Token Tears and Rare Weapon drop: a Raiding Loot Proposal

[Grym]

Just at least be happy that at least all bosses WILL drop gear, while RNG might not be on your side at least something always drops.

There are MMO out there that, bosses don't even 100% drop items, you can spend 45min killing this boss with 25 people and in the end nothing drops. When finally something drops it isn't what you needed.

[Scariot]

It's a nice idea but it will never happen.

Artificial gating extends the relevancy content. Say you need to kill a boss with an absolutely unforgiving DPS requirement... which means you need upgrades from previous bosses. If RNG doesn't favor you (And out of 25 players it's going to screw most folks over), you end up coming back week after week after week hoping to acquire the gear necessary to beat that boss. Rinse and repeat.

If loot distribution was fair most guilds would probably cut half the time they normally spend completing a raid tier, forcing Blizzard to pump out more content or find another method to keep them occupied in content longer.

[Nobleshield]

IMO they just need to go back to the ToC style trophy that anyone could use.

[AutomaticBadger]

It isretty good but I would rather they started quests that required you to kill a boss or do something out of raid akin to the old hunter quests. I liked those.

[Hedleyazg]

It isretty good but I would rather they started quests that required you to kill a boss or do something out of raid akin to the old hunter quests. I liked those.

The Hunter quest was fun back in Vanilla from what I was told by hunters in guild. Based on what I know of the quests; if they added something like that it would end up getting nerfed due to people complaining it is too hard for them.

[Torty]

I can't believe the very same people cry about World of Casualcraft in other threads. Gear only matters in the first 3-5 resets. Then you will get all your BiS by the time next instance is released. If you didn't get your BiS apart from maybe 1-2 items, then you are not playing good enough, and I really wonder why you should be rewarded for that.

[Hedleyazg]

I can't believe the very same people cry about World of Casualcraft in other threads. Gear only matters in the first 3-5 resets. Then you will get all your BiS by the time next instance is released. If you didn't get your BiS apart from maybe 1-2 items, then you are not playing good enough, and I really wonder why you should be rewarded for that.

Playing well has nothing to do with having the RNG drop the loot you need from each boss.

Edit - I killed Blood Queen in ICC10 Heroic 10+ times, never got the gun. Clearly I was not playing good enough.

[Torty]

Playing well has nothing to do with having the RNG drop the loot you need from each boss.

In all tiers since tier 11 (that's when the current system was implemented) I had all bis and so did the rest of my raid. There maybe were a couple of people in the raid that missed 1 item.

P.S. I actually had all BiS except the legendary for 3 specs, if that matters. I don't understand the whine about RNG loot since Cata release. If we go into Firelands now, we will dis all loot not because we get bad RNG, but because nobody needs a single item even for their 3rd offspec from any boss.

[Hedleyazg]

In all tiers since tier 11 (that's when the current system was implemented) I had all bis and so did the rest of my raid. There maybe were a couple of people in the raid that missed 1 item.

P.S. I actually had all BiS except the legendary for 3 specs, if that matters. I don't understand the whine about RNG loot since Cata release. If we go into Firelands now, we will dis all loot not because we get bad RNG, but because nobody needs a single item even for their 3rd offspec from any boss.

10 Alysrazor kills and 0 healing trinkets, clearly our raid played poorly.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I can't believe the very same people cry about World of Casualcraft in other threads. Gear only matters in the first 3-5 resets. Then you will get all your BiS by the time next instance is released. If you didn't get your BiS apart from maybe 1-2 items, then you are not playing good enough, and I really wonder why you should be rewarded for that.

Yes, because theirs a clear and definite line comparison between loot drops and whether you squeaked by with a "Hail Mary 3 people left kiting the boss the last 1%" or "We're Paragon and the boss just dies to save itself the embarassment of being beaten down by us" Its morons like you that give the hardcore mentality raiders like myself a bad name. My suggestion is you purchase some plastic GI Joes and go melt them with a magnifying glass, then perhaps you can get your sense of self-worth and entitlement without having to bother the rest of us with your narcissism.

To the OP: Interesting suggestion, however, for this to work the amount of loot dropped per boss would have to be drastically cut and I doubt the general WoW population would be willing to trade X amount of possible upgrades for 1 or 2 definite upgrades per boss.

(Disclaimer: I am not in Paragon, I simply used them as an example)

[Torty]

10 Alysrazor kills and 0 healing trinkets, clearly our raid played poorly.

I've got 24 kills on my main, some people in the guild got 28. I even got 11 kills on my priest alt. Do you really think you deserve ALL loot from the boss after 10 kills? I don't think so. You didn't put enough effort in farming this boss and expect all the gear handled to you on the plate.

If you want free loot, go LFR or normal. You can clear them in the first week and then have roughly 6 months or 24 resets to get all the gear you want. Heroics are made to bring challenge, not to gear up everyone playing this game just because these people claim they need this gear.

[Taiyoken]

@Torty

I'm a DK raiding 10s.

I have killed Ragnaros 23 times on my DK (15 normal, 8 heroic) and 12 times on my druid alt. I have not seen a Sulfuras once.
It took 16 kills before Shannox finally dropped Skullstealer Greataxe for me. I used Heroic Akirus the Wyrmbreaker for 16 weeks after FL release because I literally could not get a weapon.
Alysrazor dropped her ring after 19 kills (AFTER Dragon Soul release).
We have had 1 Dreadfire Drape in 21 Lord Rhyolith kills and we have 3 agility users in the raid.

