Spirit for resto's

[NightZero88]

I'm curious as to what people's thoughts are for running spirit. Currently am doing DS 7/8 (my sheet says 8/8 because I cleared madness with another guild) and we're stuck on Madness. We are two healing one tanking the fight and not making progress. I know the reason why is because of our dps but that's not the issue for this post.

My char sheet: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Beakerz/simple

I currently run as you can see (after some gear upgrades) with 1900 spirit, 0 furor and 2/3 moonglow. In normal modes we 2 heal everything except Zon, Ultrax and Spine. Now in every fight so far I have no issues with mana or keeping everyone alive (DS is easy). However, in Madness we're struggling with 2 healers though this also relates to our DPS being bad and not being able to swap to 3 heal/2 tank model. I am always below our 2nd druid healer and generally above the shammy in most fights but we're all very close.

I currently run 3*LB on tank and toss out hots, SM, etc as needed and when not doing anything nourish spam the tank to keep LB and harmony up (I know how to heal as a druid). I am also very conservative with my mana while our other druid seems to not be. He doesn't OOM but he finishes fights significantly lower in mana than I do but our overall HPS is very close as per recount. This is likely attributed to the fact that he tosses out heals more liberally while running a spec with more regen and more spirit while I am less liberal with heals but run a spec that gives more bang for my buck.

So the question is, after clearing madness with the other guild, their rdruid was running with 3000 spirit and the trinket that gives 700 more. His highest healing spell was rejuv at 44% and while he only beat me by about 2k hps it was about 2 mil healing difference (they 3 healed). Also, I was by far the lowest geared player but not terribly low. Is running high amounts of spirit and going back to blanket rejuv spam (while maintaining other HoTs) the way to go now for progression?

TLDR: Is it better to run a high spirit, high regen talent spec and toss out heals freely or run with being more conservative with heals while doing progression fights?

EDIT: Keep in mind my ilevel of equipped gear is 388 vs the other two druids I was facing being 392 and 393 respectively.

[Catokot]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Catokot/simple - My armory

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r.../?s=758&e=1404 - our kill last night

A couple things to note - I dropped my t12 2 pc to see how terrible the mana difference was for this fight. I don't need the mana for any other fights we're doing, and figured I'd test it on this one. We had a few... mishaps. On the third platform the blistering tentacles spawned while the corruption was at like 80%, which was why the tank took a second impale. Our holy paladin lagged and ate a shrapnel at the end. It was a "very" sloppy kill. Had it been smooth, I doubt I would have had mana issues. Obviously I'm much, much more geared than you are so I have a lot more mana to throw around regardless.

I would definitely pick up 2/3 furor, as your gear doesn't warrant swapping to 3/3 furor. Try to pick up an mp5 trinket, jaws is ideal. The trinket has such amazing synergy our instants. The t12 2 pc is a very respectable amount of mana (gave me 56k mana in a 10:12 kill last week). Thats almost an extra 2 innervates, and if dps is the issue your fights are probably a few minutes longer.

We've always 1 tanked 2 healed this fight since the first week of DS, and I never really felt mana issues on the fight as long as we executed properly. Fixing the small things will go a long ways. If you spread out properly for the corruption, only one person should get hit on each crush. Thats one rejuv compared to potentially 3+ (witthout logs, its hard to say how to make it easier). Even with 10 minute kills, I can alternate Tree and tranq on each platform. Tranq the last 15ish % of the first platform, pop tree for the second platform and slowroll lifeblooms on the raid. Tranq 3rd, etc. The only time I get close to oom is when the terrors spawn, and I chaincast healing touch till ~5 seconds after they die, and its always been that way.

[Deleted]

~1800 spirit & Heart and its gg

[Shelendil]

It is still better to minimize spirit and maximize mastery, provided you can make good use of wg and efflor throughout an encounter. Ideally you cast enough rejuvs as well to end near zero mana. You should not spec out of the moonglow/furor combination until you can no longer forge spirit off your gear. Genesis + spirit will provide less overall throughput than Furor + mastery. Along with that, it's best to stick to throughput trinkets and 4pc T12 as long as possible. I used a minimum spirit build until heroic Ultraxion.

