PVP Loot System is way better and fairer than PVE equivelant

[Kreeshak]

The system with items dropping of bosses and need/greed system is flawed in my eyes. The reason is that the system rewards need. While someone might be extremely unlucky with rolls to be in a position to need, he is most likely less dedicated than someone who has a better item. The person with the better item either was lucky with rolls or dedicated enough to do whatever it takes, put effort and time, and be in a place where he no longer needs.

The PVP loot system awards honor points in relation on how well you do in that particular battleground. The more wins you do, the faster you will accumulate those honor points. And you are free to choose whichever item you want to upgrade from the honor vendor.

Back to PVE, the current loot system rewards need. Wouldn't it be more fair if the system rewarded performance and dedication? Imagine 2 players both on the same group or raid, both with the same skill. One of them was dedicated and put a lot of effort and has 395 ilvl gear while the second one was lazy and only has 380 ilvl gear. Those 2 players kill the very same boss and an item drops. 395 player does not need so under the current loot system he spent his time without any reward. Lazy 380 player needs and wins the loot. However the 395 player contributed more and won less than the 380 player. Is that fair?

Back to PVP the 395 player would have bigger arena cap than the 380 player. He would have more conquest points and therefore he would have gear faster than the 380 player. Justice in my eyes.

To summarize all my thoughts in one sentence, I believe effort should be rewarded instead of need which (need) can potentially reward lazyness.

[Adp]

Its like how valor points work

[Kalx]

Back to PVE, the current loot system rewards need. Wouldn't it be more fair if the system rewarded performance and dedication? Imagine 2 players both on the same group or raid, both with the same skill. One of them was dedicated and put a lot of effort and has 395 ilvl gear while the second one was lazy and only has 380 ilvl gear. Those 2 players kill the very same boss and an item drops. 395 player does not need so under the current loot system he spent his time without any reward. Lazy 380 player needs and wins the loot. However the 395 player contributed more and won less than the 380 player. Is that fair?

So according to you, only geared players get gear, while not geared players don't get gear, so they can't ever be geared to get gear... makes no sense to me
if something, players with 395 shouldn't be allowed to roll need on anything they don't really need, considering they're already geared well enough, giving chance to those low-geared players to be better

[Tomservo]

what about the players in pvp who don't help to complete the objective of the battleground?

[Spongeballs]

While someone might be extremely unlucky with rolls to be in a position to need, he is most likely less dedicated than someone who has a better item.

This sentence makes no sense.

What you're saying is that someone who is unlucky with rolls can't need on stuff? And the fact that they are unlucky with rolls makes them a less dedicated player than someone with better gear?

[Dazzy]

Get a loot system other than rolls in your groups?

If the 395 player doesn't need loot it's his decision to kill that boss in the first place.

[Glol]

The problem is that you can't quantify everything in PvE, nor really in PvP honestly. Saying, "Oh he had the highest DPS, he made the highest contribution," is not always the case. The current system isn't always "fair," but leaving it to chance as opposed to questionable methods of quantifying contribution seems more fair to me.

[notorious98]

what about the players in pvp who don't help to complete the objective of the battleground?

You mean like BG AFKers? Yeah, they certainly deserve the same access to gear as those who actually work for it. Honor points are just as flawed. There is no perfect system.

[Kreeshak]

So according to you, only geared players get gear, while not geared players don't get gear, so they can't ever be geared to get gear... makes no sense to me
if something, players with 395 shouldn't be allowed to roll need on anything they don't really need, considering they're already geared well enough, giving chance to those low-geared players to be better

Perhaps the reward shouldn't be gear. It could be performance points that can be converted into gear. I am advocating that effort and performance should be rewarded. Is there something wrong in that?

[Hedleyazg]

Perhaps the reward shouldn't be gear. It could be performance points that can be converted into gear. I am advocating that effort and performance should be rewarded. Is there something wrong in that?

