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  1. #1

    4pc bonus vs. lost intellect and haste

    My raid leader thought that it might help the raid if for stacking fights like Ultraxion i equip http://www.wowhead.com/item=78768 obtained in LFR (ilvl 384). I normally use http://www.wowhead.com/item=78469 (for stacking fights i.e. Ultraxion). His reasoning is that HR is overpowered so anything to make it more OP is better. My initial thought is that there is good reasons for closer examination. If I equip the tier gloves for the set bonus I gain 20% more healing from HR. This 20% gain is at the cost of 198 haste (a concern because HR scales w/ haste) and 70 intellect. This loss of haste and intellect may very well wipe the gains i am getting from the set bonus.

    Here is my question. Comparing both items, which one really heals more in a stacked fight scenario primarily using HR interspersed w/ DL and
    WoG thrown at the tank.

    here is the fail log of our last attempted alt run.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=5877&e=6140
    and my details:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=5877&e=6140
    and finally my armory:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Gorgane/simple

  2. #2
    1. Take off any gloves you have.
    2. Take Blue orb on Ultraxion
    3. ??????
    4. Profit!

    It is really that simple. If you take blue(which I HIGHLY recommend), then you are basically given unlimited mana AND a haste buff. So your raid leader is right, go with the 4-set to increase HoR max healing instead of haste.

  3. #3
    It's not 20% anymore, it's a tooltip error I believe now it's only 5% increase

    Also, blue buff. If anyone else is taking that over a holy paladin then they are wrong.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  4. #4
    I don't have an opinion of which gloves you should use, but the set bonus is 5% not 20%. It was hotfixed some time ago, the tooltip is being fixed in 4.3.2.

  5. #5
    OK I was not considering the blue buff from the Ultraxion fight. Lets forget that fight and consider any other fight that is best fought with stacking phases. Its probably moot because of the nerf to the set bonus but i would really like to see if someone can help me with the number crunching. I am terrible with math.

  6. #6
    I am too lazy to get actually get the theorycrafting, but you should DEFINITELY go for your 4pc, and you should also keep your gloves.
    4pc should be Helm, shoulders, legs, and chest.. Gloves should be the ones in question.

  7. #7
    The Patient Maruii's Avatar
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    im personally using my helm, shoulders chest and gloves for 4piece, and then having the crafted 397 pants.

    Works out great id say :}
    Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuckless View Post
    I am too lazy to get actually get the theorycrafting, but you should DEFINITELY go for your 4pc, and you should also keep your gloves.
    4pc should be Helm, shoulders, legs, and chest.. Gloves should be the ones in question.
    I guess waht I am looking for is numbers to back the above quote up. Keep in mind that I would at this time be giving up just under 200 haste and 70 intellect for a 5% bonus to HR.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgane View Post
    I guess waht I am looking for is numbers to back the above quote up. Keep in mind that I would at this time be giving up just under 200 haste and 70 intellect for a 5% bonus to HR.
    You don't need numbers. You just need to take a step back and apply some common sense.

    Depending on the fight, HR should be making up between 50-80% of your healing. A 5% increase to that is going to be way more substantial than any minor loss in stats you take when going for the 4p.

    Dropping some 60-40ish Int and trading fairly like amounts of Haste for Crit or Mastery will not come close to touching the increase you'll get from 4p. And that without even taking into consideration the fact you can reforge out of any undesireable stats. Further, even our "undesireables" are not that far behind the others at this point.
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  10. #10
    in 10 man it isn't always worth it to use the 4pc.
    That being said Ultraxion is the perfect boss for HR => 4pc => you'd have to trade a lot more than a tiny bit of int to make nonset worthwhile.

    Also: Ultraxion is a lot easier to do with 2 healers (paladin taking X+Blue the other healer taking green or red depending on the class) than with 3 healers.
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer thunderdragon2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theholypally View Post
    It's not 20% anymore, it's a tooltip error I believe now it's only 5% increase

    Also, blue buff. If anyone else is taking that over a holy paladin then they are wrong.
    finaly some 1 that understands me my rl keeps telling me a rshammy that the holy pala is mant to take red usualy the rdruid /dpriest we have takes the blue

  12. #12
    In the end try getting tier helm/shoulder/legs and chest and use the gloves from spine. For now on fights with heavy HR use tier gloves to get the 4pc bonus. EDIT I see you already have 4pc and spine gloves so that's good

    ---------- Post added 2012-01-30 at 11:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderdragon2 View Post
    finaly some 1 that understands me my rl keeps telling me a rshammy that the holy pala is mant to take red usualy the rdruid /dpriest we have takes the blue
    Yeah he's wrong, you can tell him that and if he doesnt believe you tell him to come here and do some reading for himself.