If you find you're going oom, take the following steps until you find the regen level that is appropriate:
1. Maximize innervate usage and any mana tide or hymn of hope cooldowns available
2. Spec into Moonglow/furor with 5 points
3. Forge spirit onto gear
4. Add a regen trinket (this would be accompanied by forging spirit back off of gear)
5. Regen trinket + spirit reforge
6. 2pc/2pc
7. Swap to regen meta

Those are listed in order of biggest regen gain for smallest throughput loss. Some may find it more convenient to swap trinkets per fight rather than reforge around the current encounter.

[rnbwtrout]

you're really gimping your MP5 (hence your healing output) if you don't take 3/3 furor and get a spirit stacking trinket. my druid has the same gearscore as your's but im sitting at 150k mana self-buffed. why does furor/intellect matter? because of 'revitalize' and 'replenishment'. 'revitalize' gives you back 2% of your TOTAL MANA and 'replenishment' gives you back 1% of your MAXIMUM MANA.

without going 3/3 furor, i get back around 2500-2700 mana each time 'revitalize' procs, every 12sec. with 3/3 furor, i get back 3000+ mana (before raid buffs). that's a minimum difference of 300 mana every 12sec. add that to the loss from 'replenishment' if you don't max your mana and in long boss fights, that's a lot of mana you're missing out on and so you can't be as generous with your heals.

rejuv is also my highest on madness because during the blistering tenticles, when WG and SM aoe's are on CD, i cycle rejuvs on everybody. i can cycle rejuvs because i maximize my MP5 through gear/trinkets/innervate.

[Deleted]

Personally, I run 1950 spirit with LFR Heart of Unliving and I dont have any mana issues at all, I usually Innervate on third Power Torrent so basically after each platform, in ideal case I end up with ~2k mana. Some time ago I was saving mana basically for nothing, so I used to end up with like 50% mana and not so big gap in healing.

With my gear, I can totally afford spaming Rejuvenation before Cataclysm (that AoE thingy after tentacle) and, same as guy above, I only have mana "issues" in the end when I have to HT spam tank.

[NightZero88]

Getting some slightly conflicting info here but I'll try to address some points.

Catokot: I actually have regular Jaws but I absolutely hate on use trinkets, I find generally I forget to hit them or use them at incorrect times. That being said, which trinket do you recommend dropping for Jaws? Both trinkets are rather helpful. I've had eye crit for 25k a fair number of times so that is nice but 1149 mastery on a very low CD is pretty nice as well since I keep harmony up I'd say around 90% of the time. Sadly, I tell my raiders to spread out but we generally always have around 2-3 people getting hit. I am still running 2pt12 as well as 3pt13 which from what I hear is the best choice until heroic t13 which may take us a while, especially since my legs are heroic t12.

Ninelol: Sadly I have yet to see that trinket drop in either LFR or our regular raid runs.

Shelendil: I was unaware of this. Last I had heard was genesis+moonglow was the ideal setup when having minimal mana concerns. So you believe 4pt12 > 2pt12+2pt13 even though no pieces are heroic (except legs which I still am using). Our raid is: Prot/Ret pally, prot warrior, fury warrior, 2 warlocks, survival hunter, 2 rdruids, ele/resto shammy and a rogue so no other mana CDs outside of innervate and mana tide.

rnbwtrout: You appear to share the consensus of others with furor though it seems to be an arguement of 2/3 or 3/3 furor. In my case if I drop 3 from genesis I could either do 3/3 moonglow 2/3 furor or vice versa. I have always heard in long fights moonglow is superior to furor. Thoughts?

Ninelol: Yes, I actually end most fights with near full mana or almost above 90% except in madness. The issue however is that nobody is ever in any case of dying, these fights just are not that challenging.

Overall: It appears I need to spec out of genesis into furor and be more liberal with casts of rejuv. I'll give that a shot this week and see how it goes. Only issues currently are should I switch back to 4pt12 or stick with 2+2. Should I do 2/3 moonglow+3/3 furor or 3/3 moonglow + 2/3 furor and finally should I reforge into more spirit or drop it and go back for mastery?