How are these performance points awarded to players? This has been brought up before but there is no clear way to give out these points to people.

[Vyce223]

Perhaps the reward shouldn't be gear. It could be performance points that can be converted into gear. I am advocating that effort and performance should be rewarded. Is there something wrong in that?

I'm going to be honest here you just said the reward shouldent be gear then the next sentence said it should be. The problem with giving people gear based on performance is that how do you judge performance?

Edit:

Do you judge it on DPS/HPS/Damage mitigated?
Do you judge it on Activity?
Do you judge it on how many *insert bad thing you shouldent have stood in*?

There are so many factors in this such as say currently a hunter going BM or a mage going arcane that could affect every other dps by giving them 3% more damage but gimping their own... how do you add that to a judging system ingame?

[GhostSkull]

The O.P. has to take his chances like everyone else. The boss went down, the loot gets rolled on. If you don't like someone's performance, help them fix it or don't raid with them again.

[Kreeshak]

This sentence makes no sense.

What you're saying is that someone who is unlucky with rolls can't need on stuff? And the fact that they are unlucky with rolls makes them a less dedicated player than someone with better gear?

I believe what I said was clear. While I can understand someone might have been unlucky with rolls chances are that the majority of lesser geared players simply just don't put enough effort on their characters. Therefore the current loot system in LFG or LFR is unjust.

[Sadinar]

But you also make the assumption that geared characters are the ones that make effort; my warlock alt is a prime example of this fallacy. I have put little effort into him, I couldn't be bothered how to maximize my dps and play the class to the full benefit. As a result, my warlock is average; mediocre, I do not consider myself a good warlock. However, I have around 393 gear. Should I then be awarded gear over someone who is, say, 385 but works very hard to make sure that they know how to maximize their class to their full potential?

Gear is not an indication of effort or worth in the slightest.

[Kreeshak]

But you also make the assumption that geared characters are the ones that make effort; my warlock alt is a prime example of this fallacy. I have put little effort into him, I couldn't be bothered how to maximize my dps and play the class to the full benefit. As a result, my warlock is average; mediocre, I do not consider myself a good warlock. However, I have around 393 gear. Should I then be awarded gear over someone who is, say, 385 but works very hard to make sure that they know how to maximize their class to their full potential?

Gear is not an indication of effort or worth in the slightest.

of course there are exceptions to any rule. This is why I use phrases like more or most likely.

[medievalman1]

I believe what I said was clear. While I can understand someone might have been unlucky with rolls chances are that the majority of lesser geared players simply just don't put enough effort on their characters. Therefore the current loot system in LFG or LFR is unjust.

I was in a guild before this last patch where I could be called upon (and was) to dps FL on my ele shaman, hunter, mage, heal on my pally, priest, druid, and tank on my dk. Should I be penalized for playing all of these classes (and playing them well) after getting them all geared to be effective in FL, since they were technically lesser geared than the people who focused on just 1 character?

[Herecius]

Perhaps the reward shouldn't be gear. It could be performance points that can be converted into gear. I am advocating that effort and performance should be rewarded. Is there something wrong in that?

This system already exists. It's called 'Loot Council.'

[Kreeshak]

This system already exists. It's called 'Loot Council.'

I am referring to the popular LFG and LFR perception that need is without question and without doubt the best criteria for rewarding success.

[reikoshea]

The corollaries this thread makes to real life are just staggering.

[Tanker]

I have wanted a system where the randomness of going a full tier and never seeing your item drop, much less win said item, is replaced. 8 bosses in DS. I find it fair that a player who has cleared the place should walk away with 1 item. Boss 1-4 drop 1 point. Boss 5 & 6 drop 2 points. Boss 7 & 8 drop 4 points. Total of 16 points. Go to a vendor, the best piece of loot costs 16 points. PPl who can only down 2 bosses suffer the penalty of gearing slowly. PPl who can full clear/partial clear gain faster. It directly rewards performance. After all these years, I have no love left for loot RNG.