at least allow you to accumulate some stars?

    You are right about the optional flag, while at first it would be great, eventually it will just be the default to go Xserver.

    I agree with some of the other ideas, the penalties one isn't a bad idea, but what's to stop someone from cycling through and choosing their instances. Then agian, if they can do that, maybe they will try harder not to get kicked.

  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire
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    Unless something has changed recently, I'm pretty sure Bioware remain opposed to cross server tools such as this. And therein lies many of the problems with WoW's dungeon tool as you have outlined. The tool they refer to will likely be own server only.

    As for the difficulty issue I favour a somewhat uncompromising approach - keep the difficulty of the hard mode FP's the same; continue making them reasonably challenging. Disorganised groups ought to be forced to become organised to complete these dungeons: hard mode should remain "hard". There is simply no long term future in handing people items this early in an MMO's lifespan - its my opinion that Blizzard's approach is at least in part a simple milking of their playerbase in order to hold onto as many subs as they can before they eventually can WoW in favour of Titan.

  6. #6
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Leave it as a tool for normal groups.

    Keep heroic flash points heroic. Other than that whatever.

  7. #7
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    1) Like/dislike feature. You can mark people whom you really liked to play with (only random, not premade) and people whom you hated playing with. People with a lot of LIKES get a special mark and maybe a priority in queue.

    2) Comprehensive loot system, or even individualized loot drops. Fighting over loot brings out the worst in people.

    3) Vote kicking system that is based on participation and isn't arbitrary. For example the system that wouldn't allow you to vote kick a player if he isn't AFK and is contributing to the encounter.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Maythael's Avatar
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    I like many of the ideas, and if implemented could make me an proponent of a LFD (or 'LFF') tool.
    The dislike/like thing sounds interesting, but I'd rather have a "like" button only. I dislike negatives. :3

    The difficulty level of encounters are greatly relived by CC. Put CC in the encounters - like the clickable vessels that are in the game already, the freezing one and the gas cloud one. Maybe there could be an "add extra CC" or even "lowers the cooldown on your CC abilities by X seconds"/"your attacks have a chance to stun 'up to' elite mobs" button but make the loot drops a few ratings lower, and such, rather than reduced damage and health.

    I liked Vulturias idea of a 'run too often' restriction that discourages you to farm a Flashpoint rather than forbids you to run them at all.
    Last edited by Maythael; 2012-01-28 at 08:47 AM.

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