    Paladins should always take the blue buff unless they aren't in the raid. That way, as nillo mentioned above, you can two heal the fight.
    Last edited by Theholypally; 2012-01-30 at 11:44 PM.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  13. #13
    How could you possibly not take a flat % increase to all your healing over a little haste? It is ALL your healing, Ultrax only does any notable damage in the last 2 minutes and at that point with blue buff you shouldn't be casting anything but HR. A flat % increase to HR is huge.

    With that said, your RL needs to do his research a little better. First of all there's 0 reasons to 3 heal Ultrax, even on heroic it's been solo healed. Secondly pallies are blue buff because they output by far the most HPS with it, druids are red (efflorescence double dips into red).
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2012-01-31 at 12:37 AM.


  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Joyful's Avatar
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    Just to poke my head in here and agree with most on 4p on ultraxion is a absolutely yes.

    But in general from a 10m perspective you rarely cast HR enough (or atleast i dont) to justify using tier gloves over spine gloves. But this is greatly dependent on how your group do the bosses and what you get "assigned" to heal.

  15. #15
    I was really hoping that both Firecrest and Nilo would chime in on this . thanks. So what you are both saying, if I turn the question upside down, and to be clear, is that a 70 intellect and 200 haste reduction does not nerf HR 5%. Good job pointing out reforge. I havnt equipped teh tier gloves and did not give reforging a look.
    Last edited by Gorgane; 2012-01-31 at 01:06 AM. Reason: misspoke

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgane View Post
    I was really hoping that both Firecrest and Nilo would chime in on this . thanks. So what you are both saying, if I turn the question upside down, and to be clear, is that a 70 intellect and 200 haste reduction does not nerf HR 5%
    Forget anything about 20%, the 4pc is 5% and has been for a long time. With that said, 200 haste is about 1.5% haste, 70 intellect is less than 1% of your overall spellpower. Those stats can't even come close to a 5% increase. On Ultraxion where the vast majority of your healing should be HR there is absolutely no competition. The 4pc is a clear winning on any fight where you utilize HR heavily (ie: normal Zon'ozz, Madness and especially Ultrax).

    That's not even getting into the fact that you're not losing anywhere near 200 haste like you claim. The 384 gloves have 200 crit - a stat which is actually better for Ultraxion than haste btw. And even on fights where haste is better, crit still isn't that far behind, not to mention it can reforged into haste. Going from 390 to 384 gloves is a tiny and trivial stat loss, 4pc is way better.
    Last edited by RavenGage; 2012-01-31 at 01:14 AM.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    Forget anything about 20%, the 4pc is 5% and has been for a long time. With that said, 200 haste is about 1.5% haste, 70 intellect is less than 1% of your overall spellpower. Those stats can't even come close to a 5% increase. On Ultraxion where the vast majority of your healing should be HR there is absolutely no competition. The 4pc is a clear winning on any fight where you utilize HR heavily (ie: normal Zon'ozz, Madness and especially Ultrax).

    That's not even getting into the fact that you're not losing anywhere near 200 haste like you claim. The 384 gloves have 200 crit - a stat which is actually better for Ultraxion than haste btw. And even on fights where haste is better, crit still isn't that far behind, not to mention it can reforged into haste. Going from 390 to 384 gloves is a tiny and trivial stat loss, 4pc is way better.


    sounds good to me

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgane View Post
    sounds good to me
    but you have 4 pc already, with spine gloves, so whats the concern? Thats the best way to get 4 pc.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

  19. #19
    Nillo's right about the diminished value of 4p in 10 man (stemming from the diminished value of HR in that format). I've only ever raided with a 25 man guild and so tend to forget the 10 man scenarios. I often make the mistake of assuming everyone raids 25 when the truth is not even close. Only 6.4% of raiding guilds are of the 25 man variety. We're a dying breed...
    <WHAR LEWTS PLZ HALp>
    I'm bitter by default. Don't take it personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Either give an argument, or be automatically wrong. Your choice.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Firecrest View Post
    Nillo's right about the diminished value of 4p in 10 man (stemming from the diminished value of HR in that format). I've only ever raided with a 25 man guild and so tend to forget the 10 man scenarios. I often make the mistake of assuming everyone raids 25 when the truth is not even close. Only 6.4% of raiding guilds are of the 25 man variety. We're a dying breed...
    id love to raid 25s again...10s are so dissapointing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBmNL...ature=youtu.be (#1 SSB Gold run on Bleeding Hollow)
    "Your lights will go out. The darkness will envelop you. And you will fear the shadows that move within it."

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