[Shelendil]

Shelendil: I was unaware of this. Last I had heard was genesis+moonglow was the ideal setup when having minimal mana concerns. So you believe 4pt12 > 2pt12+2pt13 even though no pieces are heroic (except legs which I still am using). Our raid is: Prot/Ret pally, prot warrior, fury warrior, 2 warlocks, survival hunter, 2 rdruids, ele/resto shammy and a rogue so no other mana CDs outside of innervate and mana tide.

Genesis is considered when you have removed all sources of regen and still have too much. You are not forging out of all your spirit and using 2pc/2pc, which indicates you do have some mana concerns. You are getting your regen in a sub-optimal way currently, sacrificing more throughput than is necessary.

For every fight but Spine, 4pc T12 is very strong.
4 piece 378 > 2 pc/2pc 378/397
4 piece 391 > 2 pc/2pc 391/410

I would start with switching back to 4pc T12, forging all your spirit away, and putting points into Furor. If you have no mana problems, swap them back to Genesis.

[primalnightmare]

your group has a few problems that would help u alot and theres a few things you could do im a 388 ilvl resto druid this is a few things that should help your group

1. make sure you have a raid cd for every blistering/elementium bolt that hits.
2. make sure you do innervate on every platform if you do you should always be full on mana for the most part.
3. if your group has a spriest have him use divine hymn on one of the coruption is up this should never happen if it did you did something wrong.
5. in my raid we have about 6 raid cds so we rotate them
6. dont forget spriest/resto druids can use tranq/divine hymn and mana hymn if there not you should yell at them for being bad
7. 2pc/2pc is really good for this fight so is furor if your other healers priest/shaman.

if you still cant down it you should go to 3 healers 2 tanks there 2 impales so both tanks need to be good about using cds

to answer your question about spirit i have about 2200 and i finish the fight with full mana normally

if you want a WoL of our kill last night with 3 healers 2 tanks i can message you one since i cant post a link yet

[Monkeyofcode]

My guild was having issues with this 2 I had 1900 spr and The stacking spr trunk and was having mana issues while 1 tank 2 healing it. We tried various combos and what works for us is 2 tanks 3 heals. If you have low dps this might not work for you. With the 2 tanks that makes healing p2 easier as does the 3 heals so you should have a lot less mana issues. But like I said low dps would make this hard. If you have a priest try switching them to smite spec that can help and it's what got us the smoothest kills.

[NightZero88]

No spriest in the group unfortunately. Our makeup as posted above is: 2 resto druids, 1 ele shammy with resto offspec, 1 prot pally with ret off, 1 prot warrior, 1 fury warrior, 1 surv hunter, 2 locks, 1 rogue.

I know our main problem is DPS. For example, when I cleared this with another guild (3 heal 2 tank) their DPS was 289k total (64k, 50k, 45.8k, 45.4k, 44.3k, 22k, 18k) for a total of 289k in total.

Our DPS on our best kill was 49k, 45k, 44k, 44k, 37k, 36k, 35k, 22k for a total of 312k. The problem is however that if we moved the ele shammy to resto we'd lose his 45k and if the ret pally went to prot he'd drop from 37kish down 22k and we'd be 40k below the other group. Our other problem and it baffles me is even though we are doing 20k more dps than the other group they were killing bolts faster than our group. With the group makeup we have there should be no issues switches as everyone has burst but yeah..it doesn't work. If we swapped to a 3 healer 2 tank setup there is no chance bolts would be dead before they hit the ground even with the slow from time.

I'm really just looking for ways to increase my own healing since I don't have much hope for us downing madness until after the nerf. I also can't get my raiders to log on for more than once a week raiding cause there's always an issue that comes up and I've really lost my motivation to lead. But again, that's not the issue at hand. I'll try respeccing as you guys suggested and see what happens. Thanks for the help!

[Catokot]

Getting some slightly conflicting info here but I'll try to address some points.