In current tier. We have seen 0 Vial of Shadows, 0 Cunning of the Cruel. We have killed all bosses able to drop these items since our first week.

We've had weeks of FL where ONLY Conqueror would drop. Our Paladin had enough tokens to make 5 sets of gear, while our Vanq was struggling to piece together 4 piece 391 tier.

We are not the best guild (world ~1000), but we farmed FL heroics for a long time BEFORE DRAGON SOUL and we still did not get the best loot available. We were 6/7 in 5 weeks of Heroic release (pre nerf), but this doesn't matter because neither the normal or heroic version of best in slot gear has dropped.

How much better should we be playing?

[Ryve]

I don't know why I still bother but...you were having p2 daggers just about the time the first legendaries were complete - give or take half an id. And I used a current example - the same goes for the staff as well since for every caster you have in a 10 man group you likely have three in a 25 man. Most 25 man guilds simply had the advantage of being able to farm them in 10 mans as well because they have and need the big rosters. In the previous tier I would have given you right though on the gearing way faster issue but with the current token situation it simply isn't true anymore.

Faster is still faster, funnily enough. Also, many of the 25 many guilds I know farmed legendaries running as many 25 mans as they could, because it was so much damn faster. Only the ones who didn't have the option of 25 man alt runs used 10s.

You seem to be completely blind to the fact that tier takes up 4 slots, and you have 16 slots total. Even if VP gear makes up another 4 of your BiS slots you're complaining that you're not filling 4 of your slots fast enough when you have a huge advantage with the other 8 slots/off set pieces/can use raid finder to maintain se t bonuses. Your point simply is not valid in claiming 25 mans are at a disadvantage with gearing.

I've got 24 kills on my main, some people in the guild got 28. I even got 11 kills on my priest alt. Do you really think you deserve ALL loot from the boss after 10 kills? I don't think so. You didn't put enough effort in farming this boss and expect all the gear handled to you on the plate.

If you want free loot, go LFR or normal. You can clear them in the first week and then have roughly 6 months or 24 resets to get all the gear you want. Heroics are made to bring challenge, not to gear up everyone playing this game just because these people claim they need this gear.

Across all toons, I've lost all count of 10 man Rag kills. Never once saw any level of Sulfuras drop. RNG is random.

[Zeta333]

Try doing the same boss for an entire content patch and only ever seeing the same tier token.

Then go 25man, i hate seeing people praise 10mans and how so wonderfull they are in one thread then bitch about loot drops in another, If you dont like what loot 10s are giving you go join a 25man guild.


Not a fan of OPs ideas, all i want from blizz is for there to be a heroic version of somthing for every slot [ belts for hunters last tier anyone?] and for them to put the Guns back into raiding since all we seem to have are bows and crossbows.

[Pokty]

I don't understand the whine about RNG loot since Cata release.

It's because you do 25 man that you don't understand. Loot IS very random in 10 man, and it's not uncommon that an item simply doesn't drop even after 20 kills. Whining about it on the other hand is a different matter... you pretty much hope that you can get all your heroic tier tokens for your main spec and at least a weapon, even if it's not the one you really want.

[LaplaceNoMa]

It is already easier to gear up in 10mans...
Anyways I think the way and speed loot is distributed is absolutely fine although I the that other idea for the other slots is somewhat neat.

Are you serious? I'm not even talking about the fact that there's simply LESS loot (25man drops exactly 3 times more loot while having 2.5 more players and the same amount of tanks - 10man drops as much tank/str loot as 25man even though almost no one needs it in 10man due to inability to have a pure str dps without having problems), it's more about having to disenchant a lot of crap all the time. Let's say 10 weeks pass, a 25man raid is equiped with 60% of the BiS items and about 5% of loot is being disenchanted. At the same moment, a 10man raid is equiped with 35% of the BiS items and disenchants about 30% of all loot.

That's how it works.

[Gandrake]

I think its a decent idea, however I also think that people will gear up too quickly.

quick is better than never.

But obviously, if Blizzard did implement it, it would probably take about as long as it does to get enough points in a season to get a T1 PvP weapon.

[Fiana]

We don't need this system.
There is no other game in the world with so much gear dropped per boss.
Try to play Lineage. Try to get item with 0.001% drop(Its not a joke, its real number for a lot of items).

You have 6 guaranteed items from every boss. From 8 bosses per week. Thats 48 items, 2 items per player. This content patch is going to last for 6 month = 24 weeks. Its almost impossible that the item you need will never drop. EVERYONE will get ALL the loot. Including OP and all the people that posted something here.

The perfect balance is when average player gets 14/16 of the bis loot before next content patch is out(assuming that he killed all bosses on appropriate difficulty every week). Current loot system allows everyone to get all the loot for his main spec and his offspec even if he started to play 2 month after raid is out.

Loot should be random. Loot should be desirable. Implementing any kind of guaranteed loot will make the game less interesting.
Allowing people to get all the loot they want and when they want will make them stop playing before next content patch or maybe even stop playing wow at all.

[deviancee]

No, woulda be pain in 25 mans

[matriste]

Opinion =/= fact.

Stupid token drops are literally holding our group back.

Im sure that the token drops you need would make it slightly easier to progress but generally player skill>minor gear upgrades.