Catokot: I actually have regular Jaws but I absolutely hate on use trinkets, I find generally I forget to hit them or use them at incorrect times. That being said, which trinket do you recommend dropping for Jaws? Both trinkets are rather helpful. I've had eye crit for 25k a fair number of times so that is nice but 1149 mastery on a very low CD is pretty nice as well since I keep harmony up I'd say around 90% of the time. Sadly, I tell my raiders to spread out but we generally always have around 2-3 people getting hit. I am still running 2pt12 as well as 3pt13 which from what I hear is the best choice until heroic t13 which may take us a while, especially since my legs are heroic t12.

Long story short, eye. With a 45 second icd its just not reliable enough to proc a big heal. Too high of a chance of it going to overhealing, and too long of a cd if a proc gets wasted. I think I usually see ~1.5% of my healing being done from the eye. Both are definitely replaceable though.

[Monkeyofcode]

No spriest in the group unfortunately. Our makeup as posted above is: 2 resto druids, 1 ele shammy with resto offspec, 1 prot pally with ret off, 1 prot warrior, 1 fury warrior, 1 surv hunter, 2 locks, 1 rogue.

I know our main problem is DPS. For example, when I cleared this with another guild (3 heal 2 tank) their DPS was 289k total (64k, 50k, 45.8k, 45.4k, 44.3k, 22k, 18k) for a total of 289k in total.

Our DPS on our best kill was 49k, 45k, 44k, 44k, 37k, 36k, 35k, 22k for a total of 312k. The problem is however that if we moved the ele shammy to resto we'd lose his 45k and if the ret pally went to prot he'd drop from 37kish down 22k and we'd be 40k below the other group. Our other problem and it baffles me is even though we are doing 20k more dps than the other group they were killing bolts faster than our group. With the group makeup we have there should be no issues switches as everyone has burst but yeah..it doesn't work. If we swapped to a 3 healer 2 tank setup there is no chance bolts would be dead before they hit the ground even with the slow from time.

I'm really just looking for ways to increase my own healing since I don't have much hope for us downing madness until after the nerf. I also can't get my raiders to log on for more than once a week raiding cause there's always an issue that comes up and I've really lost my motivation to lead. But again, that's not the issue at hand. I'll try respeccing as you guys suggested and see what happens. Thanks for the help!

While it might not seem lie it how your raid performs is an extension of how well you heal. What i mean by that is if dps dont switch fast enough on bolts and you have to heal it thats your mana wasted. If they dont spread properly on the big tentacle and 3+ people get hit thats more of your mana wasted. If people arent using defensive CDs on burning blood once again more mana.

Point I am trying to get to is even though you are doing more dps maybe the other group switched faster and spread properly. So next attempt try to see who isnt switching or how people spread and call people out. In a nice way obviously. Let them know that while good dps is useful. Being dead = no dps.

So that and changing your spec and reading the Resto thread should help.
but if after all that you might need to move on or move the problem players on if your the guild master.

[tangedyn]

You've switched to your Feral gear so I can't see your Resto gear.

The correct way to get the most out of sustenance and throughput is to favor mastery over spirit for stats reforging, and favor Furor and Moonglow over Genesis for talents. This has been mathematically proven.

Also you need to have 3 points in Gift of the Earthmother.

[Deleted]

Few things concerning your spec since i cant see your gear.

If you dont have to cleanse then remove the point and put it in gift of earthmother since it will help you more in there. You run a spec that should be more than enough to avoid being oomed in fights. If you go with this spec reforge away from spirit into mastery for better healing output. Its better to use full tier 12 and not 2 tier 12 2 tier 13... its not worth it in my opinion esp with your current spec. Full tier bonus is helpful since in madness you spread so healing nearby targets with effl is better (even in yor should be ok to keep swiftmend in tank and also be able to heal nearby targets attacking mana void.

Esp in 10man normal content you should't have issues if you use first innervate at 70% mana . If your dps is bad and fights take longer using an innervate early can mean even using innervate 3 times (first innervate at 30 to 45secs second at aroudn 4mins and last at around 7mins if the fight goes for that long)

I dont like normal jaws and think even 390 heart of unliving trinket is better for people with mana issues since its intellect and 780 spirit up through the whole fight without having to keep your eye on any cd. I use a 378 trinket because i love the proc rate and intellect -->foul gift of demo lord and even if i get other heroic trinkets i think i will keep this . I found amazing to have 34% mastery up for for 35-40% duration of the fights.(i am sitting at 26% mastery,2155 haste,19.4% crit)

Since i am doing 25man (heroic content currently) i will try furor this week in fights to see if it helps output or not (for mana moonglow + furor is best choice but not for output). I will try to run with 3/3 genesis and 2/2 furor. I will report back if i can manage not to go oomed..since i am using regrowth alot (have 3/3 seeds and nb).

Also dont use healing touch unless on clearcasting...very weak spell and for me naturalist talent 2/2 is a waste of 2 points , but that is my personal opinion.

[NightZero88]

Apologies for that, I was soloing stonecore for the mount. I switched my spec back and my gear.

I have made the majority of the changes recommended. Dropped genesis and switched over into a 3/3 moonglow, 2/3 furor and then reforged spirit into mastery. Am currently running 135k mana unbuffed, 4pt12, 18.67% mastery, 20.30% crit and at the haste cap (slightly over actually). I'll see how this goes tomorrow when we raid again. Also am going to attempt to try jaws on madness and see how that helps.

Apostoloss: We run the majority of our fights with 2 resto druids so that point in cleanse is helpful to me. Also, I've always found GotEM as a rather worthless talent because I never let LB expire and 5% on a rejuv is fairly low if I recall, only being like 2-4k.

[tangedyn]

AApostoloss: We run the majority of our fights with 2 resto druids so that point in cleanse is helpful to me. Also, I've always found GotEM as a rather worthless talent because I never let LB expire and 5% on a rejuv is fairly low if I recall, only being like 2-4k.

And yet you put 1 talent point into Blessing of the Grove for the not-quite-2% (actually closer to 1% because of additive stacking) but choose not to take a 5% (per talent) increase to Rejuvenation that stacks multiplicatively (which means you actually get the full 5%). Do you seriously think Blessing of the Grove, Living Seed and Nature's Bounty are better than Gift of the Earthmother?

[Catokot]

Few things concerning your spec since i cant see your gear.
I dont like normal jaws and think even 390 heart of unliving trinket is better for people with mana issues since its intellect and 780 spirit up through the whole fight without having to keep your eye on any cd. I use a 378 trinket because i love the proc rate and intellect -->foul gift of demo lord and even if i get other heroic trinkets i think i will keep this . I found amazing to have 34% mastery up for for 35-40% duration of the fights.(i am sitting at 26% mastery,2155 haste,19.4% crit)

Jaws is a 93 int increase over HoU (378-390), and in a 25 hc environment 15 spells during the proc duration should be very doable. Thats 11,550 mana every 2 minutes, or 481 mp5. Can't use it on cd, but its pretty close, so we'll round to 400 mp5 to account for delaying the use. 780 spirit depending on your gear should be roughly 450 mp5, so we gain 50 mp5 over Jaws. 50 mp5 vs 93 int sounds like a no brainer to me. I'll stick with jaws :P.

FGotDL is a pretty bad trinket. Yes, its the best available outside of raiding, but we don't have many options. If you use it over any ds trinkets, you should probably change that. Its an 8% increase in mastery, with a 40% uptime tops. Can't really argue procs are wasted though, since all our choices are proc trinkets except jaws. This makes the trinket worth an average of 3.2% extra bonus from our mastery, which is an additive bonus to the rest of our healing, while windward heart (raid finder) was found to account for more of our total healing done than that.

Also, if I may ask, why waste the extra 150 secondaries in haste? Thats almost a full % of crit.

[Deleted]

I have 2155 haste because i cant reforge away anymore.. in order to use maw i had to go with that haste trinket and reforge it away (mastery) . Else i will be at 2000 haste max (using jaws or other trinket with passive intellect) -- in case you checked my armory.

So not much i can do if i want to use maw in raids ( i had 391 heroic two hand staff before ). Plus as i said in other topic dont think its that bad since this way i am on 26% mastery and i can always get crit from raid buffed ( i am doing 25man). I do want 20% crit but 19.04%-19.44% is still ok.

I do value crit but also believe its based on chance while haste and mastery are not.

p.s. update found a way to reforge haste away and increase crit now. I neglected something.

[tangedyn]

One of several ways to get there: